Another Question about the RAW diet

This is what i meant, dogs meet the vast majority of their needs through bone and meat, but if given the chance they will eat some level of vegetation/fruit for its fibre and nutrients. Dogs cannot convert the nutrients in the stomach of their prey like other animals such as cats can. They need a small level of vegetation which they will balance themselves, hence why they eat grass, not only to make themselves sick but also to use as a binding agent and fibre.
I agree they only need this in very small quantities and will self-regulate how much they need.
I don't personally agree that dogs are carnivores as they will eat vegetation through choice and they are designed to be omnivores. I can however understand the idea that they are almost like carnivores as they require very little veg.
 
I would not personally categorise a dog as an omnivore based on the fact that they can choose to eat other things, a scavenger, survivor and opportunist certainly yes but not a true omnivore.

A true omnivore like the Human needs a variety of foods from diverse sources in order to survive. A human cannot just eat meat and bones without adverse effects on health, a dog certainly can. Dogs have no dietary requirement for carbohydrates their energy source is protein and fat, just because a dog can be fed sugars does not change the fact that they have not evolved to use them effectively. They also have the ability to manufacture the major vitamins within their body that we have to get from plants.

The dentition and the digestive system of a healthy dog is all geared up to quickly ingest and digest bits of other animal, it has powerful crushing jaws and it’s teeth are razor sharp and most importantly so are it’s molars, where as ours are broader and flatter and with our jaw muscles and shape enable us to chew and break down plant cell walls, same with bears that are also omnivores. A dog is not set up to chew with it’s jaw and it’s teeth cannot grind, nor does it release enzymes to break down sugars in the mouth like we do, if allowed to it tears great chunks and swallows them, the stomach is where it all takes place with high acidity, but high acidity does not allow for the breakdown of plant cells. A Tiger shark will eat anything it comes across fruit, veg, bits of cars etc but that does not make it an omnivore and its teeth and gut are designed to tear and eat flesh like a dog does on land.

The biggest pointer to carnivore is that a dog can only gain nutrients from plants with outside help, in the wild it can get this from it’s prey in small amounts in the guts or green tripe as we call it, but like I said in winter a wolf would get nothing from this as most herbivores are eating lichens or parts of trees just for something to nibble on and living off their fat reserves. In the domestic raw diet a dog can get nutrients from plants if we bash them in the liquidiser, but you sould always bear in mind that any nutrients from plants are not as good a quality as those from the natural meat diet.

So it’s not a necessity at all for a dog to eat any veg, but equally in small amounts fed in as natural diet it can be helpful particularly as we as humans rarely feed our dogs enough of their natural fibre, bones, teeth, claws, beaks, fur and feathers, and if dogs likes it and it’s good quality green/root veg and not cereal then why not? But equally a dog fed quality raw meaty bones of different species (the largest part of the diet), offal especially liver and eggs will have all it’s vitamin, mineral, protein/amino acid, essential fatty acid and antioxidant requirements in the correct proportions and of the highest quality for canines without feeding any vegetable matter.

So really what I am saying is that adding veg is a personal choice for the owner not an absolute necessity for the dog. What I don’t like to see is the diet getting “corrupted” further down the line where it suddenly becomes essential to feed large amounts of veg, then further adding pasta, dairy etc all at the expense of the raw meaty bones, and they are the vital element.
 
I'm discovering the benefits of Christmas, having asked about ordering chicken carcasses and being told it was too close to Christmas to get any. The butcher then offered me remnants of turkey: I got a bag weighing about 3 stones, dragged it down the street to the car!

I butchered turkey carcasses, bagged the huge wings and the perfect looking bones and froze the lot. It must be a good couple of weeks' worth of bones with tons of meat attached, all for free! He was going to throw it out!:eek:

Am just stupidly gutted cos all the cheap turkeys that will be on sale in 2 days won't fit in my now stuffed freezer!
 
Just posted a pic of the boys Xmas dinner two huge turkey carcasses, even they could not eat it all in one day though they tried and were as stuffed as me!! Got a couple of crowns for me reduced to silly prices but no more room in the freezer like you I find it really hard not to buy it a stupid prices, though it's still cold enough to keep it outside I suppose!!!
 
KarynK said:
Just posted a pic of the boys Xmas dinner two huge turkey carcasses, even they could not eat it all in one day though they tried and were as stuffed as me!! Got a couple of crowns for me reduced to silly prices but no more room in the freezer like you I find it really hard not to buy it a stupid prices, though it's still cold enough to keep it outside I suppose!!!
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We're getting a big thaw here, everything's dripping!

I gave Brig turkey carcass for tea yesterday and he took ages to eat it: I think he's just not a big enough dog to cope! The pups had some wings and were in heaven: I think their teeth and jaws are getting very strong as they were switched to raw before their adult teeth came in properly.:)
 
Just been catching up on all the posts about raw diet what does barf stand for?.Could you also tell me if you feed outside cant imagine having dead carcass all over my tiles or carpets lol.My pup is about 18 weeks Im very interested in raw diet as Im fed up with studying all packet food for pups . I remember my parents discussing their first dog (49 yrs ago) being on raw diet and how hard it was if they went on holiday.
I have australian shepherd and would be very grateful for tips on amount and type of feed he would be on if I swap.On negative side Ive just purchased two large bags of puppy food:mad::D
Is it best to switch over to all one type of feed.
 
Yes it is best to switch over to one type of feed. You can't feed raw and kibble together on the same day.

As for holidays if we take the dog with us we stop at the supermarket and pick up some meat if he goes to kennels he gets dry food taken with him.(thats if i can't get him to his pet sitter who feeds him raw)

I too have an Aussie. He gets a turkey leg in the morning with a small amount of organ meat and 2 chicken wings.
I weighed it out when i first started feeding years ago and it should be 2-3% of their body weight over time you just adjust by eye.

It balances itself out over about 12 days.

BARF stands for bones and raw food.

You can feed outside if you want. We do in the summer otherwise we just lay a towel down on the floor and they eat on that.
 
CaveCanem said:
For holidays, emergencies, people who don't want to go the whole hog etc, DUCK is a frozen patty which mimics raw/natural feeding.
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Had a look on the internet and its not obvious where I can buy duck from the english address for suppliers are too far away from me.Do you have a site you use ?Or can you buy from supermarkets/pet stores etc
My butcher on local market sells pet food £2 kilo which seems good value looks like mixed offal ,Axel has spent most of afternoon knawing on knuckle bone that butcher gave me, he still has baby teeth .
Thanks for all info.
 
cellie said:
Had a look on the internet and its not obvious where I can buy duck from the english address for suppliers are too far away from me.Do you have a site you use ?Or can you buy from supermarkets/pet stores etc
My butcher on local market sells pet food £2 kilo which seems good value looks like mixed offal ,Axel has spent most of afternoon knawing on knuckle bone that butcher gave me, he still has baby teeth .
Thanks for all info.
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Careful what bones you give: avoid weight bearing cow bones, for example, as they may crack her teeth being too tough, really. Anything you can stick a knife in is apparently OK.
 
cellie said:
Had a look on the internet and its not obvious where I can buy duck from the english address for suppliers are too far away from me.Do you have a site you use ?Or can you buy from supermarkets/pet stores etc
My butcher on local market sells pet food £2 kilo which seems good value looks like mixed offal ,Axel has spent most of afternoon knawing on knuckle bone that butcher gave me, he still has baby teeth .
Thanks for all info.
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These supply Human grade raw diet they are based in Surrey and have good quality stuff in portion sizes for those starting out.

http://www.naturalinstinct.com/
 
cinammontoast said:
Holy moly! £4 for a kilo! I know it's human grade but I'm getting 15kgs of good quality tripe for £10!
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Didn’t say it would be cheap ha ha. There are a lot of regs about handling meat especially raw so I suspect the overheads might be more than me trotting to the butcher, plus it’s a niche market ATM. Have seen their stuff at a dog show and it looks good with a high bone content so won’t knock them. I like the dried liver treats they do as mine aren’t keen on the real thing.

I know some people are nervous about portion size and have trouble sourcing so it is a useful place to start. But you are never gonna beat chatting up the Butcher or Chicken factory!!
 
Just want to come on and celebrate that I just got two chickens, six chicken quarters (one and a half chickens? :p) two packs of liver, and two huge packs of mince for around a fiver in Tesco's bargain bin, woo hoo!!!
 
cinammontoast said:
Very true but given the OH (who's a bloke) found all the stuff (from other males) should I be worried?!
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Only if he's showing other signs like a remote interest in Dancing on Ice or if he was a big strictly fan!

Well done CC Gold Star Bargain Hunter ! No Turkey legs??
 
CaveCanem said:
Just want to come on and celebrate that I just got two chickens, six chicken quarters (one and a half chickens? :p) two packs of liver, and two huge packs of mince for around a fiver in Tesco's bargain bin, woo hoo!!!
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I'm scared that nowadays I get excited by raw meat!

KarynK said:
Only if he's showing other signs like a remote interest in Dancing on Ice or if he was a big strictly fan!
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No, I can only watch Dancing on Ice if he's out! :D
 
Anybody who was buying the BOGOF trays of chicken thighs/drummers at Sainsburys, they're now back at normal price (boooo) but they now do a 2kg sack of value chicken portions (drumsticks, whole legs, wings) in the freezer section for something like £3.40. :)

I may have also picked up a bag of value frozen lamb chops for £3 as a treat. :o
 
I'm concerned now that both of mine have had bad tummies off and on for the past few weeks (not both at the same time though).

Have I got the balance wrong?

Typical day is chicken wings or drummers a.m and offal mix from butchers or mince with raw egg or oily fish a couple of times a week p.m. They also sometimes have lamb scragg end and tripe. I was, up til the weekend feeding pork chops/steaks but apparently this is not so good for them so have eliminated from the diet. Does this sound about right? Why the upset to their systems do you think?

Thanks :)
 
mollichop said:
I'm concerned now that both of mine have had bad tummies off and on for the past few weeks (not both at the same time though).

Have I got the balance wrong?

Typical day is chicken wings or drummers a.m and offal mix from butchers or mince with raw egg or oily fish a couple of times a week p.m. They also sometimes have lamb scragg end and tripe. I was, up til the weekend feeding pork chops/steaks but apparently this is not so good for them so have eliminated from the diet. Does this sound about right? Why the upset to their systems do you think?

Thanks :)
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I feed offal twice a week at most its to rich imo to feed everyday at mine get a bad tummy on it if i feed it more often.

Mine have something with bone in it almost every meal.

Are you feeding the same and they are back to normal now? If so it may just been a little tummy bug they got.
 
Thanks Katielou, so I can feed bone content in both daily meals? I think the pork was too rich for them.

So should chicken with bones be the main staple for them?
 
Chicken is one of the best meaty bones for all they key nutrients, it's easy to source, the bones are not to hard and it will be high in essential fatty acids and key amino acids, where some lean red meat's aren't as good. Basically a diet of mostly raw meaty bones (80% bone to meat) of chicken, lamb an occasional bit of pork, some offal once or twice a week and eggs provide everything a dog needs in abundance and in the correct ratios.

Pork can be very rich, mine only get it occasionally because of the foul botty burps that seem to follow it, that said if it's on offer they get some and they love piggie tooties.

Just read above, have found over the years that lamb bones are excellent for firming up if they have had a bit too much of the rich stuff.
 
mollichop said:
Thanks Katielou, so I can feed bone content in both daily meals? I think the pork was too rich for them.

So should chicken with bones be the main staple for them?
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Yes you can feed bone every meal as long at its about the correct ratio of bone to meat. If they get to firm just down the bone content a bit.

It really is a by eye thing :)

Pork is to rich for mine the only pork product they get is feet occasionally.

Chicken, turkey and offal make up 99% of my dogs diet.

Lamb is sooo expensive here so they generally just get the recreational lamb bones once a month but no real meat.

I have found that pure canned pumpkin is awesome at firming things up.
 
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