Animal welfare bill

mariew said:
Well if it's genuinely about welfare maybe they need to say all animals to be killed has to be pre stunned, religion or not 🤷‍♀️
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It's obviously a very sensitive topic politically. I've discussed ritual slaughter with Muslim friends (they were all fine with pre-stunning), but I've not had chance to have the same discussion recently with Jewish friends. Does anyone have further info on this?
 
Having read the section on trail hunting, it looks like they are defining it as 'where an animal-based scent trail is laid for dogs to follow.'

So how would this affect the harrier pack I went out with who, apparently, didn't use an animal-based scent but still described the activity as 'trail hunting'?

If it's just about banning the use of animal-based scent, I can't see a ban being all that effective...
 
Nancykitt said:
Having read the section on trail hunting, it looks like they are defining it as 'where an animal-based scent trail is laid for dogs to follow.'

So how would this affect the harrier pack I went out with who, apparently, didn't use an animal-based scent but still described the activity as 'trail hunting'?

If it's just about banning the use of animal-based scent, I can't see a ban being all that effective...
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It’s difficult to see how it will play out.

I suspect the fox packs will mimic the drag packs, but given the foxhounds won’t follow the non animal sent, they will be off the line rather frequently and still be after fox. The fox that will likely be encouraged to breed in nearby locations to the non animal scent trail.

As a country we will spend a fortune banning trail hunting, either policing it or not, and meanwhile the hunts will be exploiting the loop holes in a similar way that the politicians exploit their expenses 💁‍♀️
 
Everyone knows that the foxhunting hunts will find ways to circumvent any restrictions on their antics. Simply banning the use of animal scent to lay trails won’t work, they’ll pretend to be following a synthetic trail while carrying on as they always have done.

My money’s on a radical banning of hunting any ‘laid trails’ of any flavour, natural or synthetic, to stop the naughty hunts in their tracks. That’s why drag and bloodhound packs are under real threat, they may well get taken out too.

Hunting has sabbed itself, it could have survived if it had just followed the law.
 
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Nancykitt said:
Having read the section on trail hunting, it looks like they are defining it as 'where an animal-based scent trail is laid for dogs to follow.'

So how would this affect the harrier pack I went out with who, apparently, didn't use an animal-based scent but still described the activity as 'trail hunting'?

If it's just about banning the use of animal-based scent, I can't see a ban being all that effective...
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I really don't think they (Gvt/LACS) are interested in the foot hunts. They think hunting is a pursuit of the rich, who can afford to keep horses(!) and that is what they want to stop.
 
When is this likely to happen? Assuming it does? I expect there will be big turn outs for Boxing Day meets this year!
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
I really don't think they (Gvt/LACS) are interested in the foot hunts. They think hunting is a pursuit of the rich, who can afford to keep horses(!) and that is what they want to stop.
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Do you think this class war will continue if all hunting is banned?

Will they start sabbing the local golf club? Hold demos at cricket pavillions?
Maybe even protest at the local bridge club?

Most people I know who don't support hunting couldn't care less about rich people or what they can afford.
But they are disgusted at killing an animal for sport.
 
lizziebell said:
Thats ok. You’d be amazed at how many people in this country who support trail hunting do not understand that fox (or animal based) scent is being used.
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I think I was under the impression that they all used fox scent? Or that they mixed them indiscriminately? I suppose I hadn't thought that you'd have to train your pack to focus on one scent (or would you - the people I know who do scentwork train their dogs to several scents. I don't really know enough to know if that would work with a pack).

The trail vs drag just doesn't seem to be a distinction here - the local hunt here says that they are a drag hunt, and that drag hunts "usually" use fox urine!

Anyway! I am not really on topic any more. Thank you for the clarification.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
I really don't think they (Gvt/LACS) are interested in the foot hunts. They think hunting is a pursuit of the rich, who can afford to keep horses(!) and that is what they want to stop.
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The foot packs will very much be covered by the same legalisation, and rightly so, they are as bad as the mounted packs. Worse possibly, as they can sneak out more under the radar than mounted packs.

Handily highlighted by the Coniston Foxhounds fell pack incident of a few weeks ago. All caught on anti drone footage digging out a fox on a fell side and throwing the fox to the hounds. 7 arrests so far.

www.news.cumbria.police.uk

Arrests made following illegal fox hunting activity report in Ambleside

www.news.cumbria.police.uk www.news.cumbria.police.uk
 
moosea said:
Do you think this class war will continue if all hunting is banned?

Will they start sabbing the local golf club? Hold demos at cricket pavillions?
Maybe even protest at the local bridge club?

Most people I know who don't support hunting couldn't care less about rich people or what they can afford.
But they are disgusted at killing an animal for sport.
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No, I think they will go after shooting next, then racing and very likely fishing last. I would support a ban on sports fishing but because fish aren't fluffy and it's not seen as 'rich man's sport' despite the cost of the equipment, LACS aren't bothered.

Eta, just to be clear, I do not and never have hunted.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
No, I think they will go after shooting next, then racing and very likely fishing last. I would support a ban on sports fishing but because fish aren't fluffy and it's not seen as 'rich man's sport' despite the cost of the equipment, LACS aren't bothered.

Eta, just to be clear, I do not and never have hunted.
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I doubt they will ever ban fishing as it’s seen as an “ordinary person “ sport , although I must admit I don’t see it as different to fox hunting but the fish aren’t pretty and fluffy . The only hunting I ever did was drag hunting as I have never wanted to see a fox killed… on the other hand i hate what foxes have done to my friends pet hens recently and our yard hens many years ago so I think their numbers should be controlled but not sure how
 
If we are going to stop caged Hens and farrowing crates (I do agree with this proposal) are we going to stop imported animal products produced in such conditions or is this another kick in the teeth for UK Farmers?

The Public are very happy to get behind animal Welfare rulings until it hits them in the pocket!

I also am right behind banning puppy farming but I see this as impossible to police. There are a few good ideas in there but some of them will be incredibly difficult to pull off.

I also agree that if we're going to be hot on animal welfare then Halal/Kosher should not be exempted though it's a can of worms for sure!
 
People only care about animal welfare when it suits them.

Beauty products tested on animals.

Rat traps, slug killer, sticky fly traps.

Sucking spiders up the hoover.

Cheap imported meat of misery.

People are very quick to spit venom at those who hunt, without taking a look in the mirror at themselves first.
 
Pearlsacarolsinger said:
No, I think they will go after shooting next, then racing and very likely fishing last. I would support a ban on sports fishing but because fish aren't fluffy and it's not seen as 'rich man's sport' despite the cost of the equipment, LACS aren't bothered.

Eta, just to be clear, I do not and never have hunted.
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Racing won't be touched, far too much revenue would be lost.
 
Traks said:
When is this likely to happen? Assuming it does? I expect there will be big turn outs for Boxing Day meets this year!
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Over the next four years; the trail hunting section specifically says ' We will put an end to trail hunting and consult in early 2026 on how to deliver a ban on trail hunting'
 
Not all trail hunts have been breaking the law. If you have a pack of hounds galloping across the countryside they are bound to disturb foxes and deer, they live there after all. Not all the foxes filmed by the Sabs are being hunted, they are just getting out of the way. There have not been many prosecutions at all, at lot is heresay, not facts. If someone tells you often enough that trail hunts are hunting foxes then it gets believed.

From the start the legislation was deeply flawed, they should have stated what was allowed, not what was banned.

I am planning to become a member of the Clean Boot Hunting Association when it opens for membership. I have been reading some of the Facebook pages and I am most impressed with the New Forest Bloodhounds who even have a Quarry Club where their runners meet up every week for training session and a drink in the pub afterwards. They were originally a fox hunt, then trail and then changed to bloodhounds.

I just fear for the future of the foxhound as a breed.
 
Orangehorse said:
Not all trail hunts have been breaking the law. If you have a pack of hounds galloping across the countryside they are bound to disturb foxes and deer, they live there after all. Not all the foxes filmed by the Sabs are being hunted, they are just getting out of the way. There have not been many prosecutions at all, at lot is heresay, not facts. If someone tells you often enough that trail hunts are hunting foxes then it gets believed.

From the start the legislation was deeply flawed, they should have stated what was allowed, not what was banned.

I am planning to become a member of the Clean Boot Hunting Association when it opens for membership. I have been reading some of the Facebook pages and I am most impressed with the New Forest Bloodhounds who even have a Quarry Club where their runners meet up every week for training session and a drink in the pub afterwards. They were originally a fox hunt, then trail and then changed to bloodhounds.

I just fear for the future of the foxhound as a breed.
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Problem is even one hunt breaking the law, which we know has happened, isn't acceptable. The NF Bloodhounds are one example of just how easy it is to move with the times with a bit of an open mind and future proofing. If other hunts had been more open to change and doing things the right way, this conversation may not be happening.
 
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