Another British Horse Society c**k-up

[ester]

Is there something in the water?

Welsh pony and cob society today

Statement by Chair of Council

As Chairman of Council, I would like to clarify the Council's present position on behalf of my fellow Board of trustees.
There seem to be certain members, ex-trustees and an ex-member of staff that are putting out unfounded criticism against the Council on social media sites.

I would like to inform the members openly and honestly of where we are:

Finances

The Society is financially sound. In my opinion, unnecessary legal expense has been caused by trustees and members, but that is something that our Chairman of Finance will deliver in his annual report.

Staff

We have lost experienced staff because they have resigned. To date and prior, we have not had any employment claims against the Society. We also remind the ex-member of staff who seems to challenge the decisions of Council on social media that the opportunity was there for her to re-apply for a position that was created by a restructuring process, which was advised by our auditors and was carried out by a professional HR Company.

Very recently, we have lost two very competent members of staff because of claims of bullying by certain trustees and members and also a lack of confidentiality by trustees.

Temporary staff, will be employed when required as we are no different to any other organisation.

HR matters are strictly private and confidential for the Board of trustees to address. We have employment law to follow and a comprehensive Staff Handbook to follow.

Staff matters are close to our hearts. As their employers we have a duty of care to the staff, and we will take all steps which are reasonably possible to ensure their wellbeing.

Trustees and volunteers

Let me assure members that, trustees and volunteers have worked for days to assist staff. I would also remind the persons who unkindly berate us, that this is done free of charge, with some travelling hundreds of miles on separate occasions.

Meeting the Minimum Operating Standards

The staff inform me of where we are with compliance. I always update the Board of our position regarding compliance. There has been a problem because of staff leaving, that is not because of me or most of my fellow trustees, some have left of their own accord which is an option open to every employee in the country.

Staff levels are always monitored by the HR & Finance Committee and reports go to full Council, we will continue to monitor and adjust when necessary.

There have been problems with the telephone answering system and we are addressing this with our hard working team of staff, who I remind the membership have been hit with a high demand for passports for the forthcoming autumn sales.

I would like to apologise to my fellow members about the lack of response regarding phone calls. I give you my word that it is being addressed and that this will not happen in the future.

Finally, I remind the members that Governance is always being monitored by my fellow Vicechair of Council, we do our very best to comply with this. We have to comply with our Articles of Association and Charity and Company law. There are also many more legislative matters that are put before us; we have to deal with all of them. Sometimes decisions are not popular to you or Council, but when we make them it is a necessity based upon evidence.

GDPR has created a lot of work for the staff and trustees, we have to be very observant, that we stay within the guidelines, if we fail, it may cause serious financial risks to the assets of your Society.

Social Media and Internet Policy

I would remind the minority of members who choose to berate me and my fellow trustees and staff unfairly on social media, that we will consider enforcing the above policy, when any material which could damage the name or reputation of The Welsh Pony and Cob Society, its members or former members, or which is derogatory to the character of or prejudicial to the interests of The Welsh Pony and Cob Society is published on the web.

We work tirelessly and voluntarily for you all. Above all we always aim to treat you all as fairly and equally as possible. We accept constructive criticism, but there is an element out there, in my view, for whatever reason trying to bring the good name of this great Society into disrepute. Finally, I remind members; we do aim and will continue to work for your best interests. The Council changes every year, we have been left situations that we have been criticised for, that are not of our doing and I am sure this will happen in the future, nothing in this world is perfect!

I promise you also that no internal matters are or have been swept under the carpet and have been dealt with as per rules of the Society, as all members must abide by.

Chair of Council, John Kirk.

 

[Blazingsaddles]

*Conspiracy Theorist Alert* from reading comments I understand that a few members have resigned reluctantly/encouraged out😉. I realise I sound completely bonkers, but is there some sort of ‘fiddle’ going on? I mean, you employ a person who you then make redundant after a comparatively short time with redundancy pay?

 

[JanetGeorge]

*Conspiracy Theorist Alert* from reading comments I understand that a few members have resigned reluctantly/encouraged out😉. I realise I sound completely bonkers, but is there some sort of ‘fiddle’ going on? I mean, you employ a person who you then make redundant after a comparatively short time with redundancy pay?

Wouldn't be wrth it. You have to be in the job for 2 years to be entitled to redundancy payments - and then it's only half a day for each fuill year. Of course, redundancy does COST the employer and the employee might also go for unfair dismissal - which can cost a lot! So 'encouraging' an employee to resign is far cheaper!

 

[HectorTTerry]

I have been looking at expenditure in the BHS from the annual accounts. Expenditure for Membership from 2012 until 2017 has remained static. However, at the same time expenditure for IT has grown exponentially. In 2012 The British Horse Society spent £258,869 on IT. In 2017 The British Horse Society spent £1,093,000, demonstrating a 322% increase in expenditure. Under the current CE there has been a total expenditure of £3,962,126 on IT. In 2012 and 2013 there is mention of investment in two different CRM databases, however nothing is then reported until 2017, where The British Horse Society announced they are reviewing their Information Systems. There are 3 full time permanent members of staff in IT with a spend of over a million pounds in one year. I would like to understand how 4 million pounds has been spent on IT in such a small organisation (112 employees), without any detail revealed as to the need of this expenditure.

 

[JanetGeorge]

There are 3 full time permanent members of staff in IT with a spend of over a million pounds in one year. I would like to understand how 4 million pounds has been spent on IT in such a small organisation (112 employees), without any detail revealed as to the need of this expenditure.

Ah - you forget about the IT consultants - and none of them can make the system work properly!

Ah - my OH (who has been 'big' in It for 40 years - so knows his stuff) says it is NOT an IT problem - it is a rash of absolutely stupid management decisions. Of COURSE the IT consultants will recommend more expenditure and more systems. He says it is mostly due to different departments getting different systems in for their OWN needs - no sensible overall strategy.

 

[GHamlet75]

How much?!

And what has The BHS got to show for £4m?! I can’t renew my membership online, I know innumerable APCs who have had endless issues with renewing their membership (some finding out they weren’t insured when they thought they were), and I can see no evidence of where this money is going because everything still seems manually generated (e.g. when a friend booked onto doing an exam recently, everything was confirmed by post). Is it just me who is struggling to see how this money has been spent? Yet another way of the CE spending people’s donations with nothing to show for.

 

[GHamlet75]

Ah - you forget about the IT consultants - and none of them can make the system work properly!

Ah - my OH (who has been 'big' in It for 40 years - so knows his stuff) says it is NOT an IT problem - it is a rash of absolutely stupid management decisions. Of COURSE the IT consultants will recommend more expenditure and more systems. He says it is mostly due to different departments getting different systems in for their OWN needs - no sensible overall strategy.

JanetGeorge I couldn't agree more!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Statutory redundancy pay is one week's pay for every year employed by the company, if you are under the age of 41 yrs and 1 1/2 weeks apy for every year you have been employed aged 41 and over

 

[GHamlet75]

Wow we've reached 25,000 views really quickly!
Thanks to everyone for continuing to share this with the equestrian world

 

[JanetGeorge]

Ruddy typos - have just found that I mistyped my email address way back on this thread - sorry about that. Anyone who has tried, please send again to janetgeorgeATirish-draught.net And anyone else who can help but doesn't want to go public, please e-mail me too.

 

[SO1]

It is very easy to spend that sort of money on IT, especially if it is outsourced to third party suppliers. Some of these website agencies will be charging £1000 a day for development work or consultancy. If there is web integration involved with a database and you outsource development work it can soon rack up.

If they have revamped or had a new website and it was outsourced and there is complex data integration and it done through an agency it could easily cost 1 million.

A new CRM database could cost at least 250k.

I do think they might have a governance issue 11% of their staff seems to be Director level or above. I would question if having such a high percentage of their staff at this level is a good use of charity money. Most charities of this size would have a senior management team of 5 rather than 13.

They have also spent 600k more than their income - it might be a deliberate expenditure to reduce their reserves, charities cannot hold too much money in reserve.

I have been looking at expenditure in the BHS from the annual accounts. Expenditure for Membership from 2012 until 2017 has remained static. However, at the same time expenditure for IT has grown exponentially. In 2012 The British Horse Society spent £258,869 on IT. In 2017 The British Horse Society spent £1,093,000, demonstrating a 322% increase in expenditure. Under the current CE there has been a total expenditure of £3,962,126 on IT. In 2012 and 2013 there is mention of investment in two different CRM databases, however nothing is then reported until 2017, where The British Horse Society announced they are reviewing their Information Systems. There are 3 full time permanent members of staff in IT with a spend of over a million pounds in one year. I would like to understand how 4 million pounds has been spent on IT in such a small organisation (112 employees), without any detail revealed as to the need of this expenditure.

 

[HectorTTerry]

It is very easy to spend that sort of money on IT, especially if it is outsourced to third party suppliers. Some of these website agencies will be charging £1000 a day for development work or consultancy. If there is web integration involved with a database and you outsource development work it can soon rack up.

If they have revamped or had a new website and it was outsourced and there is complex data integration and it done through an agency it could easily cost 1 million.

A new CRM database could cost at least 250k.

I do think they might have a governance issue 11% of their staff seems to be Director level or above. I would question if having such a high percentage of their staff at this level is a good use of charity money. Most charities of this size would have a senior management team of 5 rather than 13.

They have also spent 600k more than their income - it might be a deliberate expenditure to reduce their reserves, charities cannot hold too much money in reserve.

Hi SO1
Yes the expenditure could have been on the website, were it not for the information in the 2012 annual report that states that the new website was launched in that year when expenditure was at its lowest. Therefore the increase in expenditure must be related to other IT activity.

You make a good point on the overall expenditure of the organisation. Charities should not hold too much money in reserve but this should not result in frivolous spending either.

 

[GHamlet75]

Anyone else being pestered by the BHS on Facebook? I keep getting different posts that start to show a number of negative comments, which then get pulled (we don't seem to be the only members unhappy). This particularly post says membership £5.75 p/month. I agree with these comments, I'm not paying £5.75 for mine. Anyone else find this unfair that new members get to pay less?

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

Can anyone point me towards the Registered Interests of both Trustees and Directors on the BHS website?

 

[teacups]

Those figures for redundancy payments are the statutory (legal) *minimum* payable. The directors' contracts may well give them enhanced terms, or entitlement to other severance payments.

 

[HectorTTerry]

Can anyone point me towards the Registered Interests of both Trustees and Directors on the BHS website?

Hi The Bouncing Bog Trotter

The only detail regarding the trustees is available here http://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/about-us-and-our-work/our-people/trustees
There is some limited information about the CE here http://www.bhs.org.uk/our-charity/about-us-and-our-work/our-people

I can’t find anything about the directors on the website. In the annual report there are job names and titles:
Chief Operating Officer - Sarah Phillips
Director, Finance - Duncan Snook
Director, Membership - Emma Day
Director, Education - Alex Copeland
Director, Human Resources - Alison Macdonald
Director, Welfare - Gemma Stanford
Director, Safety - Alan Hiscox
Director, Access - Mark Weston
Director, Fundraising - Tracy Casstles
Director, Business Development - Georgina Walters
Director, Marketing and Communications - Vacant
Director, Technology - Vacant

 

[Andalusiandreams]

Anyone else being pestered by the BHS on Facebook? I keep getting different posts that start to show a number of negative comments, which then get pulled (we don't seem to be the only members unhappy). This particularly post says membership £5.75 p/month. I agree with these comments, I'm not paying £5.75 for mine. Anyone else find this unfair that new members get to pay less? View attachment 26411

The cost you pay is an annual membership but depends on when the collection is taken in the month. They have two collection dates. This will then determine how much you pay monthly but will add up to the correct and same amount overall annually.

 

[GHamlet75]

The cost you pay is an annual membership but depends on when the collection is taken in the month. They have two collection dates. This will then determine how much you pay monthly but will add up to the correct and same amount overall annually.

Thanks Andalusiandreams. Still not sure I follow though. Regardless of what time of month we pay, shouldn't it be the same? On the website it's also advertising £5.75 a month (https://www.bhs.org.uk/membership/types-of-memberships/gold-membership) but you can see from my post that I shared that other people are being charged different amounts. I just think this is misleading

 

[Andalusiandreams]

Hi SO1
Yes the expenditure could have been on the website, were it not for the information in the 2012 annual report that states that the new website was launched in that year when expenditure was at its lowest. Therefore the increase in expenditure must be related to other IT activity.

You make a good point on the overall expenditure of the organisation. Charities should not hold too much money in reserve but this should not result in frivolous spending either.

The majority of the

Thanks Andalusiandreams. Still not sure I follow though. Regardless of what time of month we pay, shouldn't it be the same? On the website it's also advertising £5.75 a month (https://www.bhs.org.uk/membership/types-of-memberships/gold-membership) but you can see from my post that I shared that other people are being charged different amounts. I just think this is misleading

I agree it is misleading but it works on the collection date which may mean that you only have 11 collections depending on when you joined and when your collection date is set up rather than 12 which means your annual cost is divided by 11 for example £67/11=£6.09 rather than the £67 over 12 months @ £5.58. A full breakdown should be provided with your DD schedule of payments but if you don’t have it email/call and they can send you one.

 

[GHamlet75]

Gosh that's the most clarity I've had about membership in a long time! Thanks Andalusiandreams. Any idea why it differs between 11 and 12 months as I thought a monthly payment means every month and as there are 12 months in a year that this should correlate?

 

[Andalusiandreams]

Hi SO1
Yes the expenditure could have been on the website, were it not for the information in the 2012 annual report that states that the new website was launched in that year when expenditure was at its lowest. Therefore the increase in expenditure must be related to other IT activity.

You make a good point on the overall expenditure of the organisation. Charities should not hold too much money in reserve but this should not result in frivolous spending either.

The majority of the

Thanks Andalusiandreams. Still not sure I follow though. Regardless of what time of month we pay, shouldn't it be the same? On the website it's also advertising £5.75 a month (https://www.bhs.org.uk/membership/types-of-memberships/gold-membership) but you can see from my post that I shared that other people are being charged different amounts. I just think this is misleading

I agree it is misleading but it works on the collection date which may mean that you only have 11 collections rather than 12 which means your annual cost is divided by 11 for example £67/11=£6.09 rather than the £67 over 12 months @ £5.75

Gosh that's the most clarity I've had about membership in a long time! Thanks Andalusiandreams. Any idea why it differs between 11 and 12 months as I thought a monthly payment means every month and as there are 12 months in a year that this should correlate?

It should do yes but not with the system they have. If you start your membership after the first collection date then you have to be pushed to the next available collection date which may not be until the second month of your membership depending on the time scales involved. Therefore all your benefits are active from the moment you officially join your payment collection dates have to take place over a shorter amount of time therefore increasing the monthly amount. This means that although your membership runs for a full 12 months your payments are condensed to 11 for example allowing for the full amount to be taken but in a shorter amount of time which increases the monthly amount to allow for that. Apologies if I am not explaining myself particularly well -
This is from a while ago although I don’t think things have changed.

 

[GHamlet75]

The majority of the


I agree it is misleading but it works on the collection date which may mean that you only have 11 collections rather than 12 which means your annual cost is divided by 11 for example £67/11=£6.09 rather than the £67 over 12 months @ £5.75


It should do yes but not with the system they have. If you start your membership after the first collection date then you have to be pushed to the next available collection date which may not be until the second month of your membership depending on the time scales involved. Therefore all your benefits are active from the moment you officially join your payment collection dates have to take place over a shorter amount of time therefore increasing the monthly amount. This means that although your membership runs for a full 12 months your payments are condensed to 11 for example allowing for the full amount to be taken but in a shorter amount of time which increases the monthly amount to allow for that. Apologies if I am not explaining myself particularly well -
This is from a while ago although I don’t think things have changed.

Thanks for being patient with me Andalusiandreams! I think I follow. So in short, the BHS has invested £4m of members donations into IT with the result that it can't even execute a straight forward monthly payment. Wow... I agree with SO1, I think there's definitely a governance issue!

 

[GHamlet75]

Can anyone point me towards the Registered Interests of both Trustees and Directors on the BHS website?

Hi The Bouncing Bog Trotter (wonderful name!)

It's a good questions about registered interests. Shame nothing is available.
If you google the Safety Director this comes up straight away https://www.gov.uk/employment-tribu...horse-society-and-mr-alan-hiscox-1303008-2016
If you google the HR Director this comes up https://assets.publishing.service.g...ritish_Horse_Society_1303008_2016_reasons.pdf

I know the tribunal is not new news on this forum but I still find it staggering what occurred and how BHS managed to keep this under wraps.

 

[JanetGeorge]

Well - it appears it is not just staff being forced to resign. I have heard that last week practically an entire Regional Committee of volunteers has resigned - lack of confidence in the CE and the Board!

 

[Lovethebeach]

Well - it appears it is not just staff being forced to resign. I have heard that last week practically an entire Regional Committee of volunteers has resigned - lack of confidence in the CE and the Board!

Oh no, goes from bad to worse!! As an Access Officer I am getting very concerned :-( could you PM me with which region please if you don't want to name them publicly

 

[Bow1973]

I thought I'd investigate this a little further. I have gone through each of the annual reports from when the current CE started at the BHS (appointed 26 November 2012).

Janet you are correct. When the CE started she had a team of 5 directors. In 5 years she has increased the number of directors to 12, which is an increase of 140%. There are now double the number of employees being paid between £60,000 and £130,000.

In 5 years, she has made 21 changes to the director positions (ie changes to the job title and/or remit). During her time she has employed 19 new directors. Out of the 19 new directors, 58% (11 directors) have resigned or no longer work for the organisation.

The average turnover of management in the UK is 3.1%.

I have experienced the BHS underhanded ways and believe

As members what can we do?

We need to start a vote of no confidence in the current CEO, directors & possibly trustees and some employees as they are aware and allowing this to happen and get them out!! Get as many people & members to join and sign it. Its hard to identify the individual people in it so people should sign. No idea how to get this actully started though but happy to help. I have first hand experience of the treatment the BHS HQ and employees give members.

 

[Bow1973]

Well - it appears it is not just staff being forced to resign. I have heard that last week practically an entire Regional Committee of volunteers has resigned - lack of confidence in the CE and the Board!

A vote of no confidence for the current CEO, directors, some trustees and employees and needs to be made by the members to get them out & some genuine people running it or shut it down and expand the WHW with the qualifications.

 

[GHamlet75]

Well - it appears it is not just staff being forced to resign. I have heard that last week practically an entire Regional Committee of volunteers has resigned - lack of confidence in the CE and the Board!

Do you have any more detail you could share with us JanetGeorge?

 

[GHamlet75]

I have experienced the BHS underhanded ways and believe


We need to start a vote of no confidence in the current CEO, directors & possibly trustees and some employees as they are aware and allowing this to happen and get them out!! Get as many people & members to join and sign it. Its hard to identify the individual people in it so people should sign. No idea how to get this actully started though but happy to help. I have first hand experience of the treatment the BHS HQ and employees give members.

I agree Bow1973 but when the CE controls so many members it won't be easy (e.g. employees are members, riding schools are members, APCs are members...)

 

[JanetGeorge]

I agree Bow1973 but when the CE controls so many members it won't be easy (e.g. employees are members, riding schools are members, APCs are members...)

You are so right, GHamlet75 - it won't be easy. But she can't stay teflon-coated for MUCH longer. People are speaking up and the Board will eventually have to remove thumbs from ears.