American Hunter type

[Birker2020]

I've seen three separate sales adverts lately stating the horse is an American Hunter type.

I've never heard of this termology before. One advert suggested the horse would be suitable for hunter classes in America!

Can someone explain exactly what an American Hunter is?

I'm not sure if they are scam ads.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Are they not the ones that go round like brain dead morons in a very boring lope type gate?

 

[Barton Bounty]

Looks very small at the back end i have no idea what that type is

 

[Widgeon]

*Snort*
Tell it like it is, Elf

​

I wonder whether they are UK adds targeted at the US market? Horses are SO expensive over there that it wouldn't surprise me to find people importing them. Although that kind of US focus does scream "scam" to me too

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

*Snort*
Tell it like it is, Elf

​

Well they do the bits and pieces I have seen of the classes they are like our Working Hunter classes in that you jump a course of rustic fences then do a show. Ours go round at a decent pace and travel forwards. Theirs go round as slow and as carefully as possible with their heads fixed in a half down, half stretched kind of way making them look doped up to their eyeballs (which they probably are as its legal to do that over there).

 

[LEC]

They go round on a 12ft stride patttern and it doesn’t change. That’s what the horse needs to do - even knees, 12ft stride pattern which does not deviate and excellent lead changes. The jump over every fence needs to be identical. It takes a very specific horse to do well. I love watching equitation classes as well. Fascinates me.

 

[ihatework]

It’s big bucks in the US, warmbloody types trained in a very very particular way. Tick toc slowish rhythm and a low elongated frame. Ridden in quite a forward seat. Makes most Europeans roll their eyes. Horses advertised as hunter jumpers from UK dealers are usually pretty types with a good brain but not enough ability to be competitive over a proper fence. Not something that interests me.

 

[Michen]

*Snort*
Tell it like it is, Elf

​

I wonder whether they are UK adds targeted at the US market? Horses are SO expensive over there that it wouldn't surprise me to find people importing them. Although that kind of US focus does scream "scam" to me too

Every single horse my horse friends in the USA have bought since I've been here has been imported from either ireland or europe. At least 6.

 

[Michen]

And no probably not a scam, Lauren Sapsted makes a living out of creating and selling H/J horses.

 

[Cortez]

The American hunter-jumper market is quite specialised but VERY lucrative, and has been quietly going on from here (Ireland) for more than 30 years. It takes a very distinct type of horse, and people who cater to this tend not to make it known. I have sold the odd dud trakehner (when I was in the US) into the HJ world (dud as in not a good enough mover or jumper to be either a dressage horse or SJ, but otherwise pretty and amenable), for mad amounts of money.

 

[Orangehorse]

The American hunter-jumper market is quite specialised but VERY lucrative, and has been quietly going on from here for more than 30 years. It takes a very distinct type of horse, and people who cater to this tend not to make it known. I have sold the odd dud trakehner into the HJ world (dud as in not a good enough mover or jumper to be either a dressage horse or SJ, but otherwise pretty and amenable), for mad amounts of money.

Well done!

 

[AdorableAlice]

This was sold by a top end dealer/producer to the USA in summer 2004 as a hunter jumper for £100,000. Whilst he waited to be processed and shipped he had a field accident and skinned the front of his cannons both forelimbs (he rolled and got his fronts under the post and rail). Buyer was concerned he would carry scarring and not be suitable for the USA hunter/jumper classes which are basically a cross of our hunter weight classes and working hunter classes and a decent dressage horse. Buyer withheld the balance of the purchase price until the wounds had healed. The horse healed with white scarring on both forelimbs and the buyer forfeited the deposit and withdrew.

I bought him in December 2004 for 9k with his bespoke Jaguar saddle and bridle. He was tricky in the first year but then never looked back and was rarely beaten as a middle weight, he was also a rosette machine BD. Those white scars - nothing a little bit of waterproof mascara didn't cover. He will be 30 next year and my horse of a lifetime, loved dearly and I dread the day that isn't that far away.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I have a friend here who makes their living by selling 'hunters' to America for eye wateringly high prices. Don't knock it if it's not your thing, it sure works for my friend and is way more profitable than selling to the UK or European market.

 

[Michen]

Frankly I think we could take a leaf out of their book. “Brain dead morons” is a stupid comment to make, the ones I’ve seen at the barn I (edited- WAS at) are just trained in a relaxed rhythm. Far nicer than the likes of lots of the showjumping you see in the UK, where horses are hurled around at fences. A happy medium would be ideal!

Obviously there are extremes like with any discipline and plenty of bad videos and examples out there.

 

[Celtic Jewel]

hunter jumper in the USA don’t get me wrong people want to sell to the usa because they get way more money but a lot of people who are buying from the USA try a load of horse with no interest in buying one. A lot of them are time wasters I know breeders who were massed around for weeks saying they are buying and then back out of the sale last minute. A lot of them want big fancy ish warmblood or just flashy warmbloods a lot of them buy Germany . It definitely a rich man spot over there I have american friend and anything to do with hunter jumper is crazy expensive .

 

[HollyWoozle]

I have to say I agree with @Michen - it is essentially a different discipline and the horses have a specific way of going, but often the horses seem relaxed and I prefer it to some of the jumping you see here. It’s not for everyone for sure, but if people enjoy it then fair play to them.

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

This was sold by a top end dealer/producer to the USA in summer 2004 as a hunter jumper for £100,000. Whilst he waited to be processed and shipped he had a field accident and skinned the front of his cannons both forelimbs (he rolled and got his fronts under the post and rail). Buyer was concerned he would carry scarring and not be suitable for the USA hunter/jumper classes which are basically a cross of our hunter weight classes and working hunter classes and a decent dressage horse. Buyer withheld the balance of the purchase price until the wounds had healed. The horse healed with white scarring on both forelimbs and the buyer forfeited the deposit and withdrew.

I bought him in December 2004 for 9k with his bespoke Jaguar saddle and bridle. He was tricky in the first year but then never looked back and was rarely beaten as a middle weight, he was also a rosette machine BD. Those white scars - nothing a little bit of waterproof mascara didn't cover. He will be 30 next year and my horse of a lifetime, loved dearly and I dread the day that isn't that far away.

He is simply stunning

 

[Michen]

And I say that with actual real life experience rather than some of the comments here, having spent a year at a HJ barn in America watching how they are produced.

Not my riding style, sure. But I respect what they do and how they train and you can bet it’s probably a lot less stressful on the horses than other methods.

 

[Denali]

. But seriously. American hunter isn’t the hunter your used to seeing. While I wouldn’t call them brain dead morons, they certainly do not reward expression nor are the courses the same as when I actually enjoyed it.

I find many things offensive about the US Hunter industry but you really need to treat it as its own discipline despite sharing a name.

And yes you can over charge the Americans because horse prices are absolutely insane over here.

 

[photo_jo]

Frankly I think we could take a leaf out of their book. “Brain dead morons” is a stupid comment to make, the ones I’ve seen at the barn I (edited- WAS at) are just trained in a relaxed rhythm. Far nicer than the likes of lots of the showjumping you see in the UK, where horses are hurled around at fences. A happy medium would be ideal!

Obviously there are extremes like with any discipline and plenty of bad videos and examples out there.

The one thing I would change is the way the riders throw themselves onto their horse'ss shoulder (I gather to emphasis the horse's jump), and the very heavy false tails the horses have!

 

[Michen]

The one thing I would change is the way the riders throw themselves onto their horse'ss shoulder (I gather to emphasis the horse's jump), and the very heavy false tails the horses have!

I totally agree. Still, I reckon it could still be better than the socking in the mouth and yanking that goes on in unaff SJ in the UK (and affiliated).

I actually think the lower level riders in the USA are far kinder on the horses than the lower level riders in the UK, even if they don't look as good, if that makes sense.

 

[Cortez]

The one thing I would change is the way the riders throw themselves onto their horse'ss shoulder (I gather to emphasis the horse's jump), and the very heavy false tails the horses have!

I'm afraid it's not up to you to change anything; American HJ is a discipline all to itself and pretty much no-one over here has a clue about it.

 

[photo_jo]

I'm afraid it's not up to you to change anything; American HJ is a discipline all to itself and pretty much no-one over here has a clue about it.

Absolutely agree it’s a discipline I know very little about although when I was on the sidelines this year I watched a bit on Facebook and the two points I made stand out to my ‘untrained’ hunter/jumper eye. I think you can learn something from every type of riding and I think the way they keep the rhythm is very impressive and I also think I would find it extremely difficult to go and ride like that as it would feel very different to my norm - I like to think I ride with a good rhythm but I definitely have more power (and speed!)

 

[photo_jo]

I totally agree. Still, I reckon it could still be better than the socking in the mouth and yanking that goes on in unaff SJ in the UK (and affiliated).

I actually think the lower level riders in the USA are far kinder on the horses than the lower level riders in the UK, even if they don't look as good, if that makes sense.

I know exactly what you mean - I’d feel I was riding underpowered all the time, that said I’d like that quiet rhythm albeit I like going a fraction faster to a fence!

 

[Denali]

@Michen I respect your opinion but your one year at one barn. There are many great hunter programs in the US. However, what wins doesn’t fall into that category. The Hunter barn you were at wasn’t playing at the top. It’s easy to compare the not great programs. At the end of the day, you can’t compare low level jumpers in the UK to the AA shows.

You also can’t compare the kids that ride in the UK with the US. Apples to apples, the UK kids would out ride the Americans.

@Michen dont drink the koolaide!!!! There is a lot to be learned from other people but please don’t defend this shit show.

 

[Michen]

@Michen I respect your opinion but your one year at one barn. There are many great hunter programs in the US. However, what wins doesn’t fall into that category. The Hunter barn you were at wasn’t playing at the top. It’s easy to compare the not great programs. At the end of the day, you can’t compare low level jumpers in the UK to the AA shows.

You also can’t compare the kids that ride in the UK with the US. Apples to apples, the UK kids would out ride the Americans.

@Michen dont drink the koolaide!!!! There is a lot to be learned from other people but please don’t defend this shit show.

I absolutely can compare what I've seen at low level jumping in the UK, compared to here. I didn't say they wouldn't out ride them, I said generally I think it's kinder on the horse. Those two things don't always go in hand.

It's my own personal opinion, there's nothing wrong with that

There is abuse at the top of every horse discipline in some form or another.

 

[LEC]

The kids in UK can’t walk a distance for toffee, know nothing about variation required in pace, keeping the lower leg strong and invisible aids, sit in hunting seat and don’t learn light seat etc as they are not drilled like the US kids who do Hunter derby/equitation. When you look at the kids who have won the Mcclay then it’s a list of who’s who. Australia and NZ have a very similar culture and also teach riding in the light seat and that certainly shows in their xc riding.

It’s a massive subject but there are pros and cons of both systems.

 

[Birker2020]

And no probably not a scam, Lauren Sapsted makes a living out of creating and selling H/J horses.

It wasn't that advert I was referring too Michen as being a scam there is no mention of importing to USA in the words, it was another on either Horsemart or Whicker.

 

[Birker2020]

Are they not the ones that go round like brain dead morons in a very boring lope type gate?

Isn't that because the lope gait as they call it, is a very low energy gait so the horse can cover very long distances more efficiently without tiring?

 

[Birker2020]

This was sold by a top end dealer/producer to the USA in summer 2004 as a hunter jumper for £100,000. Whilst he waited to be processed and shipped he had a field accident and skinned the front of his cannons both forelimbs (he rolled and got his fronts under the post and rail). Buyer was concerned he would carry scarring and not be suitable for the USA hunter/jumper classes which are basically a cross of our hunter weight classes and working hunter classes and a decent dressage horse. Buyer withheld the balance of the purchase price until the wounds had healed. The horse healed with white scarring on both forelimbs and the buyer forfeited the deposit and withdrew.

I bought him in December 2004 for 9k with his bespoke Jaguar saddle and bridle. He was tricky in the first year but then never looked back and was rarely beaten as a middle weight, he was also a rosette machine BD. Those white scars - nothing a little bit of waterproof mascara didn't cover. He will be 30 next year and my horse of a lifetime, loved dearly and I dread the day that isn't that far away.

He looks just my type AA, totally gorgeous