Annagain
Well-Known Member
I know there's also a lot of discontent at the way BRC was effectively taken over by BHS and is a lot less accountable to its members as a result.
Another British Horse Society c**k-up
- Thread starter JanetGeorge
- Start date
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Whilst, I feel sorry for any-one who sustains injuries in a riding accident, might this provide an opportunity for someone else to get in there and sort out what is going on?
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
lol, I'll bet most of the staff are quietly hoping for complications!
only_me
Well-Known Member
It’s never right to be pleased of someone else’s misfortune, especially regarding their health.
Rowreach
👀
I agree. I'm finding the whole thread a bit unpleasant tbh.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
No - I guess it isn't 'nice' to make a joke about someone else's injuries - but then it isn't nice to harass, and bully dedicated staff either!
only_me
Well-Known Member
2 wrongs doesn’t make it right.
Rowreach
👀
But it's ok to start a thread on a public forum, accusing someone of all sorts of stuff and inciting unpleasant comments about them?
I find this whole thing deeply unpleasant and unprofessional.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Actually most of this thread is about the reasons for the high turnover of staff, and the large amount of money spent on termination payments and legal fees, plus the puchase of a modified horse lorry for a £138,000. This public knowledge in the 2017 accounts. As a long standing BHS member with no axe to grind, I would like to know why.
Without any further information on why there is a high turnover of staff and what appears to be a huge amount of middle management people, speculate as to the cause. I am sorry if that offends you and you find it unpleasant, but in no way is it unprofessional. Perhaps if there were some answers people would stop asking.
A simple plan of how to reduce staff turnover and address costs, perhaps. As it is there are more holes in the accounts than an old woolly vest, but seen as they no longer hold an AGM its difficult to see how ordinary members can act. To kick off I would like a £ per mile/ per event running cost of the lorry, with the business case for it.
Without any further information on why there is a high turnover of staff and what appears to be a huge amount of middle management people, speculate as to the cause. I am sorry if that offends you and you find it unpleasant, but in no way is it unprofessional. Perhaps if there were some answers people would stop asking.
A simple plan of how to reduce staff turnover and address costs, perhaps. As it is there are more holes in the accounts than an old woolly vest, but seen as they no longer hold an AGM its difficult to see how ordinary members can act. To kick off I would like a £ per mile/ per event running cost of the lorry, with the business case for it.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Perhaps we could have a Where's Wally thread for every time the bus/lorry is seen out.
Rowreach
👀
Yes exactly, and the reasons for the high turnover of staff are being placed at the feet of one particular person (who I don't know/have had no dealings with) and have been extremely personal. Starting a thread on a horse forum (and indeed for several people, joining a forum for the specific purpose of commenting on that thread) to have a go at one person in an organisation which those people are clearly all involved with in some way is, by any definition, unprofessional.
Bullying takes many forms. Saying that someone injuring themselves in a riding fall is "karma" or that staff at the BHS will be hoping for complications is abhorrent imv.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Well how do you suggest it should be handled, Rowreach? A letter to the Board, perhaps?? It's been done - and got someone sacked! And a lot more people bullied and threatened. Maybe I am wasting my time (I can live with that); maybe the people who are helping are also wasting their time (they can live with that too.) What we CAN'T live with is more bullying and harrassment of hard-working staff - and what SHOULD be a very good organisation losing support and credibility! If you think you know another way, please share it!
Rowreach
👀
As I have said twice before, the BHS is a clique and always has been, although you say it isn't ..... But the trouble with any cliquey organisation is that it gradually becomes unaccountable to its members - and then when something goes wrong, and the people within the organisation look to stop it happening, it is no longer possible to do it along normal channels.
I suggest you involve the Charity Commission, or Martin Clunes, who although a figurehead is high profile enough not to want to let something like this be swept under the mat, lest it creeps out again unexpectedly.
With your many years of experience in large organisations JG, I am surprised you would go down the route of personal attacks on a public forum.
I suggest you involve the Charity Commission, or Martin Clunes, who although a figurehead is high profile enough not to want to let something like this be swept under the mat, lest it creeps out again unexpectedly.
With your many years of experience in large organisations JG, I am surprised you would go down the route of personal attacks on a public forum.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
No - I totally disagree with you about it being a clique. Martin Clunes and the Charity Commissioners are on my list - as are a couple of national journalists. But to get action from all, I need evidence and people prepared to stand up. That is the purpose of this thread - and I'm happy to say it is working. If there was a better route, be assured I would have taken it. The Charity Commissioners are limited in what they can do in this sort of case. Martin Clunes is a high profile 'figurehead' - also a relatively new horse owner and lover. He would want to be VERY sure of detail before a high profile resignation - or a demand for a public inquiry. And national journalists I know a bit about - they want sexy FACTS - and evidence - and people prepared to be quoted. And of course it needs members to be AWARE, asking questions, and perhaps attending an EGM.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I agree with this. Anyone who rides horses will, one day, fall off. There but for the grace of God go all of us.
I am no fan of the way the BHS operates. I find it unbusinesslike. I think it is cliquey and inefficient. I have found that some people in it are unprofessional. BUT I would never revel in the injury of anyone.
I do not know the CEO, never heard of her before this thread. I do not know what is happening within the BHS. I do know that sometimes when you try to change longstanding cliquey organisations then it is easy to claim bullying. People do not like change. I think the BHS does need change. I too would like more transparency to see what is going on in this charity. If it were a private company I would have less interest. Maybe he CEO is unpopular because she is driving change? Who knows? Not me.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
As a BHS Gold member I'd like to think that the charity I have been a member of for many years continues to be worthy of my long time respect for it. It certainly sounds like there are serious issues currently within the BHS, but launching character attacks on named officials (past and present) on an open forum is going to end messily. JG, thanks for taking up the cudgel, but maybe modify your tactics?
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Sadly, modified tactics would mean it all went on the same way. There ARE messy possibilities (my OH is worried I'll get sued for libel - but I'm not because telling the truth is NOT libel.) Given the FACTS I have been reading in the past couple of days, there is no doubt in my mind that BHS needs a new Chairman, a few new Board members (like the ones who were blocked this year because they were considered 'unsuitable'), a new Chief Executive and perhaps a few other staff replacements too. A strong Board that does it's job and ensures things are run properly would be a great start.
Rowreach
👀
Actually you can most definitely be sued for defamation, including stuff that has been written on an internet forum. It will be up to you to prove the validity of your statements in court. Probably not worth testing really.
Taken from the new Ts&Cs:
6.2 Users who posts defamatory, obscene, racial or otherwise offensive material on this Forum acknowledge that this may expose them to the risk of legal action (whether civil or criminal) being taken against them.
Taken from the new Ts&Cs:
- Clause 4 - Users Obligations
- Clause 6 - Termination
6.2 Users who posts defamatory, obscene, racial or otherwise offensive material on this Forum acknowledge that this may expose them to the risk of legal action (whether civil or criminal) being taken against them.
SO1
Well-Known Member
If staff are being bullied it is terrible.
I do think some of the outputs of the BHS have improved over the last few years, I like the outreach work they have done with disadvantaged children and also the friends at the end scheme. They also seem to have engaged with British Cycling recently and the ebulletins have improved with more welfare articles and tips rather than just reporting on what Committees and regions were doing mainly around competitions and training which I found a little dull.
In terms of Charity governance it appears that the CEO was the Chair of Trustees at one point and then was promoted to CEO. It is quite unusual for a Trustee to become the CEO. I can understand internal promotions from amongst the staff but quite unusual for volunteer board member to take on the most senior paid role. It must have been very difficult for the Board Members to interview the Chair for the role of the CEO and not show unconscious bias.
The CEO will report to the Board, complaints about the CEO should go to the Chair of Board. Members wanting to complain about the CEO could also raise their concerns with the President of the Society.
Governance is a real issue for many charities when those responsible for the charity money and governance are ultimately elected volunteers who may be passionate about the cause but have little or no experience of managing a charity or any sort of organisation of this size.
What they really need are a couple of lay trustees who have no interest in horses at all but who come from a senior management background and can help with unbiased advice. It is the way to go for good charity governance having some trustees who will not benefit from the work of the charity.
As members we can ask questions for more clarity on the professional fees and what they were for. We can raise concerns about the high staff turnover. What we cannot do is accuse people of bullying without evidence as that may be considered bullying as well.
I do think some of the outputs of the BHS have improved over the last few years, I like the outreach work they have done with disadvantaged children and also the friends at the end scheme. They also seem to have engaged with British Cycling recently and the ebulletins have improved with more welfare articles and tips rather than just reporting on what Committees and regions were doing mainly around competitions and training which I found a little dull.
In terms of Charity governance it appears that the CEO was the Chair of Trustees at one point and then was promoted to CEO. It is quite unusual for a Trustee to become the CEO. I can understand internal promotions from amongst the staff but quite unusual for volunteer board member to take on the most senior paid role. It must have been very difficult for the Board Members to interview the Chair for the role of the CEO and not show unconscious bias.
The CEO will report to the Board, complaints about the CEO should go to the Chair of Board. Members wanting to complain about the CEO could also raise their concerns with the President of the Society.
Governance is a real issue for many charities when those responsible for the charity money and governance are ultimately elected volunteers who may be passionate about the cause but have little or no experience of managing a charity or any sort of organisation of this size.
What they really need are a couple of lay trustees who have no interest in horses at all but who come from a senior management background and can help with unbiased advice. It is the way to go for good charity governance having some trustees who will not benefit from the work of the charity.
As members we can ask questions for more clarity on the professional fees and what they were for. We can raise concerns about the high staff turnover. What we cannot do is accuse people of bullying without evidence as that may be considered bullying as well.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Gee, ta, Rowreach. I have considerable experience regarding the laws of defamation. I am also aware of H&H's terms. My risk (and you still haven't come up with any useful ideas!)
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Believe me, SO1 - I have a LOT of evidence - written - about bullying and harassment of staff; and staff ready to speak out.
Rowreach
👀
I don't have to. I'm merely saying that this method isn't a good one.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Gee, Rowreach. It's so easy to say 'that's wrong', 'that's bad', 'I wouldn't do it that way.' But please keep on wasting our time - at least it keeps this thread near the top where it will be seen by people who care - and who want to help.
NatashaE
New User
As the former Marketing & Communications Director, there are people within the British Horse Society who I still care deeply for. Unfortunately, our actions whether positive or negative on this forum, impact those that continue to work there. For that I am deeply sorry. However as I have already publicly acknowledged my thoughts on the treatment of Wendy Suddes, I will share these thoughts with you in this forum - I'm appalled at how Wendy Suddes has been treated at The British Horse Society. I have never met anyone so dedicated and committed to ensuring the welfare of the horse is paramount. For the future success of The British Horse Society the truth must come out.
Jangigs
New User
z
I totally agree. Wendy was my colleague too and horses are at the heart of everything she does. She worked tirelessly for their welfare in every area. She is knowledgeable, caring and hard working. Always there at what ever time of day. She is a brave lady who spoke out for the good of the Society she believed in and cared for
SO1
Well-Known Member
I know Union membership is a little controversial due to their political alliances but if there is a problem that affects the remaining staff then they might want to consider joining a union, free legal advice and representation should they need it.
https://worksmart.org.uk/tools/union-finder
https://www.unitelegalservices.org/services/employment-law
https://worksmart.org.uk/tools/union-finder
https://www.unitelegalservices.org/services/employment-law
GHamlet75
Well-Known Member
I think the BHS will always be in debt of the work that Wendy did. Come rain or shine she was out there dedicating her life to helping horses. I don’t think in the 17 years that she worked there that she ever slept! It’s hard to pick out highlights from her career but I think her work to set up the castration clinics made a significant difference to horse welfare.
McFluff
Well-Known Member
I write this as a long standing BHS gold member, I have no other allegiance. I am a Director for a charity (not horses), and as a comparison, we have a turnover of £30M, a CEO and three directors, and 1000 staff (mostly front line delivery). Our pay levels are below those quoted (and are benchmarked for the charity sector), so there are definitely some governance and operational issues that need addressing. And, as a comparison, in my experience £70K would cover about 3 years of legal and settlement costs, so these seem very high - it should flag to the Board that they have issues that need addressing (along with high turnover etc.). I have no idea why they have a Director of HR for such a small number of staff (at most they could have an experience advisor or manager, but probably more effective to outsource), and reading the ET summary, I am appalled by the obvious lack of either a) competence or b) influence that they have. I genuinely believe that nobody with CIPD qualifications would have allowed that to get to that state - so they are either in the wrong role, or they are being controlled/stopped from doing things correctly. If it is the latter, then that points to a horrible culture, which the current governance structure will not let them get to the bottom of.
Sadly for all concerned, if bullying is happening, it will be very difficult to prove or evidence. Especially if it is at a senior level (or if it is rife in the culture and has become a general way of working). It takes a lot of bravery to speak up, and it is a long and difficult journey - it shouldn't be, but IME it is as it is so difficult to get reliable evidence and robust enough governance to actually take action.
For those of us who are members, our best action is perhaps to contact the President and just ask how comfortable are they with how the organisation is being operated (ref. to turnover, top heavy structure, rate of ET/legal claims). This is such a sad situation - especially as it does appear that some really good work is happening too.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
Thanks, McFluff. You picked up a number of things that were to the forefront of my mind. And you're right, quite a lot of good work is happening - but some CRAZY errors and misjudgements too. It certainly isn't going to be easy to see this sorted. The Board appears to be weak - and under the CEO's thumb. Two Trustee vacancies were not filled this year because - although two Members were properly nominated - it was decided they were 'unsuitable'. Goodness knows why - or even if there is a 'right' to decline properly nominated people for vacancies that exist. (Trying to work THAT out in the constitution is doing my head in.)