Amber Options

So another update...

Harry really likes Amber (well I guess he would say that!) and he said she has plenty of talent. He took her XC schooling at Kelsall in preparation for their first BE90 coming up this weekend and schooled her over the 100 and novice fences. Said she had no problems at all but is 'too brave' in that she just launches herself at fences without really understanding the question. So she was jumping a fence with a ditch to a table and she just over-jumped the ditch and ran at the table which is too reckless. She needs to WAIT. And pay more attention to her rider. And she also jumped a skinny arrowhead novice sized fence taking off from really silly places because she hadn't read the fence and would not stay straight. He says she is not easy to ride. I overheard him talking to someone else saying if you a trying to see a stride in a combination you just can;t because she over-jumps the first element so striding is then weird and he just chucks her the reins and lets find her own way over.

My RI has always said she's not easy to ride but I have added (for you) in silent brackets in my head afterwards because basically I am not very good! But I am beginning to realise that she really isn't that easy. Which makes me proud of what we have achieved together but is doing nothing for my getting-back-on-her nerves. I cant help feeling that eventing is dangerous enough without doing it on a gung-ho horse who won't listen to me! But I can't make any decisions till I try her again. Which I am looking forward to and dreading in equal measure I think.
 
Talented horses are often not easy but I think you may find that spending tiime with a pro riding her will help enormously in her education. It's really about having "control" and not letting her bowl on at her own pace. This is do-able, but you may need to go back to basics when you first start riding her again. Don't give up.
 
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Ambers Echo said:
So another update...

Harry really likes Amber (well I guess he would say that!) and he said she has plenty of talent. He took her XC schooling at Kelsall in preparation for their first BE90 coming up this weekend and schooled her over the 100 and novice fences. Said she had no problems at all but is 'too brave' in that she just launches herself at fences without really understanding the question. So she was jumping a fence with a ditch to a table and she just over-jumped the ditch and ran at the table which is too reckless. She needs to WAIT. And pay more attention to her rider. And she also jumped a skinny arrowhead novice sized fence taking off from really silly places because she hadn't read the fence and would not stay straight. He says she is not easy to ride. I overheard him talking to someone else saying if you a trying to see a stride in a combination you just can;t because she over-jumps the first element so striding is then weird and he just chucks her the reins and lets find her own way over.

My RI has always said she's not easy to ride but I have added (for you) in silent brackets in my head afterwards because basically I am not very good! But I am beginning to realise that she really isn't that easy. Which makes me proud of what we have achieved together but is doing nothing for my getting-back-on-her nerves. I cant help feeling that eventing is dangerous enough without doing it on a gung-ho horse who won't listen to me! But I can't make any decisions till I try her again. Which I am looking forward to and dreading in equal measure I think.
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I think the training will be the making of you both.
 
Horses are not born 'easy to ride', they’re trained to be easy (or not). That's fine if you have a dull horse or one with not that much ability, it generally works out fine if you don’t really input much to their training.
But a bright, sensitive and talented mare like your needs training to be more rideable. I have one just the same- I've produced horses to a good level before, but this one is more talented and has needed a lot of clarity in a very logical system to make her rideable. She would launch into her distances, fling herself over ditches, take strides out etc if left to her own devices.
People would now ride her and find her an easy enough ride, but that's just because of the homework put in alongside training with really good instructors.
 
Coming from someone who does absolutely nothing so my opinion counts for diddly squat your post rings quite big alarms.

While not the case for every horse "over jumping" tends to be a nervous/panic/lack of confidence tactic. That her rider/trainer is saying that she doesnt understand the questions and that is why she "launches" is worrying.

Does this not indicate a hole somewhere and that perhaps it needs to be found and remedied rather than, I dunno, "challenging" the situation over bigger and trickier fences?

Yes all horses can throw in a surprise re over jumping one element etc but that this is a very regular occurrence screams a training issue to a complete numpty like me (who doesnt know the horse, doesnt even and could be reading this all wrong).

I'm sure that the rider/trainer knows what he is doing, as do you and your RI, but having identified issues I don't understand enforcing the same "behaviours" over bigger fences. Not knowing where she might take off from over fences that are increasing in size and technicality would be a concern to me.

I would hate for anyone else or Amber to get hurt and I'm probably reading your post all wrong and have the wrong end of the stick. You're one of my favourite posters and I look forward to all your reports. In your situation I would want my money to be training A to be rideable and to *think* while jumping consistently and confidently out of a stride etc even if that meant a long slog of starting from the beginning. If a pro is having these issues out xc schooling why not step back to fix them rather than push on (& £££) to BE right now? I'm sure he'll manage to get her around safely but how does that help you?

I'm presuming that ultimately you want to be back out there on A but if youre prepping her to have some fun outings and sell then yeah of course getting her out to bE is a good tactic.
 
He knows his remit is to set her up for me and her over jumping is just her. She jumps huge over logs. He is putting her in testing situations to get an understanding of the way she is, any gaps in her education and the problems I've faced and then to educate her.

Last season we had brakes and listening issues early in the season but I put in a huge amount of effort on control and our last few runs of the season were controlled. I think this year she is fitter than ever and excited in anticipation of XC because she's not done any since August when my season ended through injury (hers).

Harry said by the end of their session she was much better. Having said that, my jumping lessons are the same. She comes out giddy then settles and does lovely rounds. I could really do with shortening the giddy stage. Or maybe she will always need to he ridden in for a long time?
 
ETA - I think the only reason I'm keen to get her out Be is that I really want someone to take her for her first run of the season as she is bound to be excited . Neither he nor my usual RI compete horses unless they are liveried with them. And basically the money will run out soon.... oh I dont know. Too many decisions!!!

I'm waffling now but I think 99% of the issue is just in my head. My usual RI knows Amber inside out and we have been working on all the issues Harry is talking about- loads of 'dressage with jumps in the way' work. And she had been going really well at home pre the broken tree. I'm on the slow path because I'm not good enough to accelerate her education. But she is getting better. Or at least she was before a pain issue developed. Harry is wanting to fix things really fast. But realistically I dont think he will change her nature. Hopefully he'll give me ideas on how to manage her better. But she will always be Amber.
 
None of this is in your head, it’s a genuine *thing* that even a pro has raised.

I had thought I’d seen a video of you (maybe it wasn’t you) going around a 80/90 XC where she looked really chilled. She didn’t look like she was over jumping at all I remember thinking she had a nice lolloping sort of rhythm.. has something changed since then or was she looking more chilled than she felt? Got fitter/keener?

ETA investing in someone competing Bog was the best thing I ever did, my issues were more around his sharpness in general (I still haven’t forgotten him teleporting at both Aston le walls and millfield in the warm ups) not the actual jumping where he’s always been very confidence giving. I wonder if this will be a similar issue to you now rather than the xc itself, concern over her exploding in a warm up after what happened. Maybe the two things need separating out in your mind a little.. not sure. Just musing.
 
Yes we have done some nice rounds - both nice calm SJ rounds and controlled XC courses at BE events. She over jumps when doing something she's not done for a while or just randomly every 10th jump or so for no obvious reason.

The 'in my head' bit refers to my fears that I am over horsed and can't ride her. Whereas in fact Harry has picked up issues we already know about and are working on and improving, albeit slowly with the odd hiccup.
 
I typed a long reply and then decided that this was the main point:

Try a different regular trainer.

Your problems are not being solved, just lessened slightly. You made it out competing but without the necessary education in you or the horse to make it a good educational, smooth experience. You have the same problems you ‘know about’. Nothing is being solved, at least not fast enough. And that is nothing to do with your natural talent. That is what your trainer is for, to teach you and your horse!

Six months is the longest it took me to sort one of mine when she had had a sharer for two years (and she had become dangerous jumping, she was so out of control!). And that is six months until she was foot perfect, no inclination to behave like that again, ever.

Just try it. However amazing someone is, does not necessarily mean they are the right fit for you.
 
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maya2008 said:
I typed a long reply and then decided that this was the main point:

Try a different regular trainer.

Your problems are not being solved, just lessened slightly. You made it out competing but without the necessary education in you or the horse to make it a good educational, smooth experience. You have the same problems you ‘know about’. Nothing is being solved, at least not fast enough. And that is nothing to do with your natural talent. That is what your trainer is for, to teach you and your horse!

Six months is the longest it took me to sort one of mine when she had had a sharer for two years (and she had become dangerous jumping, she was so out of control!). And that is six months until she was foot perfect, no inclination to behave like that again, ever.

Just try it. However amazing someone is, does not necessarily mean they are the right fit for you.
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Watching the video on your other thread, I completely agree with this.

.
 
If anyone is interested in how things are going I have put up a new blog:

https://themarewhonoonewanted.wordpress.com/2020/03/11/back-on-board/

Potted summary: I rode again today!! And she was fab. Back to the old Amber I know and love. And I really DO know her and I really, really do love her.

VRIN missed your question - sorry. My trainer is Maddy Moffett if you know her? I respect her a lot and I think she really does 'get' both Amber and me.
 
Ambers Echo said:
VRIN missed your question - sorry. My trainer is Maddy Moffett if you know her? I respect her a lot and I think she really does 'get' both Amber and me.
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Ooh, I wonder if that was the same Maddy that taught me at camp 21st of Feb at Somerford. If so I totally get why you'd want to keep her, she was just lovely - teaching a bunch of wobbly unknowns is never easy (especially with a supercob who thinks he's a stunt pony and spent a fair portion on his back legs :rolleyes:) We had a brill time though.

So glad to hear you are getting on again and enjoying yourself
 
So happy to read this update and to know you are back in the sadle and that you and Amber are in good hands - trainer-wise.
Also that riding her again gave you pleasure after the break - I and my share mare are not in your league but coincidentlly I too resumed riding yesterday and it was a big dose of happiness. Will now read your blog.
 
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