Another British Horse Society c**k-up

PAK

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There is a lack of transparency in this "secret society" that does not publish Board or senior management minutes. When members lack information and see huge lorries and a puppet, questions must be raised!
 

PAK

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While we finally got some minutes, not all of them and its seems that a lot of people from the floor were not there.

Like Bobby Ewing,( if you are too young, its an very old TV soap), we will all wake up in the shower and it will be like it never happened. They wish
BHS continues to dismiss legitimate & respectful questions from its members.
 

PAK

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You may have a point and valid reasons for all this but this kind of post is weird imo. Summarise the facts and they should speak for themselves.
Love your title. I keep poultry too. Yes I agree - just trying to spread the word so people start/continue informing themselves. Watch this space for the facts. They do speak for themselves.
 
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Love your title. I keep poultry too. Yes I agree - just trying to spread the word so people start/continue informing themselves. Watch this space for the facts. They do speak for themselves.
but if I were to come across one of these odd posts without knowing the background I'd be likely to dismiss it as a personal dispute or just be turned off the whole thing.
 

honetpot

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Sorry I am suffering from information fatigue.

Unfortunately do to the nature of forums, information that you put in ages a go get lost in the conversation. The facebook group was set up to put all the documents in one place.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/membersBHS/
All the docs are uploaded at the side of the page, accounts, The Strategy plan, breakdowns of spending. Minutes taken at the meeting, Bob Miltons opinion/account of the Articles of Association changes.

Lots of people started on this when the proposed changes were announced, I started looking as a long standing member as to why they were needed and I have found out more over the last three weeks. The meeting of the 5th January, which I attended thinking I would sit and say nothing, and came away perplexed by the way it was run and the answers given by the Board and their reasoning behind the answers.
I have since emailed and got answers which conflict with the ones I was at the meeting, given by the same person. Confused, I am.

If this was a service we were buying, such as, electrify, we would want to know we were getting the best value for money, and they would have to tell us. The BHS do not tell us, they give us no accounts and they seem to be very good at keeping each area uninformed even though they spent over £1m on it.

We give a proportion of our membership to a charity to spend on ,'HORSES AND RIDERS IN THE UK AND ABROAD. FOCUSING ON HORSE WELFARE, HORSE AND RIDER SAFETY, ACCESS AND RIGHTS OF WAY, TRAINING AND APPROVING LIVERY YARDS AND RIDING SCHOOLS.'
We are just making sure the money is going on that, and we are getting value for money. Is that really a bad thing?

The other big thing is how people are appointed to the Board, they are not voted on by members. It could end up that there were very few members on the board at all, who had any commitment to the charities core aims.

So ie. The Board needs the plumbing fixing, members apply for the job, but they are not suitably qualified, although they have supervised a large building project and may know where to get a good plumber. So the Board co-opts Fred a plumber on to the Board, he fixes the plumbing but stays on the Board becomes a member of the club, gets on the with the other members and after three years he can stay on the Board in his own right.
They then need someone to fix the electrics, none of the members put forward have the relevant qualifications, but as company that has had employs electrician in the past and knows about the regulations, but the Board turn him down.
Fred the plumber who is now a full Board member can co-opt is his mate Stan the electrician. The members have no involvement in this.
 
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There is a lack of transparency in this "secret society" that does not publish Board or senior management minutes. When members lack information and see huge lorries and a puppet, questions must be raised!
There are now 105,000 members according to the Chairman, that’s fantastic! As far as I can see there are only about 5 or 6 people that share your view, that leaves 104,954 members who rather like the modern, proactive work that they are doing for horses and equestrians. Seems like you would like a return to the past!
 

PAK

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There are now 105,000 members according to the Chairman, that’s fantastic! As far as I can see there are only about 5 or 6 people that share your view, that leaves 104,954 members who rather like the modern, proactive work that they are doing for horses and equestrians. Seems like you would like a return to the past!
Respectfully disagree. Some people would say that the Brexit referendum clearly demonstrated that one can not make assumptions based on silence.
 

onemoretime

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Respectfully disagree. Some people would say that the Brexit referendum clearly demonstrated that one can not make assumptions based on silence.
There are now 105,000 members according to the Chairman, that’s fantastic! As far as I can see there are only about 5 or 6 people that share your view, that leaves 104,954 members who rather like the modern, proactive work that they are doing for horses and equestrians. Seems like you would like a return to the past!
There are a great deal more than 5 or 6 people who have very serious concerns about how the BHS is being run. We don't want a return to the past, we want a positively run BHS with transparency and contact with its members. We don't want our subs spent in a spendthrift manner on horse boxes and puppets. You need to catch up with what has been said in the last week.
 

honetpot

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There are now 105,000 members according to the Chairman, that’s fantastic! As far as I can see there are only about 5 or 6 people that share your view, that leaves 104,954 members who rather like the modern, proactive work that they are doing for horses and equestrians. Seems like you would like a return to the past!
67% of income came from members, in 2017. The BHS spent £1m and a bit on IT, but its is unable to send an email to everyone it has an email for.
I think if you run anything that people give you money for, you have to be,
Open to questions, and ideas.
Transparent in how they spend your money, and give a good reason for why they have spent it,
Accountable for what they have done, an have a clear rational of why they have done it.

Until they are able to be the first two, we have no idea if they are doing a good job. From what we are hearing from all over the country, perhaps they are not doing as good a job as you thought.

We are just trying to make them accountable.
 
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PAK

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There are a great deal more than 5 or 6 people who have very serious concerns about how the BHS is being run. We don't want a return to the past, we want a positively run BHS with transparency and contact with its members. We don't want our subs spent in a spendthrift manner on horse boxes and puppets. You need to catch up with what has been said in the last week.
A
67% of income came from members, in 2017. The BHS spent £1m and a bit on IT, but its is unable to send an email to everyone it has an email for.
I think if you run anything that people give you money for, you have to be,
Open to questions, and ideas.
Transparent in how they spend your money, and give a good reason for why they have spent it,
Accountable for what they have done, an have a clear rational of why they have done it.

Until they are able to be the first two, we have no idea if they are doing a good job. From what we are hearing from all over the country, perhaps they are not doing as good a job as you thought.
Well said. We don't pay to be a member of a "secret society".
 

PAK

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Messages
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67% of income came from members, in 2017. The BHS spent £1m and a bit on IT, but its is unable to send an email to everyone it has an email for.
I think if you run anything that people give you money for, you have to be,
Open to questions, and ideas.
Transparent in how they spend your money, and give a good reason for why they have spent it,
Accountable for what they have done, an have a clear rational of why they have done it.

Until they are able to be the first two, we have no idea if they are doing a good job. From what we are hearing from all over the country, perhaps they are not doing as good a job as you thought.

We are just trying to make them accountable.
Yes 67% of income is for members but only 11% goes to welfare, safety & access. That's less that 4% each!
 
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There are now 105,000 members according to the Chairman, that’s fantastic! As far as I can see there are only about 5 or 6 people that share your view, that leaves 104,954 members who rather like the modern, proactive work that they are doing for horses and equestrians. Seems like you would like a return to the past!
Silence does not equal acquiescence or acceptance ..... a lot more than a handful of people - yes some people who have been paid a lot have done some good things but at what expense - human, horse and hard cash... End of convo
 
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I can't speak for any of the other PIOs - but all horses I know the chip of I can find there - or at least find the most basic information. But there is NO other way the database offers to 'find' a horse. My breed society's database you can search for all pure-bred Males or Females born in THAT year (owned/bred by anyone), chip no, UELN, breeder, name of horse, etc etc etc. And if it has been bred from, the same for all its registered progeny.
I am looking from a purely Welfare position on the new Database - the Breed Society etc information should be, as it is, separate and searchable by Members.
 
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Silence does not equal acquiescence or acceptance ..... a lot more than a handful of people - yes some people who have been paid a lot have done some good things but at what expense - human, horse and hard cash... End of convo
Violeta, how strange we share the same surname but not the same view. The purpose of a forum is to exchange a POV so no it is not ‘end of convo’. You have just confirmed my view that there are a very few ‘angry’ people who have a personal axe to grind or have a large bowl of sour grapes in front of them and don’t like the fact that there is another view. Yes, I return to my observation! You still do not accept that there is some great work being done by the BHS that needs applauding, without adding your blanket downers.
 

honetpot

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Oh dear, I like to hear anyones point of view, if we do not exchange ideas we can not understand.

Its just a shame you use words , 'angry' and 'personal axe to grind' , 'sour grapes', I have non of these. I just want to know that the money that I have essentially donated to the BHS over the last 30 years is being spent wisely and so far I have no evidence of that. In fact the more evidence I find the chances are its been wasted. Until someone can show me in the accounts that is not so I will kept asking questions. The BHS Trustee and Management team do not want to answer those questions.
 

Red-1

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And BHS education has been overtaken by UKCC.
I think that it may not be so just yet, but it is heading that way.

Around 6 years ago I saw that the AI was allocated points on the Govt framework, but not the II. At the time I was looking to change careers, and contacted he BHS to see if the AI could be given the Govt. Level 3, he II the govt Level 4 qualification status etc. In this way I *could* have presented my Horse qualifications as serious qualifications.

I was told to "watch this space." 6 years on, the qualifications have changed name, but I think that is just an abstract number as, when I looked, it was not on the Govt. framework.

6 years ago I said how colleges were taking students from the traditional BHS educational establishments, as mum and dad, if not horsey, would rather DD or DS had a HND or whatever, as employers understand that.

As an employee, if not applying for a horse related job, I don't even list the BHS exams, much less take the hard won certificates. The employers don't see them as relevant outside the horse world, even though there would be transferable skills. In fact, it would not portray a professional image, rather like taking your 100m swimming certificate would be seen as a bit odd. If, however, they were on the Govt. framework, level X, worth X points.... then that would be relevant.

If they have, in fact, done this then they have certainly not shouted about it.

If I had a son or daughter who wanted to do exams I would direct to a college as it is a qualification that employers understand. The UKCC is at least a qualification that I do list, as I list it as UKCC (UK Sports Council Sports Coaching Certificate - Level 3) as it sounds a lot more professional.

I did ask about people who had the BHSII getting new certification to show the new name of the exam, but did not make any headway in that. At least having a cert with level 4 written on it would have been a start. But still, I don't think the level 4 tag is any more than a self attributed number.
 

fidleyspromise

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There are now 105,000 members according to the Chairman, that’s fantastic! As far as I can see there are only about 5 or 6 people that share your view, that leaves 104,954 members who rather like the modern, proactive work that they are doing for horses and equestrians. Seems like you would like a return to the past!
I disagree as what you are seeing are the people who are passionate and vocal about this. There are plenty of us who share the same viewpoint but are reading all the material that has been produced and just because we are not jumping up and down screaming that does not mean we are not happy.
 

honetpot

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We have now 752 members of our Facebook page, which was started just over two weeks ago.
We hope even if you do not agree with our concerns about the BHS you will be better informed having read the documents posted on there. These include the changes proposed by the BHS to the Articles of Association that seem to be no longer available on the BHS website.
Through the Facebook group we have heard from people that are just as concerned as 'we' are, they just didn't know how to get their voice heard.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/membersBHS/
 
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JanetGeorge

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We have now 752 members of our Facebook page, which was started just over two weeks ago.
We hope even if you do not agree with our concerns about the BHS you will be better informed having read the documents posted on there. These include the changes proposed by the BHS to the Articles of Association that seem to be no longer available on the BHS website.
Through the Facebook group we have heard from people that are just as concerned as 'we' are, they just didn't know how to get their voice heard.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/membersBHS/
lol, and isn't it odd that several BHS staff members have tried to join the Group - including one Director. Funnily enough, they didn't answer the questions so were not accepted. Not so funny that several volunteers have been 'sacked' for daring to participate.
 

onemoretime

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lol, and isn't it odd that several BHS staff members have tried to join the Group - including one Director. Funnily enough, they didn't answer the questions so were not accepted. Not so funny that several volunteers have been 'sacked' for daring to participate.
What a perfectly nasty thing to do to sack volunteers just because they joined the FB group. That really does show the BHS up in its true colours.
 

Velcrobum

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lol, and isn't it odd that several BHS staff members have tried to join the Group - including one Director. Funnily enough, they didn't answer the questions so were not accepted. Not so funny that several volunteers have been 'sacked' for daring to participate.
That is plainly vindictive and emphasizes to me personally that management/trustees of BHS do not acknowledge the value of the volunteers who do valuable work for BHS for free and subsidize the organization.IMHO a disgusting course of action.
 

Red-1

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lol, and isn't it odd that several BHS staff members have tried to join the Group - including one Director. Funnily enough, they didn't answer the questions so were not accepted. Not so funny that several volunteers have been 'sacked' for daring to participate.
I don't understand that at all. Surely the group is to discuss the improvements that people would like in a non censored and accessible way. Sacking volunteers? Wow. Did you get that from the people concerned?

I also don't understand why they would not answer the questions. If it were my company I would prefer to be in the group to see what people were saying. But then, I would have a more open official forum on FB anyway. Not to allow nastiness but nothing wrong with exchanging views on what works or does not work.
 

honetpot

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I don't understand that at all. Surely the group is to discuss the improvements that people would like in a non censored and accessible way. Sacking volunteers? Wow. Did you get that from the people concerned?

I also don't understand why they would not answer the questions. If it were my company I would prefer to be in the group to see what people were saying. But then, I would have a more open official forum on FB anyway. Not to allow nastiness but nothing wrong with exchanging views on what works or does not work.
I think for the last two weeks that we have tried to create a 'safe space' to express their concerns.
Some the issues being discussed involve the treatment of staff an volunteers, its can be very sensitive for people to express their concerns.
I have nothing to lose, I have never worked for the BHS, and do not depend on my living by their endorsement. Like you say you would think they would be interested in what their customers think, most of their income comes from them, but its seems they would rather silence them, and ignore them.
They make changes with telling the membership, hand have conveniently made it so they do not hold AGM, or vote Trustees from the membership.
They only told people about the 5th January because they had to, and then they made it difficult for members to access information.
 
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