All these barefoot posts.....

Why would I tell you? I am not here to defend or support anyone except my beliefs as everyone else is doing. I can do that, so can you.

There are clearly two camps. I fall into the barefoot camp even though I keep shod horses. This horse needs shoes. The others do not but I don't need to justify myself as to why I call them barefoot. Why does that make me less of a person than you?

Is it because the anti-barefoot camp think it should be unshod? Why? Why the hell does it matter to you? Call it bananas for all I care, and I think you'll find I do.

It's completely ridiculous how these threads descend into barefoot/unshod arguments. Embarrassing.

Rhino, I get over emotional because I am a very emotional person and I do not like everyone falling out over such petty little things and I get all defensive and judgemental. Thats not your problem though is it?
 
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tallyho! said:
Why would I tell you? I am not here to defend or support anyone except my beliefs as everyone else is doing. I can do that, so can you.

There are clearly two camps. I fall into the barefoot camp even though I keep shod horses. This horse needs shoes. The others do not but I don't need to justify myself as to why I call them barefoot. Why does that make me less of a person than you?

Is it because the anti-barefoot camp think it should be unshod? Why? Why the hell does it matter to you? Call it bananas for all I care, and I think you'll find I do.

It's completely ridiculous how these threads descend into barefoot/unshod. Embarrassing.
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It's not embarrassing it just a bit so a waste of time., but it's my time to waste !
Embarrassing is coming out the loo in the restaurant with your skirt tucked in your knickers but that's another story.
 
tallyho! said:
Why does that make me less of a person than you?
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You are reading things that simply aren't written. You are the only one throwing personal insults about.

ETA I am not judging you. I am stating my opinions on the way your posts come across. Read back what you have written -


tallyho! said:
No they do not shout! Where do you get that from?

These radicals do no such thing. It's the anti-barefoot clan doing all the shouting.

If it pisses you off, stop posting on barefoot threads? Go and start your own SHOD thread and leave the people that keep horses barefoot that you hate so bloody much alone.

call people names and slag them off and fancy pants around waving your

Barefooters couldn't really give two tosses

Your are all too far up your own backsides

instead you post derogatory name calling posts

think you are clever.
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Do you really think that this sounds rational and objective? :confused: And that's just one post of many
 
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tallyho! said:
Why would I tell you? I am not here to defend or support anyone except my beliefs as everyone else is doing. I can do that, so can you.

There are clearly two camps. I fall into the barefoot camp even though I keep shod horses. This horse needs shoes. The others do not but I don't need to justify myself as to why I call them barefoot.

Is it because the anti-barefoot camp think it should be unshod? Why? Why the hell does it matter to you? Call it bananas for all I care, and I think you'll find I do.

It's completely ridiculous how these threads descend into barefoot/unshod. Embarrassing.
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Just who is it that is so anti barefoot they are bashing those of us who have unshod horses? If you feel so strongly about these people you must know who they are Tallyho?

I also disagree that there are two camps, I think this thread has proved that it certainly isn't as cut and shut as you are trying to make out :o

tallyho! said:
Why does that make me less of a person than you?
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Oh please :rolleyes:
 
Well, the way I read it lady la la is that there is two distinct camps and a few fall in between. Perhaps I should be more in between then I wouldn't get so het up.
 
I have found plenty of advice and good photos on here that will not be found elsewhere so easily.
I had never heard of all the barefoot organisations, never heard of low magnesium problems, never thought about low grade laminitis, or how to feed a good plain diet. Never really looked at feet, assumed farrier was doing it all for me, Cavallo boots or Easygloves, etcetera.
I have selected the information I needed for my own circumstances.
My own questions have been answered by knowledgeable people, really I don't know why people whinge, we are all adults and can surely recognise the extremist views.
OK many people take off shoes and continue as before without problems.
Some horses need supplements and a transition period, they may need support and information.
Some people take shoes off, find horse is sore and put them back on, that is their choice, but they hardly gave it a chance, they may not have spent a lot of time on the research, just jumped in to it.
PS it is obvious to me when I look at most feet, that many would be fine without shoes, as long as they are trimmed. If they are to be worked they may need to be managed, but then, we manage our horses anyway, some more successfully than others.
 
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rhino said:
I am again appalled at the arrogance of certain posters who believe they are the authority on managing the unshod horse. I would never criticise anyone for carrying out their own background reading and research. Just try and be objective please, and stick to the facts otherwise you undermine the very thing you are trying to promote.

PS I don't think you'll find anyone who is anti- horses not being shod.
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I've been called much worse than appallingly arrogant before... however I personally come across I do not believe I am an expert in horses not being shod despite what others think from my posts. No point in saying this but I just wanted to, for me.

as for your ps. that is definitely not the impression I get from numerous posters. I am aware that is my perspective and that yours is different.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Some people take shoes off, find horse is sore and put them back on, that is their choice, but they hardly gave it a chance, they may not have spent a lot of time on the research, just jumped in to it.
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Or maybe, just maybe they do take their time, do spend time on the research and guess what? It just doesn't work for them! Or maybe they decide that their horse is in fact doing really well with shoes and they don't need to be changing anything.

The fact you don't even mention these as an option speaks volumes. Implication by omission :rolleyes:
 
amandap said:
I've been called much worse than appallingly arrogant before... however I personally come across I do not believe I am an expert in horses not being shod despite what others think from my posts. No point in saying this but I just wanted to, for me.

as for your ps. that is definitely not the impression I get from numerous posters. I am aware that is my perspective and that yours is different.
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If you don't believe you are an authority on managing unshod horses then what I said doesn't apply to you. FWIW I don't consider it, as I've said before.

Maybe we just move in different circles then, because every yard I've been to (either worked at or liveried on) has had a mix of shod and unshod horses - of all ages, shapes and sizes :)
 
rhino said:
You are reading things that simply aren't written. You are the only one throwing personal insults about.

ETA I am not judging you. I am stating my opinions on the way your posts come across. Read back what you have written -




Do you really think that this sounds rational and objective? :confused: And that's just one post of many
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That was in response towards a person I felt was Judging my beliefs. Not towards you.

I am not rational or objective much of the time I think you will find. I admit I can get ott. I should just stop caring.
 
rhino said:
Maybe we just move in different circles then, because every yard I've been to (either worked at or liveried on) has had a mix of shod and unshod horses - of all ages, shapes and sizes :)
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I did say posters. However, over here in my area, if a horse comes out of a field to work or be sold it is shod. That is how it is done.

Using blanket terms like some posters covers many people and like some others I can take things as directed at me at times. ;) Many on this thread have done exactly the same. ;)
 
rhino said:
Or maybe, just maybe they do take their time, do spend time on the research and guess what? It just doesn't work for them! Or maybe they decide that their horse is in fact doing really well with shoes and they don't need to be changing anything.

The fact you don't even mention these as an option speaks volumes. Implication by omission :rolleyes:
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Oh dear, sorry I did not cover every eventuality, I am not here to force people to my opinion, I don't want to force anyone to do anything, I just think people should be more open minded, not take a viewpoint based soley on their own experience which must be limited unless they are looking after hundreds of horses and in several different ways:sigh:
I have discovered one farrier near me who seems to be in agreement with me, but we don't discuss it, shoeing horse and ponies is his living, and if he started telling his customers what to do, they would go elsewhere, they want to stick shoes on and be done with it.
I am the only person I know who rides a barefoot horse, it is much safer on tarmac, but if I had to take him back to tracks with very sharp coarse gravel and muddy fields, I would probably have to shoe, or boot up every time I wanted to ride the tracks.
I am very particular to shoe every six weeks otherwise [or as recommended], I worry that the ligaments will be strained, I don't have to worry about this when barefoot and self trimming.
 
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Can someone explain to me the difference between a 'pasture' trim done by a farrier and a 'performance' trim done by a bf trimmer.

My horses are all barefoot/unshod, I prefer to use the term barefoot. They don't have a special diet or supplement and my farrier looks after their hoof care. Now my horses work barefoot. They don't compete but we school and hack (hacking is their main job) and they can cope with whatever work I throw at them. In summer we can be out for 5 or 6 hours on a Sunday meandering around the countryside and have a thoroughly enjoyable time. So the way I'm seeing it in my head is that my horses are performing (i.e. doing the job I want them to do) on a pasture trim so in the case of my horses has that pasture trim become a performance trim because it is enabling my horses to perform the job I want them to do easily.

Just confused myself but do you see what I mean?
 
Indy said:
Can someone explain to me the difference between a 'pasture' trim done by a farrier and a 'performance' trim done by a bf trimmer.

My horses are all barefoot/unshod, I prefer to use the term barefoot. They don't have a special diet or supplement and my farrier looks after their hoof care. Now my horses work barefoot. They don't compete but we school and hack (hacking is their main job) and they can cope with whatever work I throw at them. In summer we can be out for 5 or 6 hours on a Sunday meandering around the countryside and have a thoroughly enjoyable time. So the way I'm seeing it in my head is that my horses are performing (i.e. doing the job I want them to do) on a pasture trim so in the case of my horses has that pasture trim become a performance trim because it is enabling my horses to perform the job I want them to do easily.
Just confused myself but do you see what I mean?
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yes I do but I don't think it clear cut , to my mind a pasture trim is what my farrier does / did to my horses when I remove there shoes and they are on holiday .
But all trimmers don't do the same some are more interventionist than others there will be others on here who know more about this I'll be interested to see what answers you get.
Perhaps it's a marketing tag ?
 
I don't believe marketing is the driver of the barefoot movement (for want of a 'better' term.) I believe learning how to get horses as healthy and sound as possible is, along with a strong wish to challenge long accepted practices by learning from horses themselves.

Many who post pro barefoot make no money or profit in any way from posting. Doesn't sound like good marketing or even plain marketing to me but then I'm not a business person.

When are a group of like minded people considered to be marketing and when not? The marketing insult is often wheeled out in controversial subjects and it often perplexes me how non professional owners are seen to be involved in some marketing machine. :confused:
 
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Trying to be balanced and not get het up here Indy, so bear with me.

To me, a pasture trim is when a horse has the shoes removed ready for roughing off or resting or convalescing for whatever reason.

The walls are not re-prepared for shoeing where the trimming is done to fit a new shoe. I have asked this to a farrier many years ago and this was the definition.

The wall is left longer than perhaps you would see on a barefoot horse. Infact, I could probably take a photo of a pasture trim as two oldies at my yard are trimmed for pasture. The frogs are still high off the floor. This is how THIS farrier does it. Not every farrier in the whole country I am sure of that.

A performance trim tries to mimic that of a wild hoof. Of course not every single wild hoof is the same depending on the terrain it lives on so it is an educated guess on the part of the person trimming and then the horse develops a hoof it is happy with in time.

I think it was coined to try and differentiate it from a pasture trim and was first used by a farrier believe it or not.

What people forget is that the term barefoot was actually used by farriers in America.

I hope that explains it a bit more. It is obviously how I see it, I do not speak for everyone.
 
A performance trim is not so much about the trim in my understanding. It's about getting a horse physically fit enough to do the job that is asked of it and be very capable and comfortable on it's feet. Ooops, hooves. I don't believe you can trim a horse to be sound barefoot though you can trim one to help and conversely to be sore. Barefoot soundness is more about getting diet, lifestyle and level of work right for that individual horse, it's not about a trim at all really. I say the last sentence with the caveat that there are ways to trim to help horses better which should be employed along with listening to the horses response to each and every trim.
Many hard working horses may not need human trimming but they do need to be hard working often it seems to me.
 
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Horseyscot said:
My two , in my books, aren't barefoot, they're unshod. And fed and maintained as they would be if they were ( and sometimes are) shod. Who actually invented the whole barefoot thing??? :confused: it amazes me how so many are sucked in by new fangled terminology ... Never mind, I'll just go and crawl back under my stone ;):rolleyes:
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Hear Hear!
 
Lady La La said:
Good god really?! :p

You mean this could be something that barefoot trimmers might have created to make what they are doing sound more sellable?

Well I never :D:D
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It is my opinion based a study of one and bit horses ( one six months one six weeks) that what my trimmer does is incredibly simple however some seem to make it abit more involved charge more etc etc i canot judge if this performance trimming I really don't know perhaps they mean performance as in done with the horses working in mind it's not clear to me a all it's not a term my trimmer uses.
But so what if it is marketing it's a buisness after all you make an imformed choice on what service you buy based on judgement.
I am really interested in the answers this brings up.
 
Although I reluctant to involve myself in another bunfight....

As someone who posts on barefoot threads and responds to PMs and emails sent to me, please can I explain myself in order to prevent anyone putting words in my mouth? ;)

I am not an expert in anything. No one is - except the horse.

It's none of my business whether someone keeps their horse shod.

But when an owner posts on here after they've had a diagnosis with a poor prognosis that I know has been helped in the past by taking the shoes off, then in that circumstance - I will make a suggestion and point the owner in the direction of appropriate information and help - then I will duck for cover ;)

My intention is to provide another option for the owner to explore.

When someone has a horse without shoes, and has a problem - then I will look into my previous experience and try to provide an answer for them. This is a forum and anyone should take information from a forum with caution and evaluate it themselves.
My intention for posting is to prevent any horse from being in pain. If shoes are the best option for the horse - then shoes it is.

I have friends with shod horses - some healthy, some really not healthy.....but neither is any of my business.
My opinion is - unless you pay my rent, you have no right to tell me what to do with my horse. That goes for everyone else too :)

As for trimmers versus farriers - pick whomever in your area who provides the best service for you. In my little world it is my trimmer. If you are happy with your farrier - then excellent :)

Call it barefoot, barehoof, unshod, shoeless....whatever. I call it barefoot so I can shorten it to BF and so I can be called Barefoot Taliban (which always makes me chuckle)

In a new textbook on rehabilitation of the hoof - the external structure is referred to as the hoof and the internal structure is referred to as the foot.
 
amandap said:
A performance trim is not so much about the trim in my understanding. It's about getting a horse physically fit enough to do the job that is asked of it and be very capable and comfortable on it's feet. Ooops, hooves. I don't believe you can trim a horse to be sound barefoot though you can trim one to help and conversely to be sore. Barefoot soundness is more about getting diet, lifestyle and level of work right for that individual horse, it's not about a trim at all really. I say the last sentence with the caveat that there are ways to trim to help horses better which should be employed along with listening to the horses response to each and every trim.
Many hard working horses may not need human trimming but they do need to be hard working often it seems to me.
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So it's about advice not the trim.
That's interesting you see I impression whenI looked into trimmers is that some would be much more radical than the one I chose ( taking off flairs etc) and I was not comfortable with that.
 
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