Animals v Humans

ImmyS said:
I still don't understand where that suggests that I think only unhealthy animals should be eaten. Nothing about eating is in that passage :confused:
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If the only ones killed are the unhealthy, as no healthy animal should be 'put to sleep', which is a euphamism for killing, then surely that only leaves the unhealthy for meat?
 
YorksG said:
If the only ones killed are the unhealthy, as no healthy animal should be 'put to sleep', which is a euphamism for killing, then surely that only leaves the unhealthy for meat?
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Throughout my posts I'm merely saying my opinion which is we are animals... animals eat other animals throughout nature therefore that is a separate matter from keeping animals as pets/for leisure purposes. A lot of issues, mental and physical, in animals are either knowingly or unknowingly caused by humans therefore the need to kill animals for these reasons is usually dues to human fault somewhere along the line... You rarely see unhealthy wild animals and if so they die of natural causes.

Basically I'm trying to say that I find it hard to want to be apart of the human race, we seem to contaminate, kill anything with natural value/ beauty. Hmm.. This threads getting deep
 
Your probably right ImmyS, we do ruin horses and other animals but if someone didn't PTS them than what would happen to them? They would be neglected and suffer much more than being put to sleep. Unfortunately everything has to have a use to us, whether you like it or not that isn't going to go away.

Yes this thread is getting deep!
 
Rhino - my point is I do not believe we should have gotten to a time where we have domesticated animals however this is the way the world has become unfortunately. Yes it is lucky, but who's fault is it most animals become ill, injured in the first place... Ours..
 
There is only one certainty in life, after birth, and that's death. Nature is not a benevolent force.

Yes, animals get injured/ill and die every day due to us, but you know what? Plenty can be fixed/cured and live long healthy lives, due to man's intervention. Isn't that remarkable? That we can keep them healthy, happy and pain free? That far fewer animals will die in infancy than without intervention? :)

We can't 'fix' humanity. All we can do is the very best we can for the animals in our care :)
 
Well I for one am glad we got to a point of domesticated animals. Because if having to listen to humans waffle on about crap like this would leave me running for the rat poison. At least I can get a break with my animals. Immy, I assume you are a strict vegan and own nothing made of animal products to keep in line with your beliefs?

Topic at hand, no I wouldn't put a healthy animal down. If I was suffering at the end of my days, yes I want out of my misery.

This reminds me of a post by an animal rescue on my Facebook last week. A horse with a fake leg. Actually had a wheel on the bottom of it for pete's sake. Horse had pressure sores on it's face. People were posting of how great that was and how people were so cruel in putting horses down with broken legs because of the expense and now the animal was of no value. WTF? I deleted the society because that isn't saving animals and putting welfare first. Well I deleted after ranting a little.

Terri
 
Immy S, I am going to say you are clearly not a rider, after all how can you combine the thought that we shouldn't have domesticated animals with being allowed to ride them?
Utter rubbish, and completly off topic, no I wouldn't put a healthy horse down which could have a useful life with someone if I could no longer take care of it, which would only be through severe disability, but equally I would shoot a dangerous creature who would be likely to cause serious injury to someone if it ended up in the wrong hands. Fact of life, my horses come first for me, but morally I would not pass on something which would either endanger itself, or someone else, or who would be likely to end up as a welfare case.
 
There was a horse on our yard who would hardly look lame at all to someone who didn't know him, but that was because he had problems with all 4 legs. He was just 9 & looked fantastic, a lot of people would have loved to own a horse that looked as good as him. He had a real presence. He was carefully managed & his work was only ever what he could cope with until it was just hacking at walk. The one day out hacking he just stopped & refused to go forward which was unlike him. Even then a passer by would have wondered why this horse was being led when the other 2 were being ridden. They would probably assume that the rider had a problem.
The Vet confirmed the worst & he was PTS straight away. It was absolutely the right decision, but I can't help but think that if he was at some other yards somebody would have been on here slagging the owner off just because he looked so good & his problems weren't always obvious. He could be a bit stiff, his stifle could lock but once he was going he could look fine. I fact 5 mins before he stopped we were commenting on how well he was striding out.
So really all you "x is pts a healthy horse because she can't be bothered" people - unless the owner has had in depth discussions with you, unless you have been there everytime she has had a conversation with the Vet - you only THINK you know the full story & 99.9999% of the time you will be wrong. So please do everyone a favour & stop making these threads. Jeez have you learned nothing from the murder thread & the owners painful response.
 
hairycob said:
So really all you "x is pts a healthy horse because she can't be bothered" people - unless the owner has had in depth discussions with you, unless you have been there everytime she has had a conversation with the Vet - you only THINK you know the full story & 99.9999% of the time you will be wrong. So please do everyone a favour & stop making these threads. Jeez have you learned nothing from the murder thread & the owners painful response.
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This^^^^^^. And please stop making comparisons between having a pet or working animal PTS for whatever reason and euthanizing children/people. There are people on this forum who have lost children or have had to make that horrific decision to turn off life support for a loved-one . . . these comparisons are just completely unnecessary, childish and incredibly unfeeling and callous.

OP, were you bored and decided to poo stir again?

P
 
Ladydragon said:
This was in response to a comment about letting your child go without v a horse...

If you had a child you could not go without a roof over your head, food in the cupboards, using utilities, maintaining your own health and generally needing to put the time in with said child... Your own expenses are pretty redundant when you have a child and most cannot be 'gone without'...
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Thank you so much for explaining that for me. I had given up and gone to bed.

I have literally no idea how so many people get to adulthood without a real understanding of what it means to be so poor you're struggling to put food on the table. Even if it has never happened to you, why can't you understand that it could and does happen to lots of people.

The naive, black and white way some people on here see the world actually terrifies me. And the complete lack of empathy of course. Why can people no longer empathise? Is it because everyone is retarded, lazy, too selfish to understand how others people's lives might be, too sheltered so they literally can not understand?

I'll stop now before it turns into a real rant.........
 
jesstickle said:
The naive, black and white way some people on here see the world actually terrifies me. And the complete lack of empathy of course. Why can people no longer empathise? Is it because everyone is retarded, lazy, too selfish to understand how others people's lives might be, too sheltered so they literally can not understand?

I'll stop now before it turns into a real rant.........
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Well put jesstickle . . . I'll just add - or is it because it's very easy to live in a black and white world when you are sitting behind a computer screen passing judgment on other people's decisions?

I can't tell you how cross I am that this particular dead horse ('scuse the pun) is still being flogged.

P
 
If you decide to have children and horses then it's your choice. Then more forward planning is a sensible idea. Too many people live for today, we have income protection so if the unexpected does happen then nether us my horse or daughter will go without. If I'm unable to look after them physically then that's also taken care of. We have a responsibility to both for life so should think of the future not just today.
 
Black_Horse_White said:
If you decide to have children and horses then it's your choice. Then more forward planning is a sensible idea. Too many people live for today, we have income protection so if the unexpected does happen then nether us my horse or daughter will go without. If I'm unable to look after them physically then that's also taken care of. We have a responsibility to both for life so should think of the future not just today.
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And in an ideal world nothing would ever happen that meant horses lives are put at risk, but sadly even with all the forward planning in place, things can happen that mean the best laid plans can go wrong depending on circumstances.

The best I can do for my horse is to ensure that she has a long happy and quality life at nineteen years young. If anything happened to change my ability to offer that then she would have a shorter happy quality life.
 
rhino said:
Are you a strict vegan? Do you not own any leather products?
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Same question I think to the OP.

Always think this argument is ridiculous. Just because we choose to keep horses as pets, what makes them more worthy of life than a cow or a sheep, or a chicken for that matter.

If an animal is treated humanely, in life and death, then I don't see a problem with ending its life early. Indeed as a meat eater, it would be incredibly hypocritical of me if I had an issue with people killing healthy animals for any reason.
 
I think horses are a lot more useful that cows & sheep. Ranches in America rely on horses to be able to look after their cattle. Horses have helped us to progress to where we are today, you wouldn't see a sheep down the pit helping the miners, or a cow pulling a barge along the canel. Maybe that's why horses are held in higher reguard as other livestock.
 
Black_Horse_White said:
I think horses are a lot more useful that cows & sheep. Ranches in America rely on horses to be able to look after their cattle. Horses have helped us to progress to where we are today, you wouldn't see a sheep down the pit helping the miners, or a cow pulling a barge along the canel. Maybe that's why horses are held in higher reguard as other livestock.
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Yes that's why they worked for and with humans for a very very long time like dogs and cats that elevated them in our reguard to another level.
Dogs guarded us hunted with us showed us loyaltity cats caught vermin in our earliest granarys and were valuable because of that and the horse carried our goods made it possible to trade to travel to learn about the wider world they carried us to war stayed noble and above conflict while we fought that's why we reguard them differently they earned there place up there.
 
Black_Horse_White said:
If you decide to have children and horses then it's your choice. Then more forward planning is a sensible idea. Too many people live for today, we have income protection so if the unexpected does happen then nether us my horse or daughter will go without. If I'm unable to look after them physically then that's also taken care of. We have a responsibility to both for life so should think of the future not just today.
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Don't kid yourself. Have you looked in detail at the small print of your income protection policy for 1. how much it will pay 2. what conditions it will pay out for 3. how long it will pay out for 4. inflation proofing?
Are you also aware what percentage of income protection policies have been missold to people so badly that they had no chance of claiming?
You also need to be aware that a pre-existing condition, even if you don't know you have it, will allow the insurance company to refuse payment.A friend was diagnosed with MS. Her policy did not pay out as prior to taking out the policy, she had what was thought to be a trapped nerve. It proved to be the onset of MS. As the condition existed before she took the policy out, although unknown to her or her GP, she has received nothing.

Stop being so smug and accept that unexpected does happen. This is why it is described as unexpected.
 
Ali27 said:
My horses are with me for life! My daughter's outgrown pony is on loan to my old yard and will come back to me when they finish with her!
I can't understand people who sell or PTS horses rather than give them the retirement that they deserve!
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:) yes agreed, but saying that some people are are not in the position to keep their horses in retirement, whether its through lack of facilites, cost or health, and would not want to pass them on to anyone else, oh yes I know there are some very good caring homes out there, but there are so many others that care little for their animals, therefore by pts at home is in fact the kindest thing you can do for them, rather than sending them off to an unknown future, I know mine will never go anywhere else, so please think again before you make judgement on these people :) but I'm lucky to be able to keep them all in retirement and looked after as usual !
 
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neelie OAP said:
:) yes agreed, but saying that some people are are not in the position to keep their horses in retirement, whether its through lack of facilites, cost or health, and would not want to pass them on to anyone else, oh yes I know there are some very good caring homes out there, but there are so many others that care little for their animals, therefore by pts at home is in fact the kindest thing you can do for them, rather than sending them off to an unknown future, I know mine will never go anywhere else, so please think again before you make judgement on these people :)
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^this^
 
Black_Horse_White said:
If you decide to have children and horses then it's your choice. Then more forward planning is a sensible idea. Too many people live for today, we have income protection so if the unexpected does happen then nether us my horse or daughter will go without. If I'm unable to look after them physically then that's also taken care of. We have a responsibility to both for life so should think of the future not just today.
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Aggghhhh... I'm sorry but this attitude is really annoying...

Even if you think you have all bases covered - it is really naive (crass/pompous/daft) not to be able to perceive that sometimes, just *sometimes*, the unexpected can happen and your whole life can be turned upside down in a way you can't 'prepare for'...

I thought I was very prepared when the very worse thing ever was happening and I knew life was never going to be the same again - but we'd be ok and muddle through... It still brought me to my knees then two more major complications occurred and life hit the deck... You really have no idea...
 
Black_Horse_White said:
Actually yes have checked the small print and it was not mis-sold. And I'm not being smug! Just looking after the future of my family.
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So if you are totally disabled tomorrow and your partner loses his job or has to give it up to care for you, your policy will replace both your incomes for the rest of your life, with index-linking for inflation? Do not be so naive.
 
I know countless people who have those policies and didn't pay out when they were seriously ill. Also, if you were terminally/seriously ill that extra money would probably have to go on nursing care anyway..

I do agree that a lot of people live beyond their means, and should have money put aside for a rainy day, but even the best laid plans can go wrong, and those policies are very expensive. You never know what is around the corner.


And on the other topic - how come so many people have seen so many horses put down for no reason!! I'm in my 40s and started with horses at the age of ten. I don't think I've ever seen an unjustifiable horse PTS. On the otherhand I've seen hundreds that should have been PTS and kept alive to make the owner feel better...
 
Honey08 said:
I know countless people who have those policies and didn't pay out when they were seriously ill. Also, if you were terminally/seriously ill that extra money would probably have to go on nursing care anyway..

I do agree that a lot of people live beyond their means, and should have money put aside for a rainy day, but even the best laid plans can go wrong, and those policies are very expensive. You never know what is around the corner.


And on the other topic - how come so many people have seen so many horses put down for no reason!! I'm in my 40s and started with horses at the age of ten. I don't think I've ever seen an unjustifiable horse PTS. On the otherhand I've seen hundreds that should have been PTS and kept alive to make the owner feel better...
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:) yes agree on both counts
 
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