Am I not with the times?

[Queenbee]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas...-racehorse-with-amazing-potential-494226.html

Buddy??

Good little horse by all accounts on the ad... but seems over double what I and those I know would pay at 4k?

Has the ROR market suddenly spiked, have I been asleep?

 

[Charlie007]

Putting aside the fact he is Tb ( I love tb's) he is a fun safe lovely looking allrounder . That's got to be worth something??!!

 

[poiuytrewq]

Pretty certain I know the seller.
As far as I've seen they always advertise at very fair prices according to the horse.
This horse would have seen major traffic and been through very busy tourist areas.
Along with being handled by novices and probably kids. They have dogs goats goodness knows what to deal with and I'd put my life on the fact if they think he's worth that he will be.

 

[be positive]

If he is as described then why should he not be worth £4k, I think it sad that there is still such negativity about ex racehorses, if they retire sound, have good temperaments, will do a useful job they must become more valuable and be able to give someone who puts in the work a decent return, he is only 8 this year so has plenty to offer his next owner.

There are ex racehorses competing at the very top levels in the eventing world, if my memory is correct at least 1 went to Rio last year, so they should not all be written off or sold for bargain prices.

 

[Goldenstar]

I think he easily could be worth 4K if he's sound but that was until I saw the picture of him jumping which may just be unfortunate photography .
However many people don't want to jump if you can buy a quality extremely comfortable excellent hack with a great temperament whose ready to get on and go for two k then I suggest you get them bought .
A Tb is the ultimate hack nothing in the world does that job better than a well behaved TB .

 

[Slightlyconfused]

If he is as described then why should he not be worth £4k, I think it sad that there is still such negativity about ex racehorses, if they retire sound, have good temperaments, will do a useful job they must become more valuable and be able to give someone who puts in the work a decent return, he is only 8 this year so has plenty to offer his next owner.

There are ex racehorses competing at the very top levels in the eventing world, if my memory is correct at least 1 went to Rio last year, so they should not all be written off or sold for bargain prices.

This 100%

Him being a tb and ex racer is the last thing I would look at.
I'm more interested in personality, easy ride, okay conformation (is that the right spelling?) then breed which is a moot point if all the others are what you want.

I would definitely pay that if he is all they say and good hacking out

 

[Equi]

I think based on the advert that's a pretty decent price for a horse. If it wasn't a tb it would probably be higher!

 

[Sukistokes2]

Oooo myyyyyyy,

I'm on a diet

If he was as described I'd pay that.

 

[ycbm]

I'm with you OP. I think that's a lot of money these days for a horse off the racetrack, broken in before it was two, that won't live in and looks from the photos to have some pretty ordinary paces and doesn't stand right on his hind legs.

I agree with everyone who says it shouldn't be too much, but there is such an oversupply of these horses, and everyone knows they don't generally make the age other horses do. I know some do, and other horses fail early, but in general terms most OTTBs will have stopped work several years before any other type of horse, ime.

 

[Goldenstar]

IMO opinion it's just dumb to assume no tb can be worth more than 2k and it's even dumber to fail to value the safe hack enough .
You often hear people use the term hack and allrounder in a disparaging way but these horses are valuable to people and those who produce them deserve to get reasonable money for them .
Of course you would vet the horse it may or may not pass just the same as any horse Of any breed .
Far nicer to as a smallish woman to ride a TB than a cob that's wider and less comfortable .

It confuses me when people who have horses for fun come over all dealer like when they come to buy .
Of course a tb and in fact any breed of horse might not make old bones it's a chance you take but it's much more of a risk if say you want a hunter or a dressage horse for example where the horse takes much more of a pounding .
My hunter Ben raced from two to eight running numerous times on the flat hurdles and fences settling to hurdling then went on to do a bit of everything and hunt into his twenties .

 

[ycbm]

Is your tooth hurting again GS? It's a bit rude to call the OP dumb. She's only responding to what she sees around her, a market flooded with OTTBs at rock bottom prices.

I used to buy and retrain them until the mid nineties. When mandatory passports came in, and dealers stopped being able to sell them as 'part IDs', which was the favourite, I could no longer get good homes at a sensible price for them, and I stopped.

 

[Goldenstar]

Is your tooth hurting again GS? It's a bit rude to call the OP dumb. She's only responding to what she sees around her, a market flooded with OTTBs at rock bottom prices.

I used to buy and retrain them until the mid nineties. When mandatory passports came in, and dealers stopped being able to sell them as 'part IDs', which was the favourite, I could no longer get good homes at a sensible price for them, and I stopped.

I did not call OP anything I was talking generally and you know that .
I do think this whole no tb can be worth more than 2k and devaluation of good hacks is a dumb thing generally .
Loads of people want a nice safe horse to ride about and TB's can be those horses people who have got them to being that horse deserve a reasonable price for them
Pretending that all Tbs are worth the same no matter what the horse is like makes no sense .
I think for a while hacks were under valued why a sensible buyer with a decent job and perhaps a child would quibble about paying close to 4K for a horse ready to go out and enjoy riding about is beyond me .
Lots of people dont have the time ability or inclination to make their own horses it's a huge section of the market poorly served by producers .

 

[tristar]

nice horse, good age, good colour, apparently does everything well, hard to judge without vetting and riding but on paper a nice one, and who can say what he might go on to do?, or how long he may live, only mystic meg, the gamble is part of the deal with any horse

 

[Damnation]

If that advert didn't have ROR or Thoroughbred on it, what would you pay then?

Now I personally think that TB's are the best things since sliced bread. Trainable, clever and usually a smooth ride for us short legged people who don't have the legs to wrap around for big paces.

I would pay £4k for that horse. He is competing Novice dressage so a good schooling level, been off yard and sounds sensible, hacks out well and jumps up to 1m. Sounds like a nice all round fun horse for someone.

 

[Arzada]

I would pay £4k for that horse. He is competing Novice dressage so a good schooling level, been off yard and sounds sensible, hacks out well and jumps up to 1m. Sounds like a nice all round fun horse for someone.

Me too. A safe hack ie a horse who has my life and health in his hooves is easily worth that.

 

[McFluff]

Me too. A safe hack ie a horse who has my life and health in his hooves is easily worth that.

Another one who would pay that if he gave me the feel that makes me feel safe and have fun. My horse of a lifetime was a OTTB. Yes, she ended up retired at 15 and sadly eventually PTS, but that can happen to any horse. I really don't get people wanting 'cheap' when they are looking for something that is safe and fun - it takes time and skill to produce a horse like that and it costs far more to have a horse that you are too scared to ride.

 

[Whoopit]

I have ex racehorses and think they're fab but will only ever buy direct from the trainer.

That said, I never understand how anything "with potential" can command so much money - this isn't exclusive to ex-runners. They have no track record in competitions so what is someone paying for other than maybe breeding? A horse that you can get on and get walk trot and canter out of because one day it might win something?? Look at all the tip top racers that go through the sales who SHOULD be excellent based on breeding, have had multiple tens/thousands spent purchasing them on the basis of unproven potential and turn out to be flops?!

 

[be positive]

I have ex racehorses and think they're fab but will only ever buy direct from the trainer.

That said, I never understand how anything "with potential" can command so much money - this isn't exclusive to ex-runners. They have no track record in competitions so what is someone paying for other than maybe breeding? A horse that you can get on and get walk trot and canter out of because one day it might win something?? Look at all the tip top racers that go through the sales who SHOULD be excellent based on breeding, have had multiple tens/thousands spent purchasing them on the basis of unproven potential and turn out to be flops?!

It is a gamble luckily many people are happy to take the risk, someone has to buy them in order to find the potential, or not, all horses are not equal and part of the fun is bringing out the "potential" some get to the top, some not so far, some fail through injury, poor schooling, riding and some because despite being good on paper and having the correct conformation just don't do what is expected of them.

If people want a proven horse they must be prepared to pay a premium for it but there is no guarantee it will continue to do well in new hands, most horses have potential to make some progress at any age, if they are well educated, have the basics in place, are sound and willing they can continue to learn at any age so while it is a term I don't like to see in ads I don't think it unfair to use it with a horse starting out in it's second career, not sure the horse in the ad has great potential but it should be fun for someone.

 

[Lanky Loll]

Given the prizes on offer for RoR classes these days the value of a TB has definitely improved - as it should

 

[ester]

He isn't worth that to me solely on the issues regarding being stabled. I would also have wanted him to have proved himself a little more than one dressage competition, as I would any non TB all rounder for the price.

 

[WeeLassie]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/clas...-racehorse-with-amazing-potential-494226.html

Buddy??

Good little horse by all accounts on the ad... but seems over double what I and those I know would pay at 4k?

Has the ROR market suddenly spiked, have I been asleep?

So just because he is a TB do you think he sould be cheaper than if he was a warmblood, or a welsh cob?????? A good horse is a good horse and a bad one a bad one, whatever the breed. They are all individuals.

 

[ycbm]

Is no good saying 'any horse might retire early', 'my one OTTB was sound into his late twenties' etc

The problem is that if you took five hundred of them, and five hundred ordinary cross breds, then my approximation is that double the number will have some form of shoeing/foot quality/foot lameness issues, the average 'end of ridden career' will be at least five years before, and double the number will have behavioural issues (like this horse who won't be stabled, cribbing, weaving, separation anxiety, must be in the lead on a ride etc.).

It's an averages game.

People know that, and it makes them worth less, especially when there are so many of them needing homes. There's a reason why the dealers used to buy them at Doncaster and Ascot sales and throw away their passports and sell them as 1/4 or 1/8 IDx's. People have always been, rightly in my experience, wary of full TBs, this is nothing new.

If you strike lucky with a good one, you are a winner in all ways, they are such lovely horses.

 

[Rowreach]

I used to buy and retrain them until the mid nineties. When mandatory passports came in, and dealers stopped being able to sell them as 'part IDs', which was the favourite, I could no longer get good homes at a sensible price for them, and I stopped.

Am I reading this right? You used to sell ex racehorses as "part IDs" but now you can't get away with it?

 

[ycbm]

Am I reading this right? You used to sell ex racehorses as "part IDs" but now you can't get away with it?

No, but I see how you read it that way. I was never a dealer and I have never sold a horse as anything but what it was, warts and all.

But low end dealers around the North East sold Doncaster buys as 1/4 or 1/8 ID's, depending on how lightweight they were. Down South it was Ascot purchases. It was, in my experience, rare to see a dealer openly selling an OTTB in the days before mandatory passports.

When they were forced to sell them as what they were, the bottom fell out of the market for them, and I could no longer get a good home for them at a price which paid back the months, up to a year, that I had spent training them.

So I gave up buying them.

 

[WeeLassie]

Am I reading this right? You used to sell ex racehorses as "part IDs" but now you can't get away with it?

I doubt ycbm is the only one. Years ago a horse was a horse- many TBs were sold as hunters, and they made great ones, especially with the Quorn, or other fast packs with galloping country.
My friends old boss trained a team of TBs to go in harness and compete in FEI competitions ( Everyone was importing Gelderlanders, Polish Arabs and the like), he wanted an 'English Team' to compete for England.
The ones that werent quite up to the team, or didnt fit in pace-wise, were sold as driving horses. And they made great ones, one won the concours d'elegance at Windor or one of the big shows to a gig.

 

[Ceriann]

Ive just bought a horse of no particular breeding and paid a very good price for a very nice personality, well schooled, decent paces and some experience at comps. The fact she's done v well at comps is a bonus I may never use. Her lack of breeding is irrelevant to me - I bought the horse I saw and tried.

 

[ycbm]

Far from not being the only one, WeeLassie, I wasn't one at all, ever.

 

[WeeLassie]

Far from not being the only one, WeeLassie, I wasn't one at all, ever.

oops sorry- was it Rowreach being quoted........ by ycbm I must have got confused.....

 

[Pippity]

He isn't worth that to me solely on the issues regarding being stabled. I would also have wanted him to have proved himself a little more than one dressage competition, as I would any non TB all rounder for the price.

I'd (theoretically) be willing to go up to that if I felt confident on him, because a horse who's steady to hack is my dream atm. What puts me off is the stabling issues. It's not clear from the ad whether it's just 24/7 stabling he can't cope with, or whether he'd need to be out 24/7. If the latter, the difficulties of finding a yard would make me walk away.

I think better photos would go a long way towards making him look worth the money.

 

[ycbm]

oops sorry- was it Rowreach being quoted........ by ycbm I must have got confused.....

No worries, I didn't write it the best way in the world