Am I not with the times?

[milliepops]

I feel completely clueless when it comes to horse prices. Haven't had to buy one since I was a teenager but I keep my eye on ads for other people. There are a couple coming up for sale local to me which seem rather strongly priced, and for me, at 8yo this one would be too, regardless of breeding.

But horses don't really have an intrinsic financial value, do they? I see it all the time round me, people go horse shopping with a budget in mind and seem to just look at the ads that fit their price bracket. so then a horse is worth what someone is brave enough to ask for, and what someone else is prepared to pay

 

[Goldenstar]

The horse world is stuffed with dishonest people .
Passing off low end WB's imported cheaply from the continent as ISH used to be a popular thing .
It's all just dishonest shady behaviour .
Better consumer rights and mandatory chips is making life harder for low life's .

 

[Goldenstar]

I feel completely clueless when it comes to horse prices. Haven't had to buy one since I was a teenager but I keep my eye on ads for other people. There are a couple coming up for sale local to me which seem rather strongly priced, and for me, at 8yo this one would be too, regardless of breeding.

But horses don't really have an intrinsic financial value, do they? I see it all the time round me, people go horse shopping with a budget in mind and seem to just look at the ads that fit their price bracket. so then a horse is worth what someone is brave enough to ask for, and what someone else is prepared to pay

This true I am just about horse shopping .
My budget is up to 25k but I doult I will spend that as I will see horses that are nice and I would enjoy working with worth less .
It's also my experiance that nice horses are selling well and quickly ATM .

 

[Street_Skill]

IMO opinion it's just dumb to assume no tb can be worth more than 2k and it's even dumber to fail to value the safe hack enough .
You often hear people use the term hack and allrounder in a disparaging way but these horses are valuable to people and those who produce them deserve to get reasonable money for them .

Agree with this. I bought my ex-racer as a four year old and have brought him on to the point where he has taken me to several BD championships including AF and regionals. He jumps for fun and is a forward going but essentially safe hack for a competent rider. I paid £100 for him and my friend and experienced riding instructor recently "valued" him at around 5k which I think reflects (but by no means covers financially) the hard work and dedication I have put into him over the years. I'm not looking to sell him, but he's far too much horse to advertise for around the 2k mark and people would want to know what's wrong with him. However if he went up for around 5k from the sounds of it people may think this was too much money considering he's a TB. I'm sure people would be biting people's hands off for a horse of other breeding that has done what he has at an asking price of 5k, so why not an ex-racer? It can't be right surely?!

 

[ycbm]

Agree with this. I bought my ex-racer as a four year old and have brought him on to the point where he has taken me to several BD championships including AF and regionals. He jumps for fun and is a forward going but essentially safe hack for a competent rider. I paid £100 for him and my friend and experienced riding instructor recently "valued" him at around 5k which I think reflects (but by no means covers financially) the hard work and dedication I have put into him over the years. I'm not looking to sell him, but he's far too much horse to advertise for around the 2k mark and people would want to know what's wrong with him. However if he went up for around 5k from the sounds of it people may think this was too much money considering he's a TB. I'm sure people would be biting people's hands off for a horse of other breeding that has done what he has at an asking price of 5k, so why not an ex-racer? It can't be right surely?!

I don't think you'd have a problem selling a horse with that record for that money.

The horse in question has done one novice dressage competition, can't live in, stands camped under behind, and they want nearly as much money.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I have no idea if he is worth 4k but I don't think people often realise how much a good, safe, sane hack is to someone.
I primarily hack so the last thing I want is something that's a complete ******** out on it's own or near traffic. If I was looking and had 4k to spend he wouldn't be my cup of tea purely because I really prefer heavier horses but I'm sure he could be worth it to the right person??

 

[leflynn]

I'd probably pay that - good age, good height, safe sane sensible easy to keep, jumps well, moves nicely, has potential to go and do any job - defo worth a call to find out more about him and meet! Love a TB, love their brains and attitude and they do get tarred with a tricky brush but I've had that with other breeds. I hope they find him a nice home

 

[Rowreach]

oops sorry- was it Rowreach being quoted........ by ycbm I must have got confused.....

Er, no, I was querying ycbm's post but she clarified it for me.

 

[Rowreach]

I've no opinion on the value of this particular horse - or any horse really - as it's all about what someone will pay for it at the end of the day. Although the ad has been up for quite a while now, so nobody so far has coughed up the four grand.

What does interest me is that the majority of posters on this thread think that £4k for an ex racer is a fair price, whereas the other day someone was asking what their own (very similar) ex racer would be worth (didn't think we were allowed to ask that sort of thing any more) and people were quick to tell the owner that the horse wouldn't be worth more than £1.5k.

Seems odd to me

 

[ester]

That happens all the time someone told they needed to pay for a rider then sharer questioning contributions on similar horse told they shouldn't have their riding subsidied

 

[Queenbee]

I did not call OP anything I was talking generally and you know that .
I do think this whole no tb can be worth more than 2k and devaluation of good hacks is a dumb thing generally .
Loads of people want a nice safe horse to ride about and TB's can be those horses people who have got them to being that horse deserve a reasonable price for them
Pretending that all Tbs are worth the same no matter what the horse is like makes no sense .
I think for a while hacks were under valued why a sensible buyer with a decent job and perhaps a child would quibble about paying close to 4K for a horse ready to go out and enjoy riding about is beyond me .
Lots of people dont have the time ability or inclination to make their own horses it's a huge section of the market poorly served by producers .

Don't worry GS - I didn't take it to be a personal pop at me

The fact is that down here there are very few who would consider paying that much for an ex racer, its not the TB thing, although in some cases I am sure they do see TB and believe it should come with a warning sign. It is more to do with the hefty early days work etc.

I know a fair few people who would pay that and much more for a good TB, but not for an ex racer, and only a small handful of those that would pay that for an ex-racer, and only if it was something exceptional... which I am not saying this horse isn't but the advert doesn't really 'sell' it to me.

I personally, would fall in the latter category - I would pay that and more for the right horse for me, whatever breeding or background that may be - but down here, certainly I would not expect anyone to even go to view with such a price tag. Perhaps we are lucky down in Cornwall as buyers - but for that money, the horse for sale would be expected to be out jumping and doing stressage - at least 2 or 3 of both -with decent results, and if they purchased the horse (TB or not) for potential alone they would certainly be reluctant to purchase one with such a pricetag that had been raced and far more likely to go for an 8 year old TB that had not been raced.

I do agree that people are too liberal with the word good hacks, safe hacks etc... but then they are far to liberal with the word potential nowadays too. I am not saying that this is the case with the advert in question, but it is always hard to know - Its not the TB/ex-racer hate brigade down here, but people will not pay that money for a horse with that background and 'potential', with nothing to back it up in my neck of the woods. Certainly you can buy a decent, nice looking horse that is good to handle and well behaved under saddle and in traffic for less than that here.

 

[PorkChop]

If he is as good as described, then I think he is worth the money - doesn't matter that he is an ex-racer.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Far nicer to as a smallish woman to ride a TB than a cob that's wider and less comfortable .

Well, I match that (sexist) demographic, and I much prefer cobs and heavy horses, so ner!

 

[ester]

How is it sexist when we have different pelvis shapes and different hip articulations?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I'm with you OP. I think that's a lot of money these days for a horse off the racetrack, broken in before it was two, that won't live in and looks from the photos to have some pretty ordinary paces and doesn't stand right on his hind legs.

I agree with everyone who says it shouldn't be too much, but there is such an oversupply of these horses, and everyone knows they don't generally make the age other horses do. I know some do, and other horses fail early, but in general terms most OTTBs will have stopped work several years before any other type of horse, ime.

Who says all racers are broken in before they are 2yo? For all you know this horse could have been broken at 4yo as a store horse and ran once at 4 or 5yo and deemed useless so given up on quite quickly.

 

[cobgoblin]

The gushy advert would put me off more than the price...not that I'd want a tb anyway...I much prefer something wider.

 

[ycbm]

Who says all racers are broken in before they are 2yo? For all you know this horse could have been broken at 4yo as a store horse and ran once at 4 or 5yo and deemed useless so given up on quite quickly.

Nobody does, but you know as well as I do that the majority of horses which have ever flat raced are broken in in time to race as two year olds (even though some don't race until three because they are backward). He doesn't look like a store to me, he's a 16h sharks fin withered light boned horse who looks to me like a flat racer, and I made my comment on that assumption.

If I was looking to buy, those pictures of a camped under horse with not very special paces would not interest me enough at that price to phone up and ask.

 

[Leo Walker]

So just because he is a TB do you think he sould be cheaper than if he was a warmblood, or a welsh cob?????? A good horse is a good horse and a bad one a bad one, whatever the breed. They are all individuals.

They are, but that doesnt mean they are all worth the same

But horses don't really have an intrinsic financial value, do they? I see it all the time round me, people go horse shopping with a budget in mind and seem to just look at the ads that fit their price bracket. so then a horse is worth what someone is brave enough to ask for, and what someone else is prepared to pay

Thats exactly what happens. I only ever spend a tiny amount and I always find what I'm looking for. I could find the exact same thing with an extra zero on the end.

I've no opinion on the value of this particular horse - or any horse really - as it's all about what someone will pay for it at the end of the day. Although the ad has been up for quite a while now, so nobody so far has coughed up the four grand.

Because its over priced. Like it or not being an ex racer does have a negative effect on value. They are making much of the potential of this one but its conformation isnt great and I'm almost certain its not sound in the video although its not great quality. Oh and it box walks!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BN75fTmgblm/?tagged=buddytheracehorse

 

[stormox]

Who says all racers are broken in before they are 2yo? For all you know this horse could have been broken at 4yo as a store horse and ran once at 4 or 5yo and deemed useless so given up on quite quickly.

Exactly. And plenty of warmbloods are broken at 2 on the continent. And lots of irish cobs are broken at 2 and hunted at 3...........

 

[ycbm]

Exactly. And plenty of warmbloods are broken at 2 on the continent. And lots of irish cobs are broken at 2 and hunted at 3...........

And who wants to buy any of them, if they know it and can get an equivalent horse which wasn't started so young?

Certainly not me, and certainly not for the price of the later started horse

 

[stencilface]

The fact that it's a TB makes it likely to be accident prone ime. That coupled with the fact it doesn't like being in is a bad combo in my book.

I wouldn't pay 4k for it no, but then I am tight

Tbh I expect a horse for 2k to be a good hack, I don't mean a brain dead plod, but I'd expect something reasonably sensible for 2k.

 

[cundlegreen]

it's a box walker, therefore a vice that I wouldn't have in my yard. Be lucky to make 1k at Ascot sales, because of the vice. Surely better horses out there for that money!

 

[Flyermc]

i wouldnt pay 4k for him.

Im certain i can find a horse good to hack, pop a jump and have ago a dressage for alot less.

 

[Asha]

Nope, wouldn't pay £4K for him. Can't be doing with horses that stress in the stable

 

[Queenbee]

I have to say and kind of reitterate - Its not an ex racer or tb thing... despite the yak I currently own, I love and in many ways prefer my silf-like breeds! Over the years I have owned TB, TB x's, Cobs, hunters, warmbloods, exmoor's darties, and new forrests... it is essentially the horse not the breeding that appeals to me (my pelvis must be flexible! lol)

However, for an ex racer, I would want a lot more than mediocre photos, a box walker, basic manners and training and no post racing competition record for 4k - I think that is my point

 

[jumping.jack_flash]

What price do you put on a safe animal? and every animal has 'one' thing you learn to live with. . . .

 

[ycbm]

The majority of horses are safe.

It's hardly some rare trait that demands a premium in the way having a BE Novice or BD medium competition record does, is it?

 

[Goldenstar]

The majority of horses are safe.

It's hardly some rare trait that demands a premium in the way having a BE Novice or BD medium competition record does, is it?

If that were so why is it so difficult for people who are not competitive to find quality horses who hack well and safely , and it is diffcult at one time I knew many people from outside my circle who had got into riding for leisure purposes often as adults they don't want or know how to school a horse they are afraid them selves and need a horse whose 'got their back 'and they found it very hard to find a horse .
Horses who will do that job have a value and so they should .
4K is nothing to part with for a horse get that safe feeling from and that the advertised figure he will sell for less than that .
Of course most horses are 'safe ' but this horse is being marketed as being very special in the hacking area and if the ad is honest ( the poster who knows the yard seemed to think they are honest sellers ) that puts this horse in a bracket above normal can hack out horses .
I also loath the arrogance you get in competitive riders that only horses who have BD medium or BE novice can have value many riders have no interest in buying a horse who can jump 1.15 from gallop and no interest in spending hours in the school learning how to go sideways ( and sound horses that do this available at 4K are few )
The things they want to do are different and horses who do them well have value to them that they don't to riders who want to do other things .

 

[YasandCrystal]

The majority of horses are safe.

It's hardly some rare trait that demands a premium in the way having a BE Novice or BD medium competition record does, is it?

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Most horses are safe with a confident and relaxed rider. A nervous and hesitant rider can turn the calmest if horses into a bag of nerves and that is where dealers have their work cut out. How do you replicate a nervous rider?

 

[Goldenstar]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Most horses are safe with a confident and relaxed rider. A nervous and hesitant rider can turn the calmest if horses into a bag of nerves and that is where dealers have their work cut out. How do you replicate a nervous rider?

That's why this area of the market is poorly served by pro producers it's a hard thing to produce quickly and pro riders struggle to have empathy with this type of rider .
Horses who have this talent 'in them ' are special horses .