All these barefoot posts.....

[JFTDWS]

isn't the worst thing about putting shoes on horses that we don't give them socks to wear? surely their shoes must rub and their feet get cold?

 

[cptrayes]

OK the National Farrier Training Agency, who are responsible for the training of all those totally qualified farriers who know how to trim barefoot horses, says horses have feet.
Check out "What is farriery" on this site.

http://www.farrierytraining.co.uk/

 

[Horseyscot]

Horseyscot why can't people call it what they like its no skin off your nose if your without shoes horses ( or whatever ) are happy great no ones telling you what to do think or whatever.
But if people post threads asking questions people are going to answer surely that's good, they can call what they are doing anything they like, they can have anyone they trust trim there horses feet/ hooves how does that affect you ?
I don't remember anyone saying that people who are happy with there foot care arrangements they should change.
But if ask what do you do or how do you people will answer I don't see why that's an issue for you.

If I'm honest, you are correct, who cares what it's called. However, for some reason you need special barefoot trimmers rather than a fully trained farrier to tend to your equines hooves should you choose not to put shoes on it, and suddenly adopt the name barefoot. Whatever??

 

[cptrayes]

surely their shoes must rub and their feet get cold?

They do. Barefoot feet are ususally noticeably warmer than shod ones. They have a bigger blood supply.

 

[Horseyscot]

I think you need to question why it makes you feel so insecure that someone wants to call their horse barefoot.

No-one on this forum ever tells anyone with a sound horse with no shoes on that they need to change anything or that they know nothing.

So why does it disturb you so much?

Emm insecure? Grow up.

 

[cptrayes]

If I'm honest, you are correct, who cares what it's called. However, for some reason you need special barefoot trimmers rather than a fully trained farrier to tend to your equines hooves should you choose not to put shoes on it, and suddenly adopt the name barefoot. Whatever??

Horseyscot the reason why some people need a barefoot trimmer is because farriers are NOT universally trained to trim hardworking feet. The syllabus is quite clear. Unless an apprentice has a Master who has hardworking barefooters on his books he will never see one, never mind learn about how metabolic disease and nutrition affect many barefoot horses. Most apprentices finish their apprenticeship without ever seeing a barefoot hunter, eventer or long distance horse and are completely unaware how to manage them. Some of the really great farriers have put themselves out to learn and even taken the qualifications offered by the trimming organisations. Some of those are now reluctant ever to shoe a horse. Moorman who posts on this forum is one of them.

Until the Farriery training is sorted out, barefoot trimmers will still be needed. When the training is fixed, the horse footcare world will be easier for people to understand and better for all of us.

 

[amandap]

isn't the worst thing about putting shoes on horses that we don't give them socks to wear? surely their shoes must rub and their feet get cold?

You only need socks in boots if they rub. They don't get cold. That's another reason I'm not keen on shoes, hooves get cold and no one puts socks on.

 

[Horseyscot]

Currently anyone can set themselves up as a barefoot trimmer, potentially without holding any qualification or having any relevant experience. This is clearly a serious welfare issue. It is not appropriate for someone with insufficient training and experience to trim a horse’s hooves. There are a number of significant welfare risks ranging from laming the horse by over-trimming or poor hoof balance to advising the owner that the horse is capable of work that it is not able to do without risking harm to the feet.

That quote says it all. Night

 

[JFTDWS]

Do they make thick long socks to go in boots? Like horsey hiking socks for endurance ponies? Cos if they do them in funky knee high stripey designs I am so in. They would totally suit the highland

 

[rhino]

never mind learn about how metabolic disease and nutrition affect many barefoot horses.

Regarding the nutrition aspect, I'm shocked that the UKNHCP (did I get that right?) thinks that Dr Kellon's online course is enough. There are no assignments, and the 'exam' can be taken as many times as possible. As it's online it could be done by anyone, there is no guarantee that the candidate is sitting the exam, or that they are not busy on google at the time Results also don't seem to undergo any moderation... Basically you are 'buying' yourself a qualification

 

[amandap]

Do they make thick long socks to go in boots? Like horsey hiking socks for endurance ponies? Cos if they do them in funky knee high stripey designs I am so in. They would totally suit the highland

Never seen any but I use a pair of my long ski socks to keep my mini laminitic pony's front hooves and legs warm in minus 8 winters.

 

[bumper]

Currently anyone can set themselves up as a barefoot trimmer, potentially without holding any qualification or having any relevant experience. This is clearly a serious welfare issue. It is not appropriate for someone with insufficient training and experience to trim a horse’s hooves. There are a number of significant welfare risks ranging from laming the horse by over-trimming or poor hoof balance to advising the owner that the horse is capable of work that it is not able to do without risking harm to the feet.

That quote says it all. Night

Yup, sadly!

 

[amandap]

What nutrition course do farriers do out of interest. Never thought to ask before. As was said last night nutrition affects all horses not just barefoot ones.

 

[cptrayes]

Currently anyone can set themselves up as a barefoot trimmer, potentially without holding any qualification or having any relevant experience.

I agree with you that this is wrong, and so do most barefooters.

It is not appropriate for someone with insufficient training and experience to trim a horse’s hooves.

I agree with you. Which makes it all the more inexplicable that most farriery apprentices who qualify this year will still have been taught that hardworking horses must have shoes on; still never have even seen a hardworking barefoot horse; still have no idea how much sensitivity to grass will affect whether some horses can go without shoes; still routinely shoe every three year old that the owner asks them to shoe, without even questionning whether the horse needs shoes or not or trying to advise the owner how to keep it barefoot; still think that bar shoes are a good way to resolve horses with caudal hoof lameness, etc etc etc etc.

I wish the Worshipful Company of Farriers would get this sorted out I really do. All of us would like to be certain of who can really be trusted for our horses foot care.

 

[bumper]

I wish there was a "like" button!

 

[JFTDWS]

I'm seeing a niche in the Market here. I must set up a horsey sock shop and make a fortune

 

[rhino]

I'm seeing a niche in the Market here. I must set up a horsey sock shop and make a fortune

Bit late, haven't you heard of whinny warmers

http://www.whinnywarmers.com/

 

[dafthoss]

Not my farriers apprentice and he does a blimmin good trim. Intrestingly the farrier has trimmed his frogs a little in the past but the apprentice hasnt, neiter way made a diffrence to him but it made me wonder if he was being taught diffrently at college.

ETA if your doing pony socks yellow pony wants a set of waterproof pink sparkly ones to keep his twinkle toes clean and dry

 

[cptrayes]

I am just scanning this document. I can find no reference whatsoever to nutrition or to knowing what work a horse can do without shoes on.

http://www.wcf.org.uk/files/App 1 Diploma Examination Syllabus.pdf

 

[amandap]

I am just scanning this document. I can find no reference whatsoever to nutrition or to knowing what work a horse can do without shoes on.

http://www.wcf.org.uk/files/App 1 Diploma Examination Syllabus.pdf

Thanks, I can't either. I'm going to study it tomorrow as I find it very interesting.

 

[debsg]

Currently anyone can set themselves up as a barefoot trimmer, potentially without holding any qualification or having any relevant experience. This is clearly a serious welfare issue. It is not appropriate for someone with insufficient training and experience to trim a horse’s hooves. There are a number of significant welfare risks ranging from laming the horse by over-trimming or poor hoof balance to advising the owner that the horse is capable of work that it is not able to do without risking harm to the feet.

That quote says it all. Night

This is absolutely true, which is why people are working to set up national qualifications and regulations.
Equally, you can get fully qualified farriers, who shoe badly, fit the foot to the shoe, over rasp the wall of the foot etc etc................
A bad job is a bad job, qualifications or not, trimmer or farrier. Once you find someone that you and your horse are happy with, you hang on to them! Personally, I don't give a big rat's arse what he/she calls themselves.
Night all! xx

 

[Chavhorse]

Another one here who's horse gets a 20 quid trim by the Farrier when he comes up to trim and shoe all the other horses at the yard, except he has not trimmed him for six months as the horse is self trimming and he does not want to interfere This is the same farrier who when I arrived over from Holland with a list of special shoeing requirements, gel pads and rolled toes as suggested by my Dutch vet said "B*LL*Ks to that, lets try him on a good balancing trim and see how he goes".....The man is a god!

I do feed mine some suppliments i.e micronised linseed, Apple Cider Vinegar, Brewers Yeast and a good joint supplement but that is because he has chronic side bones at six years old.

Horse is sound as a pound on all surfaces and working 6 days a week.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I agree with you that this is wrong, and so do most barefooters.




I agree with you. Which makes it all the more inexplicable that most farriery apprentices who qualify this year will still have been taught that hardworking horses must have shoes on; still never have even seen a hardworking barefoot horse; still have no idea how much sensitivity to grass will affect whether some horses can go without shoes; still routinely shoe every three year old that the owner asks them to shoe, without even questionning whether the horse needs shoes or not or trying to advise the owner how to keep it barefoot; still think that bar shoes are a good way to resolve horses with caudal hoof lameness, etc etc etc etc.

I wish the Worshipful Company of Farriers would get this sorted out I really do. All of us would like to be certain of who can really be trusted for our horses foot care.

This kind of ill informed farrier bashing that is simply untrue. I have known many farriers over the years who have always been in favour of keeping horses unshod.
Do you honestly think farriers and their apprentices never see hardworking unshod horses ? Believe it or not, some of us have been riding such horses for the last 40 years before the Barefoot cult became fashionable.
Most farriers come from horsey backgrounds, grew up with, and still keep horses. They have a pretty good idea about how to keep horses healthy and reduce laminitis risk.
Its laughable to suggest they do not know about how sensitive some horses are to grass.

Contrast that to a friend who is a qualified trimmer. Never went near a horse til the age of 45. Has only ever owned one horse and decided to train as a trimmer. Took 3 months, mostly doing an on line course, before being a student trimmer and going solo and charging for trims. Now fully fledged, does about 3 trims a month.
Lovely person, but very novice, everything comes out of a book, has little real working knowledge.

As for the term Barefoot, I prefer Unshod because the fashion for barefoot lifestyle has made it a bit cringeworthy.

 

[LucyPriory]

This kind of ill informed farrier bashing that is simply untrue. I have known many farriers over the years who have always been in favour of keeping horses unshod.
Do you honestly think farriers and their apprentices never see hardworking unshod horses ? Believe it or not, some of us have been riding such horses for the last 40 years before the Barefoot cult became fashionable.
Most farriers come from horsey backgrounds, grew up with, and still keep horses. They have a pretty good idea about how to keep horses healthy and reduce laminitis risk.
Its laughable to suggest they do not know about how sensitive some horses are to grass.

Contrast that to a friend who is a qualified trimmer. Never went near a horse til the age of 45. Has only ever owned one horse and decided to train as a trimmer. Took 3 months, mostly doing an on line course, before being a student trimmer and going solo and charging for trims. Now fully fledged, does about 3 trims a month.
Lovely person, but very novice, everything comes out of a book, has little real working knowledge.

As for the term Barefoot, I prefer Unshod because the fashion for barefoot lifestyle has made it a bit cringeworthy.

It does vary hugely. The local guy who used to (maybe still does) do most of the apprentice training in my area was (is?) truly dreadful and his unlucky apprentices got to follow in his footsteps. Had no idea about diet, exercise or laminitis and was keen to shoe (and pad) horses as young as possible. Quite unintentionally I'm sure but he was the main driver behind me and maybe others taking the shoes off our horses.

 

[tallyho!]

This kind of ill informed farrier bashing that is simply untrue. I have known many farriers over the years who have always been in favour of keeping horses unshod.
Do you honestly think farriers and their apprentices never see hardworking unshod horses ? Believe it or not, some of us have been riding such horses for the last 40 years before the Barefoot cult became fashionable.
Most farriers come from horsey backgrounds, grew up with, and still keep horses. They have a pretty good idea about how to keep horses healthy and reduce laminitis risk.
Its laughable to suggest they do not know about how sensitive some horses are to grass.

Contrast that to a friend who is a qualified trimmer. Never went near a horse til the age of 45. Has only ever owned one horse and decided to train as a trimmer. Took 3 months, mostly doing an on line course, before being a student trimmer and going solo and charging for trims. Now fully fledged, does about 3 trims a month.
Lovely person, but very novice, everything comes out of a book, has little real working knowledge.

As for the term Barefoot, I prefer Unshod because the fashion for barefoot lifestyle has made it a bit cringeworthy.

Yes,SOME of you. Not ALL.

the world is not black and white and everyone's experience is different and they will be shaped by their experience just like I am.

I have fallen out with two farriers who lamed my horse so therefore I have an aversion to them.

Very happy with my qualified trimmer, thanks.

Why should ANYONE give a rats whether one person calls it barefoot? You are all like blinkin children, THAT'S CRINGEWORTHY!!!!!

 

[AngieandBen]

Same here Tallyho, I've got through three farriers in a year, none of which had a clue how to trim my ponies for working barefoot. Sliced the frog, dug out the sole dubbed the toes; all said if I did more that a couple of hours a week riding on roads, they will have to put shoes on ............over my dead body!

I'm very happy with my trimmer, whether its £40, I don't care, its still a small price to pay for keeping my ponies hooves in good nick. Btw a lot of trimmers do cover a huge area, mine comes about 40 miles.

 

[tallyho!]

It's good to hear that horses are being trimmed well by farriers in various places around the country. I have just learned that my old farrier (the only farrier I still get on with) now works with a barefoot trimmer. Has no qualms in calling it barefoot, even puts it on his price sheet. Charges a bit more than he does for a pasture trim.

And, why not???

Why are all farriers who do a good job trimming performance feet only charging a tenner? Are they stupid? Sorry, I like saying it how it is.

The owners they trim for are probably happy to pay £100 for a blinkin rug yet will only shell out £10 to keep the horse on all four feet??

I just think they are short changing themselves and could it be to do with that little chip on the shoulder about BAREFOOT? LOL

Integration would benefit everyone. Most of all, the horse.

 

[maisie06]

Right, so the truth is that you have one of the many, many, many horses who do it easily and have no shoes on it.

And you have one who doesn't do it easily and you don't want to find out why, you just shoe him.

Doesn't sound so great to me, sorry

I shoe him to keep him working happily he is a working animal not a pet and if he needs shoes he gets them, simples. See I KNEW this would turn into a witch hunt!!! My horses my choice. This is EXACTLY the preachy, holier than thou attitude I hate about the barefoot clan.

 

[TicTac]

What is right for some horses doesn't mean to say it is right for all. TBH I am getting a bit fed up with the barefoot/ unshod/ au natural guru's almost making me feel guilty because my horse is shod.

I'm sure at the end of the day, to keep a horse in it's natural state is better all round be it living out 24/7, rugless or unshod. But most of us aren't able to keep our horses like that because of the modern day constraints we have. ie postage size paddocks with no hedging and the necessity for road work etc etc

I have kept horses now for 40 years and never had a foot related problem that has been caused by shoeing. Yes they have pulled shoes and got the odd abscess but nothing that has been detrimental to the horse. I expect some of you will disagree but they are my horses and I would challange anybody who told me that I wasn't doing the best I can for my horses with what I've been given.

If I thought my mare would benefit from having her front shoes off ( both are only shod in front anyway) I would do it but I can tell you now that she wouldn't eat magnesium powder, be happy on restricted grazing if she went ' footy' or be happy to walk up and down a stoney road to get to our bridleways.

Like I said at the beginning every horse is different and I admire the way some people go about re-habing their horses from shod to un shod. Good for you but dont try and tell me it's the only and best way for MY horse.

 

[touchstone]

Like I said at the beginning every horse is different and I admire the way some people go about re-habing their horses from shod to un shod. Good for you but dont try and tell me it's the only and best way for MY horse.

Who is telling you that? From the barefoot(/barehoof /unshod) :rollseyes: posts I have read they seem to recommend shoeing if it suits horse and owner better.