An Experiment in the Use of Constructive Criticism

[only_me]

Thanks, only_me, I'm fairly well apart from the leg problem.

I'd still swap Jup for your gorgeous boy but my OH says he'll kick me out if I take a coloured horse home.....how rude!

Yes, but you wouldn't let a little leg break get in your way, now would you?

Dad always said that Billy would look good pulling a traditional gypsy caravan - although I do believe it would then become the sports version

 

[tiggs]

You feel that your riding is suffering of late. To be even riding let alone bringing on youngsters & competing is a bloody amazing.
I'm sure I don't need to tell you this but the chemotherapy you are on has an effect on every part of your body. Chemotherapy weakens your immune system, weakens your muscles, effects your nervous system so reactions aren't as quick & there is mental fatigue. Seriously most people feeling like that would just be kind to themselves not beating themselves up for a perceived drop in riding performance
The only CC you are going to get from me is that you need to be kind to yourself, you WILL get back to where you want to be but give your body a chance to beat this b*stard cancer first!

Totally agree with Glamourpuss, please take care of yourself and give yourself time to get your strength back. I am not qualified to give cc but even to my untrained eye, I can see a big improvement from earlier in the season. Hope you come out all guns blazing next season.

 

[Baydale]

Anusol has Lidocaine in it, which is useful for all sorts of things, I've stuck it in the dogs ear and on my gums. It's just a bit embarassing to buy, and you probs want a new tube if you are going to put it in your mouth.

Sorry, siennamum, but that last bit did make me laugh, especially as Juno called it "bum cream", and it's not going anywhere near my mouth. I order it with my weekly Tesco home delivery so all embarrassment spared, other than Jup's at having bum cream put on the corner of his mouth.

 

[Baydale]

I asked for CC on Mally once and everyone was terribly nice, I took it to mean they thought my horse was awful but I was far too fragile to handle the truth
You weren't terribly scary at Oasby, but then I felt I could outrun you if necessary without too much effort

Awww, you read too much into it, or were you just shocked at people in CR being nice? I'm not at all scary, or not now I've got my hair back I'm not. Outrunning someone on crutches is nothing to brag about btw.

 

[Baydale]

All the things I do are great for core stability and are also low impact on fractured and broken bits! It depends on whether you want things you can do at home or not, because if you want 'home' stuff then I'm not your girl, sorry

Interesting about the core stuff as that would also explain the collapsing I saw....(but no-one else did so probably doesn't exist!)

Which things are those, SC, as if you think I'd dare to take up rollerblading with my track record you'd be wrong.

I do collapse, definitely, actually it's more like capsizing. I think everyone else was just more focused on other stuff, that's why no-one particularly mentioned it; either that or they were just being polite.

 

[LEC]

Is it not your bedtime yet? Goodness this introspection has made your brain very active at such a late time.

 

[mbequest]

Baydale - you'd be surprised how many useless uncareful creatures I've ridden over the years, at the
end of the day either they'll try to be careful or they won't. Your big fella looks a trier. People would be amazed how some horses will react to even the littlest of a pull off the floor. And honestly when little habits creep in they can be very difficult to change, especially if you don't have any eyes on the floor that are prepared to step up and tell you what they see.

I wanna say though, I've never met you but they way you have handled and accepted the advice on here, which has been pretty blunt, is exemplary and just shows why people have so much respect for you. Obviously you personal situation has been very very difficult but I think now you have had these little reminders on what to try and work on, being the professional you are, I bet by the end of winter you're back to your old self. And hopefully back with lots of reports again because I for one thoroughly enjoys reading the about the adventures of flying green brigade.......

A small kick up the bum......Chin up.... Big hugs..... And kick on!!

 

[Baydale]

Baydale - the best thing for core stability I've found is working on the flat and over small fences without stirrups, or if possible on a nice quiet well rounded ponio, going bareback. You'll be amazed how quickly you core improves!!

Bareback? Are you mad? I'll have a little go without stirrups and see what that feels like first - "painful" is the word that springs to mind.

 

[Baydale]

Hi
Can't offer any cc on the riding... Far more experienced people than me have got that covered.
But, have you tried either pilates or hydrotherapy for your core strength ? Are you able to see a physiotherapist who deals with sports injuries/ rehab?
Stating the obvious I know.
As for mental alertness, those bloody sudoku puzzles, (that I can never do ) ?
Kx

Thanks, Circe, I was thinking pilates might be a good option, or yoga. I know a physio who rides as she helped me when I'd fractured myself, maybe I'll give her a call. I've never even tried sudoku, but I think maybe I need something that combines mental and physical alertness, like someone throwing a ball at me. I know, I'll start playing squash again.

 

[Baydale]

Sounds to me rather like self doubt more than anything. It can't help that you've been through the mill, and had to face your own mortality. I think confidence is the key to positive forward riding and you may not recognise that you are less confident, but as soon as it's apparent it can be a downward spiral.(From the horses mouth here - I literally forgot how to ride, couldn't canter into a small fence)
I may be even worse when you are a high achiever, which you are, and when you set the bar high, without it seems, slowing down for treatments etc.
It also doesn't help if you have a horse/horses which are keen to find you out, which Jupiter seems to be. He is a machine XC but a sharp boy on the flat and hardly a relaxing ride.

I always have self-doubt but maybe the cancer has let it have more house room than it would have got ordinarily. I remember having a conversation with my chemo nurse saying I found the mental kicking worse than the physical kicking. The brain is a powerful tool and I need mine to work with me, not against me.

 

[Baydale]

Juno's a bloke?? I had no idea there WERE men on the forum! Except for Giles and MBEquest.

Apparently so. Do keep up, PF.

 

[Baydale]

Is it not your bedtime yet? Goodness this introspection has made your brain very active at such a late time.

I'm not tired, and having just done my late night feeding and ****-shovelling I'm even more awake. I might have to go and tidy some more cupboards or make more flapjack...

 

[Mince Pie]

I can agree with the bits that were mentioned about always having green horses affecting your riding. I remember, bearing in mind all of my horses have either been babies or needed serious re-schooling, when an instructor first saw me riding a horse that actually knew what it was doing - she said that if it hadn't have been for the broad Scottish accent she wouldn't have known who I was.
Therefore I agree with the advice to hop on a 'schoolmaster' and work on YOU for a change, as the horse will know what it is doing so you won't have to focus on what it is doing so much.

 

[Baydale]

We could go and kick ass (and obviously take it all very seriously and not giggle at all) at a Pilates class?

We could try, I'm not promising that I'll be able to keep a straight face. I think ISZ mentioned there being a class at Collingham village hall. I'll try and find out more.

 

[Baydale]

I would agree with this...and would add that from bitter experience you've done the right thing not posting on here...and I hope this thread helps and is not a set back.

I don't think anything on this thread could have set me back; I wouldn't have started it if I didn't think I could deal with it - masochism isn't my thing! Aside from all the handy hints, helpful messages and supportive comments it has also reminded me that there are a lot of nice people out there in HHO Land, so that's got to be a good thing, surely?

 

[scheherazade]

I'm not really qualified to give any CC as we only just got round our second ever ODE in the last couple of weeks, and that was at 80cm. I can understand the core stability thing (I had an emergency caesarean a few years ago) and found that it is also linked to your confidence levels (well it was to mine anyway) as sub counsciously you are very aware that you are not as strong / quick to respond / athletic as you used to be and so you end up riding more defensively to combat this fear. Me, my horse started stopping, badly, as a result. I have found a very good book, called In Pursuit of Excellence by Terry Orlick, which really helped me get back to where I am now (which is no-where near as good as you) but really helped me get back on track, mentally. I also I just wanted to say that your story, and the problems you have had to deal with, and the way you have taken life and all its cr@p on, is inspirational. Please keep posting, and please keep recovering. Hugs x

 

[TarrSteps]

Cameraman will be humoured for having been so good to do studs, camerawork AND walk the horse off.

I'm sorry, I didn't make it past this bit!

As we all know, I don't "do" CC (at least not until I get that paypal thing sorted and kirstyhen onside), but re the letting go/daring him to make a better shape discussion I'm happy to venture north and entertain myself building some biiiiig grids to get him, as we say in the New World, "cracking his back wide open". I'll even throw in some weird science.

And I didn't know mbequest is a boy. Where have I been? I did know about Juno, though, so do I get a point for that?

 

[Baydale]

I failed miserabley at not giggling, however I was surrounded by very serious types, that only made me giggle more

A friend and I used to go to yoga and after all the contortions and giggling we would both doze off in the final wind-down/relaxation part.

 

[doctordoolittle]

I'm not really qualified to give CC as I haven't ridden regulalry for over a year since losing my soul mate and my computer is refusing to play with video today! However it sounds like you've had some very useful advice and interestiong discussion. Sounds like you've been througha lot so give yourself a big pat on the back as someone else said!!

I think you've misunderstood the rules of HHO.

1. If you post a picture/video and ask for CC, you won't get much/any, but people will tell you how great you are.

2. If you post pictures/vids and don't ask for CC, someone will feel compelled to give you some 'helpful' advice.

3. Once one person has made a 'constructive' comment, other will feel compelled to do the same, agreeing with the first person, even if they themselves couldn't ride a rocking horse.

4. If you have a bit of a clue about riding, and perhaps have a good background at a high level (by which I'm talking Advanced eventing+, 1.40+ or PSG), you probably won't reveal your identity and therefore your comments, whilst accurate, will probably be completely dismissed by the majority since you haven't posted any pictures of yourself on a horse (mainly because you did these things back in the mists of time when the rest of us were not even a twinkle in the milkman's eye ).

5. Reports of competitions seem to be less prone to attracting 'helpful' comments than pictures of schooling sessions - no-one yet knows why this is.

6. If there is a high profile, high level event on, rest assured the members of HHO can ride the horses better, make better decisions and generally do a much better job than the pros who are there themselves. The only reason they are riding the sofa not the horse is to give WFP, Edward Gal and William Funnell a chance, it's only fair. They will vocally tell the world exactly what each rider did wrong though, especially if it's Oli Townend, or a young rider on an older schoolmaster horse.

7. If someone does make an observation which is not intended to be CC, but is a genuine query about a method/approach to training, the 'fans' of the OP will immediately assume it is based on a complete lack of knowledge about anything to do with horses, and is entirely to do with jealousy, and the OP is liable to become extremely defensive because the fans have twisted an innocuous comment and discovered nuances even an English teacher would struggle to find. These situations are easily diffused by the OP saying 'you could be right but my trainer and I are keeping an eye on it', but this rarely happens.

8. The truly bad, mad and dangerous vids/pics rarely get anything constructive because the only people who comment are those whose horses are the same, the rest of us are just too gobsmacked that the instructor they use is still making a living.

9. It has become obligatory to end any post with 'not aimed at anyone in particular' or words to that effect. This is the exact same principle used by people who want to say something really horrible and think that prefixing it with 'I don't mean to be rude but....' These people like to phone radio talk shows too, and can often be heard uttering the words 'I'm not racist but....'. They often sound completely rational to start with, but this facade is soon exposed.

10. This is a joke, right?

ETA: Please note the 'probably' in point 4, as I am aware there are a number of people who have done those things and don't mind telling us who they are - but there are quite a few who keep their identity quiet!

This has made me laugh A LOT!! after a very long and crappy day at work!

 

[Festive_Felicitations]

Your riding with a broken leg?? but then I did an endurance with one so I can't talk!
I'm glad you have found a source of your 'problems', but I do think you need to cut yourself a little bit of slack and recognise that this year might be about cementing basics rather than fine tuning detail given everything else you having to cope with. Getting the two CBs as far as you have this year is a serious achievement as, by your desription, they are not exactly 'easy' horses.
Even Superman has had his limits and you have found your kryptonite. Come April (I think you said you chemo finishes then) if you don't start to improve we will stop being polite and open a 'can of whoop arse' on you. Deal?

In the mean time some random ideas...
Core stability - sitting trot, hours of it! Balancing on one of those sports balls is also really good and can be done infront of the TV

Mental sharpness - come and work on a Staurday for me (cackles)
I like doing things like choosing a twisitng trail and deciding that I'm going to try and get a leaf off every second tree, and be on the right diagonal for each bend. Or picking black berries at a trot while maintaining an even rhythm. Canter up a trail and not touch a single over hanging branch or cobweb (requires flexibility & core strength). I do this for fun/ a challange but do find it increases my ability to notice details and speed to react when riding.
I don't know about Sudoku I'm hopless and always feel stupider after trying

 

[Baydale]

I wonder, BD, if you have maybe had one too many crunching falls of late?

When I first joined on here, I remember you whizzing round 2*s and about to go Advanced on Hector with Ross cleaning up the rosettes every which way you looked! And I thought you, in yourself, were on a roll - a win is good for confidence, as is having a horse like Ross that pinged round the XC and a willing trying partner in the lovely Hector. I imagine that must have been like the good old days on William where you were just on a roll. And then I remember thinking that you've just had a totally rough couple of years, from Isleham onwards really - I bet you've broken more things in the last 2 years than you've broken in all the years before! It must have been unbelievably hard to call time on Hector and Ross and go back to square one with two talented but not straightforward youngsters and I think you've probably learned to ride more defensively now than you've ever done before. I'm not talking about your position which is inevitably immaculate from my perspective, more the attitude you approach your competing and riding. That might need a little recognition since you are very 'super-woman' about dealing with adversity and maybe you haven't had enough time and space with everything going on to process how much bad luck you've had with horses in the last few years and how that's affecting you and your riding.

So I don't really have any answers. I'd like to think that the best way for you to gain a sense of what your riding needs would be to have a lesson on a really top class schoolmaster, and I'm not talking about a old horse that could show you the ropes since in fact, you are highly experienced but just maybe need reminding of what it's like to not to have to have to improve the horse you're sat on. Perhaps, something that is competing at the level you want to compete, which would allow you 'me-time' where you can make errors in your riding or your stride-seeing and the horse will be experienced enough and genuine to say 'Ok, no problems' rather than 'Er, mum?'. I think people underestimate the psychological effect of having a horse that is really really on side - it's the reason that jumping ponies for nervous children are so expensive. Basically you as a rider, grow in confidence from having a confident horse which is not to say that Jup isn't confident - just that he's not push button (yet) and you're always working to squeeze the winning formula out of him. That's what I think might be needed here - just for you to remember why you do it and what you enjoy about it and the sensation of it all coming together, rather than having to constantly strive to improve.

Just my thoughts and probably just an outsider's opinion, not related to your own daily reality but it never hurts to hear someone say that you deserve (more than anyone I know) a true superstar of a horse to make all your dreams come true, even if you only get to borrow said horse for a few hours to boost your riding self-esteem

Thanks for taking the time to put those thoughts on paper, kit. I think a lot of what you say is true - although I'm no more deserving of superstar horse than anyone else - and I feel as if I've just put my head down and had my blinkers on, fingers in my ears chanting "la la I can't hear you" at the things that have been creeping up on me. Now, however, my chickens are back home to roost and I shouldn't be surprised by that.

It's great that you remember my Hector and HH days as being so rosy, and they were, relative to what I'm experiencing currently, but they also had their angst: HH's showjumping being the biggest thing, pardon the pun! Since the days of William I've had three horses that have promised me stuff and then got stuck at 2*/Advanced for whatever reason - I'm not complaining about that, more pointing out that the expression "so near and yet so far" comes to mind, especially with my advancing years and the time it takes to produce a horse well to that level. I'm still quite driven (in case you hadn't spotted that ) and perhaps that's where the frustration comes from, whereas if I'd backed off this year and accepted it was going to be a season for marking time it would probably have sat better with me.

The defensive riding is most definitely about how I feel, physically and mentally, not in a scared way as I have no problem bouncing around in my PointTwo and keeping the gas cannister manufacturers in business, more that one half of my brain is appreciating that my body doesn't react the same way so is telling me to slow down and the other half is telling me to giddy up! I'd love to ride a schoolmaster but realistically that's unlikely, I think. I will however be borrowing one of my OH's superduper hunters and going out to have some fun, that's got to help me get my mojo back, don't you think?

 

[Baydale]

gosh, right. was going to post earlier but then got busy, now have time and have read all that ^^^.
first the vids:
Dr - difficult to tell with the not-great-quality vid as i know they sometimes make the tempo look a bit weird, but i think the trotwork looked a tiny bit quick, and he looks as if he rather dives round the corners. the first canter trans looked like the first time he truly waited and listened. canter varying a bit as i'm sure you know, v nice when he lets you ride him. halt in front of judge v v good, rein back a little quick and not quite diag pairs. overall lots and lots to like, but he does look a bit tanky. maybe your half-halts need to go up a tiny notch, or if he won't cope with that you need to do more of them, really use the corners to set him up - which is something i have always really admired about your riding, it just looked as if that day you were keeping it a bit more forward/rhythmical and not quite as 'wait/listen too' as he might have needed?
SJ - big BIG improvement from the last vids i saw. the crookedness etc have already been mentioned. the only one you had down was when you carried on adding out of the corner after losing the canter a bit, but i could totally see why you were doing that... and tbh he could have tried harder. we always beat ourselves up but sometimes 'horse didn't jump high enough' is a good enough reason too.
XC - bloody hell looked like a diff horse to the one i've seen before. i was so impressed that you came into the turning question that strongly (in a good way - i'd have thought on him you'd need to slow down a lot more on approach to get the turn!) and he was so quick and obedient to turn on landing for such a big tank. he was clever at the water and i thought you did it just right. all really good, he's starting to look edumacated xc.
re: not riding as well as previously... when you've been in the wars i think it really takes time to get back to your best. the body finds ways of compensating, protecting itself, curling in on itself a bit or whatever. a good physio should be able to help a lot, maybe?
i'm addicted to a Bruce Springsteen track at the moment, "Tougher Than The Rest" (posted a link on fb to it last night actually) and I can't help thinking of you when I hear the title. You've done bloody brilliantly this year with your not-so-easy-bay-boys and let's hope the only way is up now for you and with them...

Thanks, K, I think you're right about the dressage, I wanted forward and active and I got tanky. It's odd as I didn't think it was a good test but the judge seemed to like it, I got 31.5, yet the lovely test he did at Keysoe with half halts aplenty and a much more consistent way of, got 38.5. I'm hoping that my training I've just started will give me a better idea of how it should be to enable me to move forward, not just bodging a test as I seem to have been a few too many times this season.

I'm glad you can see an improvement in the rest, I was a teeny bit quick to those rolltops and wouldn't have done that with a less balanced horse, nor on a wet day as we'd probably have gone a over t!

I shall consult a physio as I know the doc has said your body does protect itself when you've had damage, hence why I couldn't drive after the mastectomy as he said if I were about to crash my body would think about saving my "chest" (or lack of ) first, then do the usual crash-avoiding stuff! I'll go and find the Springsteen track now, I bet some of the youngsters on here have never even heard of him.

 

[Baydale]

Baydale, I love you for doing this thread
Nothing of any use to add, other than get a nintendo ds to help with improving mental sharpness, brain training really does work (well it did on me anyway, but I'm probably inferior to most in that regard! )

Why? It's just a thread. I could be making it all up and posting vids of someone who's not me.

There may well be a nintendo ds I could get hold of so I could wile away the winter evenings sharpening myself up.

 

[kerilli]

Ah well, we've all done what we thought were lovely tests that judges didn't appreciate, and horrible-feeling tests which judges unaccountably loved. it can be a mystery...
i can definitely see a BIG improvement in the rest.
definitely physio (McTimoney too? i lurve McTimoney) time imho.
i don't think the rest of the Springsteen track applies, it's just the title!
having mused on it, I think HH really 'did a number' on your confidence. you were riding him beautifully but he just didn't care to jump high enough over the fally-down-poles and whatever you did didn't seem to help. as said elsewhere, some have a conscience, some don't. but he promised so much...
tell me about the 'still aiming high, just not getting there' thing. it's demoralising. it's a lot of effort, money, etc to get them up a grade or two and then you get your secret hopes dashed again. it's really really tough. just got to keep on keeping on...

 

[Baydale]

It's a shame other CC threads aren't like this!

I'm in no way able to comment but I would like to say that I too have missed your reports and replies to others!

Thank you, LizzieJ. I find these threads really useful, the sharing of information and constantly learning about horses is fascinating stuff. I'll do an update on the rest of the Baydale gang soon.

 

[VGM]

im not really able to comment too much as i only know what ive gleaned from this thread youve obviously dealt with a lot and seem the kind of person that keeps on going no matter what maybe youre getting to the point you actually need to stop chemotherapy does a lot to the body other than what you can physically feel and whilst chugging on is amazingly brave maybe its done more harm than good and it would hurt just to stop ive thankfully never been in your position and you seem a very brave lady

 

[PorkChop]

Lovely to see a report from you x

Why not take him hunting over the winter and completely ruin all your hard work to the extent that you will be grateful for anything he has to offer you in the way of flatwork

 

[Baydale]

I haven't watched the vids but I thought maybe this CC might help...

So assuming you have pin pointed the main issue being that you believe your riding standard has slipped, why don't you find a really really highly schooled horse you could have the odd lesson on with a very good instructor?...

my instructor always says 'good courses make good horses, and good horses make good riders'

now I never really 'got' this phrase until I got Dustry and had something much more talented to compare to my averagely talented Soap.

Maybe because you have had more novicey horses to bring on through the ranks of late it has had a bit of a negative impact on your skill?....

Possibly the odd lesson on a top level horse might help remind you of how well you can actually ride, and help you bring that back into the saddle with the others?...

constructive enough????....

Very constructive, thanks, but I'm not sure a) where I'd find a schoolmaster and b) where I'd find a schoolmaster than someone would let me ride.

 

[Booboos]

Sorry I haven't read the entire thread so I might be repeating what others have said...

There is no way I can say anything helpful about the jumping, it all looks scary to me, so well done you! The dressage test was really nice, hope you got a good mark for it. He is a lovely horse, very rhythmical and settled in his work. As for points to work on I think he might benefit from practicing the counter-canter a bit more. I was once told that in c-counter the rider should still be able to flex the neck which ever way she wanted and the horse should remain supple and I always found that very helpful. It might also be helpful to try some shoulder-in down the long side in canter to make sure you have control of the quarters. On the whole he is working really nicely for his age and I would imagine the next step for him now is to activate the hind leg a bit more and come up a little bit more in front and he will be a superstar by next spring!

 

[fairhill]

I'm mostly a happy hacker, but have a part-CB and love your posts! You really are an inspiration

I don't often venture in here, or post much these days, but have problems with a weak core (after my stomach muscles separated during pregnancy 3 years ago) and a weak left side (after repeatedly being bucked off onto the left shoulder!), so thought I'd contribute.

I've done yoga for years, and although it's stopped me getting worse, it hasn't helped me improve. I recently had some fab physio and she spent a lot of time working on my core. It's a bit hard to explain without pictures, but I'll give it a go

First exercise is finding your core muscles and activating them: Lie on the floor with your knees bent and feet on the floor. You can feel the trans-abs just below your hip bones, and work on 'tensing' them for up to 30 secs at a time - you should be relaxed in the diaphram (sp?) and be able to talk whilst you're doing it. Build up to being able to activate them standing up for longer periods.

Get a gym ball, and one that's big enough (I'm 5'9" and have a 75cm one). Sit on it. A lot. Bounce on it. Sit in 'neutral' i.e. on your seat bones, and rolll forwards and backwards.
Lie backwards so that your shoulders are on the ball and you make a bridge with knees bent, feet on the floor. Lift one leg and hold. Then the other. To activate the left side you want to hold the right leg off the ground. I found it easy on one leg, terrible on the other.

Mary Wanless has some good rider-based exercises on her website:
http://www.marywanless.net/

Other ideas - find a mechanical horse and have a lesson. Just being able to concentrate entirely on yourself, surrounded by mirrors, makes you really focus.

I'm only just getting back into sitting trot without stirrups, and had a horrible wake-up call last week when i attempted to ride bareback round the field. My lovely mare refused to canter because I am still so unbalanced, and clearly rely far too much on the saddle. I won't be trying that again in a hurry!