All these barefoot posts.....

Performance trim ? Whats that all about ? I must tell my farrier he's been giving my lot 'performance' trims all these years to enable them to 'rock crunch' over car parks.
Or maybe its the old cob Performance Trimming himself as he zooms around the countryside. Better not tell either of them, else they'll be wanting the £65a friend was paying a trimmer.
Thankfully, no one's told them about The Barefoot Diet so far.

Pah, Parelli's old hat. Barefoot is the new buzz.
 
Tic Tac - just to pick up a point in your post. Many people seem to think that you cannot do roadwork without shoes. Probably true for most horses who have just had their shoes off - their feet may well wear down too quickly at first. Once the foot has adjusted, the growth keeps up with the wear.
My two girls do hours on roads every week with no problems.
What bugs me about the 'anti barefoot' people is the implication that we are all part of this 'barefoot movement', have chosen to take our horses shoes off like women burning their bras in the 70's, to 'liberate' them, and that we are all totally against farriers and shoeing!
Yes there are some radicals out there, as in all walks of life, but please stop tarring us all with the same brush.
Oh, Horserider, a performance trim is just rolling the edges more than a pasture trim, nothing mysterious or fancy. If I asked my farrier to just trim, he would pasture trim. It saves me work bevelling the edges on my TB's granite feet :D
And I pay £15 each. Most trimmers I know are £35 ish.
 
debsg said:
What bugs me about the 'anti barefoot' people is the implication that we are all part of this 'barefoot movement', have chosen to take our horses shoes off like women burning their bras in the 70's, to 'liberate' them, and that we are all totally against farriers and shoeing!
Yes there are some radicals out there, as in all walks of life, but please stop tarring us all with the same brush.
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Now thats the thing, I always keep shoes off my horses unless there is a specific need to shoe. The radicals on here shout so loudly that the more open minded of us are totally put off this so called new invention of performance trimming, special diets and array of boots.

Many owners and farriers prefer to keep shoes off and do so quietly and without fuss, but making people feel that they are failing because they shoe is not on. They have more recently become more PC due to being challenged in the past,but some of us have long memories and recall posters being verbally hammered because they couldn't realistically commit to the regime prescribed by some of the more excessive Barefoot advocates.

FWIW, I thought £65 was excessive but the friend went back to her farrier after finding the hours the trimmer was there for and the cost was too much.
 
maisie06 said:
Cripes no!!!!! If I take shoes off my welsh cob he walks like a 50 year old, laminitic, arthritic 3 legged donkey!!!! He just does not cope so shoes it is!! Alf on the other hand is the one you would expect to need shoes with his white feet and little TB style feet??!
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maisie06 said:
I shoe him to keep him working happily he is a working animal not a pet and if he needs shoes he gets them, simples. See I KNEW this would turn into a witch hunt!!! My horses my choice. This is EXACTLY the preachy, holier than thou attitude I hate about the barefoot clan.
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But your opening post was about getting barefoot all "wrong" which obviously you are not with him, but maybe with a more educated approach you could be equally happy with no shoes on your welsh, but it might mean taking on board some of the advice about diet and supplements and following some of the barefoot suggestions to get him sound without shoes?


maisie06 said:
According to them I'm doing it all wrong!! Alf has feet of iron, good quality horn, which goes to show people who say white hooves are weak are talking crap! He is ridden on all surfaces without a problem, yet I don't go overboard with his diet - 1 scoop of marksway hoofkind twice a day, and hay and grass - and that's it!! Apparently I should be feeding loads of various supplements and having a "trimmer" out at £45 a shot!! Think I'll carry on as I am thanks!
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cptrayes said:
Right, so the truth is that you have one of the many, many, many horses who do it easily and have no shoes on it.

And you have one who doesn't do it easily and you don't want to find out why, you just shoe him.

Doesn't sound so great to me, sorry :(
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Or you could say that she keeps both her horses in a manner that ensures they are comfortable, and happy to work :confused::confused:
So the welsh cob wasn't happy barefoot, she tried and he wasn't comfortable so she had him shod and low and behold... he's comfortable.
Fair play, I say, for not subjecting the horse to months and months if not years (in the case of some people) of being cripplingly uncomfortable all in the name of 'barefooted happiness'

I would be much more inclined to listen to your views Cptrayes, if you wern't so closed minded. Yes, barefoot is great... but there is such a thing as a happily shod horse. There is such a thing as a horse that needs shoes. There is such a thing as a horse that requires studs.

Doesn't take away from the fact that keeping horses unshod is great, just means there are plenty of occasions where keeping horses shod is great too :)
 
amandap said:
Do apprentices get experience with more than one master?
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The farrier apprentices do around here. The lads spend time with my former farrier who doesn't take on apprentices, also, farriers and their lads will often join up and work together when they are extra busy.

Some farriers here go to the vet hospital clinics with the master farrier so they can work on a horse together and usually there'll be 2 or 3 lads with them, plus vet students.
 
Horseyscot said:
If I'm honest, you are correct, who cares what it's called. However, for some reason you need special barefoot trimmers rather than a fully trained farrier to tend to your equines hooves should you choose not to put shoes on it, and suddenly adopt the name barefoot. Whatever??
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What do you about how I deal with my horses feet ?
When you say you do you mean you as in you are lumping all people who work there horses without shoes together which makes no sense.
Or do you mean you as in me in which case that's silly you don't know how I deal with my horses feet.
Since you seem interested I have a very traditional farrier he is not that going to embrace change he's a traditional hunter type shoe man.
When I took me first horses shoes off his apprentice did the trimming after a of times the apprentice and I spoke I asked lots of questions and he said I dont know.
So I asked around and found though recommendation the man who doing them now he's a low impact trimmer ( my words tring to explain ) he thinks all changes should gradual and lead by the horse and the work it's doing . I was more comfortable with that approach as I would say its impossible for his approach to make a horse sore .
I did not want someone who would something radical to the feet.
The apprentice is interested and always looks at the horses feet when he's here and asked how we are doing.
So I ask you am I better to get a man who trims horses in work all the time to do it or a farrier who admits he knows nothing about performance horses working with no shoes ?
To me it's a no brainer I have learnt a lot and I am happy end of.
 
Lady La La said:
Or you could say that she keeps both her horses in a manner that ensures they are comfortable, and happy to work :confused::confused:
So the welsh cob wasn't happy barefoot, she tried and he wasn't comfortable so she had him shod and low and behold... he's comfortable.
Fair play, I say, for not subjecting the horse to months and months if not years (in the case of some people) of being cripplingly uncomfortable all in the name of 'barefooted happiness'
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But the OP was proud of not having to feed supplements and have a special trimmer because she didn't need them, but maybe she did with her welsh. I don't think you can crow about how well you are doing and in effect slate others who are trying hard when you haven't done the same with the horse who is more problematic going without shoes. Some people will just have a horse like the welsh but still want to have as healthy horse as possible and not want to shoe so they need to do more.

There is never any need for a barefoot horse to suffer any discomfort, boots work well when shoes first come off and not everyone regards having to put shoes on as "great" for them and as not detrimental to their horses.
 
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horserider said:
The farrier apprentices do around here. The lads spend time with my former farrier who doesn't take on apprentices, also, farriers and their lads will often join up and work together when they are extra busy.

Some farriers here go to the vet hospital clinics with the master farrier so they can work on a horse together and usually there'll be 2 or 3 lads with them, plus vet students.
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That's good to know.
I see a problem with only working with one master so am glad to read experience is wider. :)
 
Clava said:
But the OP was proud of not having to feed supplements and have a special trimmer because she didn't need them, but maybe she did with her welsh.
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My point was, how do you know she didn't try?


Clava said:
I don't think you can crow about how well you are doing and in effect slate others who are trying hard
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I don't think that's at all what she did :rolleyes:

Clava said:
There is never any need for a barefoot horse to suffer any discomfort boots work well when shoes first come off and not everyone regards having to put shoes on as "great" for them and as not detrimental to their horses.
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No, there is never any need for a barfoot horse to suffer discomfort, just the same as there is never any need for a shod horse to suffer discomfort. My point, that you seem to have failed to pick up on, was that some horses are just not happy barefoot. It's life. I've seen it with my own eyes; people dragging it out for years, coming to places like this to ask for advice from people like you, keeping their lame horses off grass and following the guidance they are given only to end up with an even lamer horse. Sometimes, shoes are needed. It annoys me that some people on this forum refuse to see that.
I can see the benefits of an unshod horse, I can appreciate the science behind not nailing on a shoe and I fully appreciate the positive effect being barefoot can have on a hoses hoof. I can also see the benefit of a shoe, and I appreciate what good shoeing can do for certain horses. I also appreciate the shod needs a higher level competition horse might have. Apparently, not every one can. I find that a shame.
 
Lady la la I think that is where the element of owner responsibility comes in, the same goes for choosing who attends to your horses feet, ie not choosing someone completely unqualified.

I'm in a slightly different situation in that mine isn't going to be sound in shoes, so it was retire or shoes off. Given that if he was retiring anyway he would have his shoes off it seems a sensible route to try :). If he was more uncomfortable out of shoes despite my best efforts I wouldn't leave him like that.

Having changed from my farrier when shoeing the other beast he asked why I wasn't using the most local trimmer, he thought she was qualified when I asked her she isn't, I think she probably does a good job but I wasn't happy with that.
 
Clava said:
why would you not mention it then??.....because it would make her "I'm doing it all wrong" post pointless.
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Not really, as the 'Im doing it all wrong but it's working' was in relation to a different horse. Really, neither you or Cptrayes had any idea how she attempted to transition her welsh pony to a barefoot lifestyle. The fact is neither do I, but unlike you, I didn't jump on her for not trying hard enough :rolleyes:
 
tallyho! said:
It's good to hear that horses are being trimmed well by farriers in various places around the country. I have just learned that my old farrier (the only farrier I still get on with) now works with a barefoot trimmer. Has no qualms in calling it barefoot, even puts it on his price sheet. Charges a bit more than he does for a pasture trim.

And, why not???

Why are all farriers who do a good job trimming performance feet only charging a tenner? Are they stupid? Sorry, I like saying it how it is.

The owners they trim for are probably happy to pay £100 for a blinkin rug yet will only shell out £10 to keep the horse on all four feet??

I just think they are short changing themselves and could it be to do with that little chip on the shoulder about BAREFOOT? LOL :D

Integration would benefit everyone. Most of all, the horse.
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I wonder if farriers only charge a small amount for trimming as for them it is a basic skill, one they learn right at the start of their training:confused: Although it is a skill to balance a foot it is not IMO as skilled as fitting and putting on a shoe,plus there is very little cost in providing a trim as opposed to shoeing(cost of shoe and the cost of running the furnace,the one farrier here who cold shoes charges less than all those who hot shoe). Perhaps it is more that barefoot trimmers are fleecing their clients rather than the idiot farriers being too cheap;)
 
Lady La La said:
I would be much more inclined to listen to your views Cptrayes, if you wern't so closed minded. Yes, barefoot is great... but there is such a thing as a happily shod horse. There is such a thing as a horse that needs shoes. There is such a thing as a horse that requires studs.
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Lady La La said:
I also appreciate the shod needs a higher level competition horse might have. Apparently, not every one can. I find that a shame.
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You're not the only one. Flawed logic, half truths, exaggeration, emotive language and reliance on poor quality research does not an argument make.

And for the people who question why others join in 'barefoot' posts; it's to give a semblance of balance. There are some fiercely fanatic pro barefooters (And I'm using the Churchillian definition of 'won't change their mind; can't change the subject') who make an awful lot of noise on here, and the 'average' horse owner can quite easily be drowned out. The sheer abundance of barefoot posts would make a casual observer believe that it was far more common than it is.

It's very rarely discussed in CR, because to the vast majority of posters there (even ones competing to a high level) that at the end of the day it is really not a 'big thing'. Do what is best for your horse, but don't believe as gospel a lot of what is read on here.
 
Lady La La said:
Not really, as the 'Im doing it all wrong but it's working' was in relation to a different horse. Really, neither you or Cptrayes had any idea how she attempted to transition her welsh pony to a barefoot lifestyle. The fact is neither do I, but unlike you, I didn't jump on her for not trying hard enough :rolleyes:
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You haven't explained why she didn't mention it??? I haven't jumped on her but she has set herself up as someone who doesn't seem to think much of feeding supplements / trimmers in the quote "Think I'll carry on as I am thanks!" and yet they could (and I only say could) be the key to why her other horse failed at barefoot, "so carrying on as I am thanks" doesn't ring so true in the whole picture.
 
maisie06 said:
According to them I'm doing it all wrong!! Alf has feet of iron, good quality horn, which goes to show people who say white hooves are weak are talking crap! He is ridden on all surfaces without a problem, yet I don't go overboard with his diet - 1 scoop of marksway hoofkind twice a day, and hay and grass - and that's it!! Apparently I should be feeding loads of various supplements and having a "trimmer" out at £45 a shot!! Think I'll carry on as I am thanks!
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In their defense, I think you may have missed the main point of what many of the BFT advocate, through their own experiences.

I must admit when my horses have been unshod, I've never given a thought to their nutrition over and above ensuring that they have enough of what I consider to be the right stuff. And I've certainly never paid £45 for a trim. However, only one did well without shoes (little Welsh mare). If I could re-visit the two now that didn't do well it would be interesting to see if I could have managed them better through diet.

I've never seen the BFT talk about loads of supplements either - just one or two (not unreasonable, especially considering the amount of supplements some people feed.....).

So I don't think anyone would crow that you're doing anything wrong - you'd just be complimented for having a happy barefoot horse.
 
ester said:
Lady la la I think that is where the element of owner responsibility comes in, the same goes for choosing who attends to your horses feet, ie not choosing someone completely unqualified.

I'm in a slightly different situation in that mine isn't going to be sound in shoes, so it was retire or shoes off. Given that if he was retiring anyway he would have his shoes off it seems a sensible route to try :). If he was more uncomfortable out of shoes despite my best efforts I wouldn't leave him like that.

Having changed from my farrier when shoeing the other beast he asked why I wasn't using the most local trimmer, he thought she was qualified when I asked her she isn't, I think she probably does a good job but I wasn't happy with that.
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That's it's exactly right and how it should be I took responsiblity for finding someone I was happy with to do my boys feet when it became clear that my farrier was not interested or experianced .
For me personal recommendation and my judgement counts for more than a piece of paper approved by the government that was my judgement if the farrier had been keen to help go down the route I chose to would have been happy to go with that but it's not something he's interested in .
As its turned out its for the best I have learnt a lot from the trimmer and have access to advice to someone whos used to dealing with horses working hard without shoes I would been a bit in the dark otherwise .
They cost the same by the way .
 
Is it just me, or has this exact thread with exact same discussions and content been done before???

Seems like poor ol cptrayes keeps on repeating the same 'pro' barefoot arguments, barehoof, unshod, whatever you want to call it.

Read everything you want to on here, do further research, and make your own independent decision, that's what I did! Simples :D
 
horserider said:
Now thats the thing, I always keep shoes off my horses unless there is a specific need to shoe. The radicals on here shout so loudly that the more open minded of us are totally put off this so called new invention of performance trimming, special diets and array of boots.

Many owners and farriers prefer to keep shoes off and do so quietly and without fuss, but making people feel that they are failing because they shoe is not on. They have more recently become more PC due to being challenged in the past,but some of us have long memories and recall posters being verbally hammered because they couldn't realistically commit to the regime prescribed by some of the more excessive Barefoot advocates.

FWIW, I thought £65 was excessive but the friend went back to her farrier after finding the hours the trimmer was there for and the cost was too much.
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No they do not shout! Where do you get that from?

These radicals do no such thing. It's the anti-barefoot clan doing all the shouting. If it pisses you off, stop posting on barefoot threads? Go and start your own SHOD thread and leave the people that keep horses barefoot that you hate so bloody much alone.

Why participate If you have nothing to contribute apart from to call people names and slag them off and fancy pants around waving your "I'm a great farrier and I keep horses unshod banner".

Barefooters couldn't really give two tosses what anyone else does with their horses, however, when someone asks for help I don't see any farriers tripping over themselves to help given that all farriers have been trimming feet since Adam was a lad and are the be all and end all of horsey things.

Your are all too far up your own backsides to acknowledge people who try barefoot and to offer help. No, instead you post derogatory name calling posts towards those that DO at least offer some help and think you are clever.

Trimming ain't rocket science. I can do it and I am just an ordinary person with no training. My horse is sound. I wonder how different the world would be if trimming hooves were just like trimming tails and manes...
 
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No they do not shout! Where do you get that from?
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Actually one or two are so opinionated and evangelical in their opinions that it does put people off. And it puts me off completely. So I have to agree with horserider.
 
amymay said:
Actually one or two are so opinionated and evangelical in their opinions that it does put people off. And it puts me off completely. So I have to agree with horserider.
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Thirded. And Tallyho, you are the only one who seems to be getting overemotional.

So trimming is so easy a lay person can do it, but so difficult that most farriers can't?

Farriers are bashed for having no nutritional training yet even to qualify as a (supposedly respected) UKNHCP all you have to do is buy a meaningless online qualification in nutrition from the states?

And as I said before, some people would just like a more balanced view. Lots of horses are not shod. Only a few are owned by 'barefoot' fanatics (and yes, that's Churchill's definition again)

I am again appalled at the arrogance of certain posters who believe they are the authority on managing the unshod horse. I would never criticise anyone for carrying out their own background reading and research. Just try and be objective please, and stick to the facts otherwise you undermine the very thing you are trying to promote.

PS I don't think you'll find anyone who is anti- horses not being shod. If you can't see the difference between that and current discussions then I don't suppose there is much to be said. Much like the Parelli craze, sometimes rational thinking just doesn't apply... and common sense is just not so common.
 
Ibblebibble said:
I wonder if farriers only charge a small amount for trimming as for them it is a basic skill,
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I just paid £32 for a trim (a farrier not a trimmer). While I don't think it's too expensive, as I am happy to pay for the expertise, and he is a very good farrier, I was quite surprised to read of trims for £10/£15.
 
You say "all these barefoot posts" but the majority of them are not started to be evangelical. Often they are started by someone who would like to take their horse barefoot or just have and want help.

The thread then gets turned into an argument about barefoot which must very frustrating for the original poster who just wanted help.

I personally don't do Parelli (don't have any strong feelings either way) but I don't go and post on threads about it saying how well behaved my horse is without it if someone is asking for help.

Or you get threads are like this are started which to be provocative which is fine if you want to start a debate and people want to participate but as dressagelove says it is getting a bit repetative.
 
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