Angry, disgusted, devestated...trust no one!!!

[silvershoes]

I have a TB mare that was on grass livery at a yard in Wales where I used to live. I have recently moved to Surrey and due to only having room for 3 horses on our lorry when moving down my mare and my OH's mare stayed on livery there until we could travel back to get them.

So to cut a long story sideways...my OH went to get them at the weekend, only to find my mare in such a state she was too weak to travel back on the lorry. He phoned me crying at the state she was in, I have seen pictures as I was unable to go back with them as I was looking after the yard at home. She is a walking skeleton :'( well, barely able to walk, she was dehydrated and basically ready to give up. I have seen rescue cases and she is by far the worst I have ever seen, every bone and every rib, so upsetting just thinking about it.

She was moved to a friends yard just 2mins down the road to get her back on the mend for a few weeks until she was stronger to last the journey. Only yesterday she took a turn for the worst and colapsed outside her stable and after several attempts to get her up (4 men and a tractor) she wouldn't I was given those awful words that PTS would be best for her. I gave the vet the go ahead as, even my little superstar I've had for 9yrs, I would never want to see her suffer, she doesnt deserve it. The vet went to give her the injection and from no where, she found the strength to get up! She is a fighter and always has been and I know she can pull through. Just taking each day at a time.

I just can't believe that someone I thought I trusted, someone I once called a friend could let a horse get in to such a state. An owner of a livery yard, someone you are meant to trust to look after your horse!? So angry at myself for trusting someone after being told for so long they were both fine and looking well, just can't put in to words how devestated I am for my horse. Its disgusting to think that people can call themselves horse lovers yet ignore the fact a horse under their nose is literally dying. Is this neglect? I just want to know where I stand.

I dread to think if we hadn't gone to get her when we did she would have been found dead in the field we owe them a months livery and tbh I am extremely reluctant to give it to them! If anything, they're getting my vets bills!

But for now I just want my little girl to get better

 

[glamourpuss]

Oh gosh what an awful time you've had

I trust you have photos of the condition of the horse. I definitely wouldn't pay the livery. In fact I would contact small claims court about pursuing them for costs in relation to the condition they allowed the horse to get into.

 

[touchstone]

God how awful, but what a brave little horse she must be.

I would say that the livery yard has been negligent and cruel, they were paid to care for your horse and obviously didn't, even if it is an underlying condition causing the emaciation, then a vet should have been called and the owner notified.

I wouldn't pay a penny and would seek legal advice - the BHS has a free legal helpline for members. I would think that prosecution for neglect could be a possibility so make sure to keep a record and take photos.

I hope you horse makes a full recovery.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Horrible situation to be in!
How long was there between moving the others and going back for her?

 

[quirky]

How long was she there? Must've been quite a time to deteriorate to such an extent
Hope she picks up with some tlc and you can get her home soon.

 

[weebarney]

Who was supposed to be caring for it? It would take a long time for a horse to turn skeletal, how long since you last saw horse looking ok?

 

[BBH]

A horse can't go from being healthy to collapse in a short space of time so I'd be looking to myself to see if I shouldn't have checked on her more frequently or ask a friend to do so.

Its not what you want to hear but you need to take some responsibility for her, its not unusual that people in the horse world are not to be trusted, especially if the owner is not around.

Failing that go after them legally for not providing the service you paid for. They have a duty of care which has failed.

 

[asterid]

OMG! How utterly dreadful. So glad your mare is now elsewhere and hopefully be on the mend.

I would be totally angry and upset and probably not accountable for my actions! I would be furious! Yes, it is neglect if they were paid to be in someone elses care.

Don't pay the livery! I don't know much on RSPCA and other organisations for welfare etc, but I am sure someone else on here can offer you some really good legal advice.

 

[Tonks]

This is a horrible situation.

However, just to play devils advocate here.....

If you had her on 'grass livery' and there was a contact in place, you need to refer to this contract as it may state that the owner of the livery is not responsible for anything other than renting a field to you.

Normally with grass livery, the livery owner is not responsible for the care of the horse and you are simply paying to 'rent' a feild - nothing more. The owner does have a duty of care however, but I don't think this is legally enforceable.

I have a feeling that if it's grass livery it is your responsbility to care for the animal as it would be the same for DIY.

If she were on full livery, it would be a different kettle of fish.

If however, she was on grass livery without a contract and you only have a verbal 'contract' or it was simply a discussion with a freind, it is very difficult to enforce legally as ultimately you are responsible.

 

[lottiepony]

Awful situation how long was she there for?

 

[silvershoes]

Thank you everyone, I last saw her at the beginning of December and she looked fine, lost her muscle which is understandable after not being in work but she was fat.

When my OH got there the YO said not to take her rug off because she would get cold, and hadn't mentioned anything until my OH was on his way she said oh btw the little mare looks poor. Fair enough after having snow so only hay to survive on I wasn't expecting her to look a million dollars. But I certainly wasn't expecting this

I completely blame myself, wishing I hadn't put her there but at the time it was our only option. Its only been 2 months since I've seen her and I just can't believe the state she is in

Its touch and go at the moment but I have pictures and also text messages from the YO saying right up until Friday that both mares are fine.

 

[Elsiecat]

I'm sorry but 2 months without seeing her (you definitely could have found the time in 2 months to get her or at the least check on her). And as far as I'm aware grass livery is grass livery.
If she'd been on full livery then it would be different.
It doesn't excuse the YO care of duty for the horses. But as an owner you really didn't do enough.

 

[silvershoes]

This is a horrible situation.

However, just to play devils advocate here.....

If you had her on 'grass livery' and there was a contact in place, you need to refer to this contract as it may state that the owner of the livery is not responsible for anything other than renting a field to you.

Normally with grass livery, the livery owner is not responsible for the care of the horse and you are simply paying to 'rent' a feild - nothing more. The owner does have a duty of care however, but I don't think this is legally enforceable.

I have a feeling that if it's grass livery it is your responsbility to care for the animal as it would be the same for DIY.

If she were on full livery, it would be a different kettle of fish.

If however, she was on grass livery without a contract and you only have a verbal 'contract' or it was simply a discussion with a freind, it is very difficult to enforce legally as ultimately you are responsible.

She was out on grass livery at a livery yard along with 9 or more other liveries horses. It was agreed with myself, the YO and my OH that she would check them (as we were moving to Surrey) until we could arrange to come back and get them.

I agree it was only a grass livery as such, but as we were friends and were in a difficult situation, this was what was agreed.

When we were there we did go and check them, but when you think you know these people you put your trust in them

 

[tessybear]

I'm sorry but 2 months without seeing her (you definitely could have found the time in 2 months to get her or at the least check on her). And as far as I'm aware grass livery is grass livery.
If she'd been on full livery then it would be different.
It doesn't excuse the YO care of duty for the horses. But as an owner you really didn't do enough.

This ^^ I am afraid, could you not have got friend down the road to visit her ? If it was my horse away from me for 2 months and i had friends locally i would be getting them to take photos and e-mail them over or at least check.

Good luck with her though x

 

[touchstone]

This is a horrible situation.

However, just to play devils advocate here.....

If you had her on 'grass livery' and there was a contact in place, you need to refer to this contract as it may state that the owner of the livery is not responsible for anything other than renting a field to you.

Normally with grass livery, the livery owner is not responsible for the care of the horse and you are simply paying to 'rent' a feild - nothing more. The owner does have a duty of care however, but I don't think this is legally enforceable.

I have a feeling that if it's grass livery it is your responsbility to care for the animal as it would be the same for DIY.

If she were on full livery, it would be a different kettle of fish.

If however, she was on grass livery without a contract and you only have a verbal 'contract' or it was simply a discussion with a freind, it is very difficult to enforce legally as ultimately you are responsible.

Disagree with this post - the livery yard owner has a duty of care legally, regardless of the type of livery provided or whether a written contract was drawn up - paying money is a contract. Ring the BHS op

 

[silvershoes]

I'm sorry but 2 months without seeing her (you definitely could have found the time in 2 months to get her or at the least check on her). And as far as I'm aware grass livery is grass livery.
If she'd been on full livery then it would be different.
It doesn't excuse the YO care of duty for the horses. But as an owner you really didn't do enough.

Yeah if it was 5mins down the road I would be there every day, but when its 500 miles its slightly different. I left December, thats when I last saw her. Then we had all the snow so we werent able to go, plus neither of us drive the lorry so we had to wait for our friend to be available and have the time off work.

So believe me if I had a sooner opportunity to go we would of. But thanks for sending my guilt trip on an even bigger trip.

 

[silvershoes]

This ^^ I am afraid, could you not have got friend down the road to visit her ? If it was my horse away from me for 2 months and i had friends locally i would be getting them to take photos and e-mail them over or at least check.

Good luck with her though x

Yes, the YO was a friend, checking her every day. But obviously I learnt the hard way that you can't trust anyone these days.

Being told every day your horse is fine, you stupidly believe them.

 

[Elsiecat]

"So believe me if I had a sooner opportunity to go we would of. But thanks for sending my guilt trip on an even bigger trip."

So you wanted me to back you up and completely blame the YO for something that is equally your fault!? We're we all supposed to ignore the fact that as an owner you could have done more?
You're on a public forum, don't chuck your toys out of the pram when people disagree with you.
For what it's worth I did have a degree of sympathy for you. I don't now. The only one I have sympathy for is the horse and I hope she gets better.

 

[Firewell]

Actually I think the responsibilty does partly lie with the livery yard owner. The horse was on her property under her care. If she was on DIY grass livery and she was just left for 2 months (which is abysmal IMO), the yard owner should have rung up OP and said that they won't have a horse on the yard that is not being taken care of and that she will take care of horse and charge OP or OP has to remove horse. I know all my livery contracts I have signed DIY or not say that if the horse is not recieving adequate care, care will be provided and charged for. Even where I work which is very much DIY any horse that is just left in the field, we ask their owners to remove horse or we will charge for feeding it.
If the OP was paying for full grass livery where the horse was to be fed hay and checked regularly I probably would take the livery yard owner to court for causing unneccessary suffering. If you are paying for a service you should be recieving it.
Without knowing more details on the agreement it is hard to assign the blame but I think it is disgusting that a horse was allowed to get into this state by an owner who has a responisbilty to make sure their horse is OK and a yard who has a responsibility to make sure the horses on it are ok!

 

[touchstone]

Don't beat yourself up op; you did what you could under the circumstances and sadly we often learn the hard way that trust can be misplaced with certain individuals. You were paying for a service which wasn't provided, the yo is the one in the wrong and the one who had a legal responsibility of duty of care to the horse at the time.

 

[ester]

was hay to be provided as part of the contract/charged separately?

does your other horse look ok (as you mention both mares)?

Is it possible that the TB has something underlying going on that has caused the weightloss over and above the other one? or is she a poor doer anyway (in which case perhaps grass livery wasn't suitable for her)

 

[skint1]

I'm really very sorry for your mare and for you, I can't begin to imagine how you must feel right now, a hard lesson learnt for you I am sure.

I think a lot of the time when we go away and leave our horses in the care of others it turns out that "checking" the horse is literally just seeing there is still a leg in each corner. Was she supposed to be being fed? Did you pay anyone extra for care?

 

[Elsiecat]

I agree with everything Firewall has said. She put it better than I could!

 

[ponypilotmum]

OP, ignore the people digging the knife in deeper. None of them would have driven 500 miles weekly to check on a horse they were trusting a friend to look after either. No matter what they say.

I doubt you'll get a penny from your ex friend, but do not pay the livery, and chalk it up as experience.

 

[ihatework]

Were you paying for your horse to be fed and hayed? If not, why not? We have had one of the most awful winters, with all this rain - most fields are trashed.

If you agreed with the livery owner that they would check on the horse, and they have been saying everything is fine, then yes they have been negligent. But don't lay all the blame on them.

 

[silvershoes]

"So believe me if I had a sooner opportunity to go we would of. But thanks for sending my guilt trip on an even bigger trip."

So you wanted me to back you up and completely blame the YO for something that is equally your fault!? We're we all supposed to ignore the fact that as an owner you could have done more?
You're on a public forum, don't chuck your toys out of the pram when people disagree with you.
For what it's worth I did have a degree of sympathy for you. I don't now. The only one I have sympathy for is the horse and I hope she gets better.

Its only my fault why she was there, she has been there since October last year, and until December when I moved she was checked by myself and was fine. Happy as larry with the others, once we moved it was agreed that until we could come back for them the YO was going to take care of them and charge us accordingly. Which is what she did, hay was put in the field when the bad weather came, which was added to our bill. We kept in touch and frequently asked how they were doing and I have umpteen messages saying they were both doing well. So this has only happened since being completely under the YO care. I know I only have myself to blame for the length of time she has been there, I appologise for snapping but I'm in a pretty ****** situation at the moment. I just feel gutted for my horse that I have allowed it to happen but then I do think the YO is the only one to blame for the condition she is in.

 

[Elsiecat]

"ponypilotmum
OP, ignore the people digging the knife in deeper. None of them would have driven 500 miles weekly to check on a horse they were trusting a friend to look after either. No matter what they say. "

No but when I moved I did a 160 mile trip daily to sort my horse out, muck out, ride, groom and do haynets and feed buckets. This was for a full week.
So don't say in 8 weeks she couldn't have made 1 trip!

I'm not 'digging the knife in deeper' I'm merely playing devils advocate on a thread where she is openly trying to lay all the blame on the YO.
It's a sad lesson learnt but we all need to walk away from things with our eyes opened. I'm sorry this has happened to the OP but I'm more sorry that this has happened to the horse!

 

[TrasaM]

I don't understand why some posters are blaming the OP for leaving her horse with a trusted 'friend' and not checking up on it in person.
I hope your horse makes a full recovery. I'd be in touch with the animal welfare people to ask if anything could be done and getting legal advice on what if any legal action could be taken against this person.

I can sadly see how this could happen as I share a horse who is kept at a yard owned by a friend of the horses owner. Horse has been fed crappy hay and underfed to the point where the vet and back lady commented on how thin hes become. And that's with us being there most days!
I could see the same thing happening to him if we were to leave him in her care and not check on him.

 

[Booboos]

With the extra information you have provided it does seem to have been the YO at fault. If she had agreed to look after the mare and paid to do so there is no excuse. There may be some underlying condition that has caused your mare to deteriorate so rapidly but I imagine the YO left her unattended with a rug on so did not notice the early signs.

What a terrible situation to be in! I don't think you were wrong to trust the YO, you knew her, it was her job and you paid her to do her job which she did not do.

I hope your mare recovers and can travel down to your new home.

 

[silvershoes]

Were you paying for your horse to be fed and hayed? If not, why not? We have had one of the most awful winters, with all this rain - most fields are trashed.

If you agreed with the livery owner that they would check on the horse, and they have been saying everything is fine, then yes they have been negligent. But don't lay all the blame on them.

Yes hay was put in the fields and added to our bill. The other mare looks ok, not great but not as bad as mine.

I just dont believe things like this can happen over night. She apparently said that she needed her teeth doing (even though they were done in Aug last year) thats why she wasn't eating, but she never told us she wasn't eating until Friday and she had bad mud fever so her legs were sore. This I expecting living out but why wasn't I informed? Then I could have done something. I have said so many times now if she said she thought she wasn't doing well being out or was looking poor I'd have paid for her to move to full livery etc and then come up and get her. I just stupidly believed that she was ok