Anyone else finding it hard to sell puppies?? never had so many timewasters!!!

[Stroppy_mare 73]

I have Hamiltonstovare Jasmine. Also a couple of Irish Terriers & my rescue Rottie!

Who are all now happy after their Bonios!

 

[soloabe]

If you didn't already have homes for them they shouldn't have been bred in the first place!

 

[Sanolly]

With regards t the imported GSD bitch I actually think it's a really good idea, just perhaps the wrong time. The problem is that with the UK stock they have the really sloping back en which leads to all sorts of hip and leg problems which the European stock doesn't have, therefore if you were to import some more stock from the continent you could improve these problems.

 

[CorvusCorax]

With regards t the imported GSD bitch I actually think it's a really good idea, just perhaps the wrong time. The problem is that with the UK stock they have the really sloping back en which leads to all sorts of hip and leg problems which the European stock doesn't have, therefore if you were to import some more stock from the continent you could improve these problems.

People have been importing GSDs from the continent to the UK and Republic of Ireland since 1917 , it's not a new thing.
All of our own dogs since the 1980s have been out of at least one imported parent, if not both.
The hipscoring scheme in the UK, devised by Dr Malcolm Willis has been active since the 1970s.
There are problems with hips and elbows on the continent as well, and they have their own hip (and elbow) scoring system and have done so for decades.

Like in Germany, lots of breed enthusiasts here would like to see only health tested and titled dogs be allowed to breed and/or progress to the highest levels in showing, and for only puppies from health tested parents to be registered, but the UK Kennel Club will not enforce this.
They have been asked to by various breed delegations, over decades, but have not yet done so.

 

[MurphysMinder]

What she just said ^^^. My bitches are all descended from mainly imported lines, it has been happening for decades. The difference between the continent (particularly Germany) and the Uk is that the German dogs have to reach a certain standard in health, construction and working ability before they can be bred from, whereas over here any 2 GSDs can be mated and the KC are happy to take the money for registrations.

 

[Izzywizz]

My last pup has just gone to her new home. I had 12 lab pups, out of my very beautiful bitch. I sold them very easily, with them all going to very lovely homes. People say that you can find homes before breeding, I had 6 people who said they might be interested in a before I put Izzy into pup. Not one of them bought a pup. It is quite difficult to know how many and what sex you are having to enable them to be homed before they are born.

 

[CorvusCorax]

PS Another obvious thought re importation - if they weren't imported from Germany, G(erman)SDs wouldn't exist in the UK at all

 

[Ranyhyn]

What is it with the "sloping back" comments, I mean I know I had excellent advisors but not one of the dogs I saw had that problem...

 

[PerdixPerdix]

argh tell me about, my mum struggled like hell to get rid of all her cockers this year, all with the best pedigrees you'd find, chipped docked and jabbed, the works. one guy put a deposit down and she never heard from him again and one brought his back because it didnt have a certain dog in the pedigree (uh out of the 60 or so FT champs and winners included) and one guy called, confirmed he would be picking it up at so and so a time, and never showed, called to apologise and rearrange a date and still let her down.

we had an accidental mating between our one of our cockers and springers and found ourselves with 11 beauties, this march which all ended up going to friends and family for small sums of money. i couldnt be bothered with the rigmarole my mum had.
its been a sucky year for it.

 

[GeorgieLee]

Thanks for some of your support,
as has been said I was complaining about timewasters as we are fussy about what homes they go to, not just people thinking they want a 'handbag dog' or think they can be left at home all day whilst your at work, min pins love to be with you
and with regards to having homes for them before breeding they come in two different colours and we had people that said they would definately have one but various circumstances ment that they didnt, we have never had a problem selling them so didnt think it would be a problem this time
also if these two little boys dont find homes then we will keep them so its not a problem
so nobody needs to worry about there being a min pin rescue

 

[PerdixPerdix]

aww, i love min pins, my oh wont let me get a doberman yet.. i have a hpr waiting list, weimerarner, then gshp, then dalmatian then doberman (i know, the best picking up team ever)... and a min pin would be perfect to accompany my patterdale X, she is the ultimate handbag dog, (sleeps in bed with us and everything lol, shes 13 and my best friend)....
i'll be your min pin rescue lol!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I just don't get the whole designer cross breed thing. Saying that, we met a cockapoo (what a truly stupid name) in the woods this morning and he was very cute-like a mini Tibetan Terrier and a lady I meet yesterday at a show told me she wanted one. They appear madly popular.

To whomever said X breeds are hardier-not necessarily: you may just double up on the known breed problems from both sides.

I'm amazed at man's constant striving for variety and change: I see that accidents can happen and there's nowt wrong with a mongrel, but I really don't get the whole designer thing.

 

[PerdixPerdix]

I just don't get the whole designer cross breed thing. Saying that, we met a cockapoo (what a truly stupid name) in the woods this morning and he was very cute-like a mini Tibetan Terrier and a lady I meet yesterday at a show told me she wanted one. They appear madly popular.

To whomever said X breeds are hardier-not necessarily: you may just double up on the known breed problems from both sides.

I'm amazed at man's constant striving for variety and change: I see that accidents can happen and there's nowt wrong with a mongrel, but I really don't get the whole designer thing.

A. crossing breeds and developing them is the way we ended up with the dogs we have today.

B. by crossing two breeds ie, a cocker and a springer, you cancel out any strong congenitive defects and actually do succeed in making them a hardier dog. you can reduce the defects on both sides dramatically by crossing two pedigree breeds, this is all scientifically proven, and well known by most breeders.

C. what is it with all the desperation for a good pedigree anyway... a dog is nothing without sound guidance and consistent training. some of our best dogs are mongrels, our sprockers are outstanding, and if you took into account the parents pedigrees they would outclass many pedigree'd dogs anyhow.

 

[weevil]

As for crossbreeds, I have never understood why people would want to pay for them

I can. Many crossbreeds are lovely dogs and the cross is chosen carefully. My family always had "pure breed" dogs but now I am getting a cross-breed (shoot me now ). When I told my friend who is a vet what dog I was getting her first comment was "oh good, you shouldn't get too many health problems with that"
There is a lot of snobbery about what dogs people should get and I don't particularly like the designer crossbreeds but there is nothing wrong with a happy, healthy crossbreed dog. After all - how many people have crossbreed horses?

 

[Cinnamontoast]

A. crossing breeds and developing them is the way we ended up with the dogs we have today.

B. by crossing two breeds ie, a cocker and a springer, you cancel out any strong congenitive defects and actually do succeed in making them a hardier dog. you can reduce the defects on both sides dramatically by crossing two pedigree breeds, this is all scientifically proven, and well known by most breeders.

C. what is it with all the desperation for a good pedigree anyway... a dog is nothing without sound guidance and consistent training. some of our best dogs are mongrels, our sprockers are outstanding, and if you took into account the parents pedigrees they would outclass many pedigree'd dogs anyhow.

A. Yes, thanks for the genetics reminder-more than aware of this: I didn't imagine that the varying breeds just evolved with no help!

B. Not necessarily (see 'Chorky' posts)

C. I couldn't really care about pedigrees/KC registration. My two original Springers are KC registered and were genetically screwed, frankly, no end of problems. I just happen to like the breed so I got more (from someone who has had one litter and is not a regular breeder).

 

[FrodoBeutlin]

I can. Many crossbreeds are lovely dogs and the cross is chosen carefully. My family always had "pure breed" dogs but now I am getting a cross-breed (shoot me now ). When I told my friend who is a vet what dog I was getting her first comment was "oh good, you shouldn't get too many health problems with that"
There is a lot of snobbery about what dogs people should get and I don't particularly like the designer crossbreeds but there is nothing wrong with a happy, healthy crossbreed dog. After all - how many people have crossbreed horses?

Do you really believe crosses are chosen carefully? Have you had a look at the website posted by Galupy?

I don't think the comparison with horses works, a modern warmblood is not a 'purebred' per se but will be the fruit of centuries of work on certain lines; this is what is missing from these crosses, nobody can have an idea what traits they'll inherit, what they'll look like or be like. I have a GSD x Golden Retriever cross, ten puppies in her litter, and I've met one of her sister who just couldn't be more different... Beezle looks like a GSD (ask CC or MM ) while that sister of hers is a stunning 'black golden'. But how could people *pay* for this? How can you pay for something which is a total gamble? This is what I don't understand.

 

[CorvusCorax]

B. by crossing two breeds ie, a cocker and a springer, you cancel out any strong congenitive defects and actually do succeed in making them a hardier dog. you can reduce the defects on both sides dramatically by crossing two pedigree breeds, this is all scientifically proven, and well known by most breeders.

- Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't HD and ED present in both these breeds? So if you breed an untested cocker to an untested springer (likewise, breeding an untested GSD to an untested GSD), you could be doubling up on both.

ETA I have no problem with crossbreeds AT ALL. I have a problem with people charging stupid money for crossbreeds, and stupid money for ANY dog that has not been health tested before breeding.

 

[SusieT]

people will only charge what they can get. nobody is forcing anyone to buy these dogs.
There are many un health tested pedigrees out there.
There is a phenomena called hybrid vigour when crossing two lines. (only works with 1st generation though..)
All pedigrees started out because someone wanted to develop a trait, and are bred because they are a certain type. Many breeds in horses are crossed to try and include more traits. Same in chickens. j
B'YB exists in all types of dogs.
My thoughts in the matter. They have stupid names sometimes-yes. Am I worked up about it? No

 

[CAYLA]

I to have nothing against X breeds, I have a pack of 10 dogs and half are pedigree the other half mongrels, however I do have an issues with breeding them irrisponsibly and charging a stupid amount and claiming they are "healthier, stronger, dont shed, never get ill e,t,c, and I do not believe for one minute one bad gene cancels another, and I have seen proof, we get plenty of these stupid designer X breeds in the rescue and believe me they are not without health issues.
There is plenty of X breeds without pumping out more, Im also not to sure re cmaparing horses to dogs, their is alot more variation in dogs (shape wise) than horses, so you can get some seriously deformed crosses with horrendously deformed jaws by crossing with a breed, for example jackshits has anyone seen their jaw, I board 2 and there jaws are so bad they loose half of their food just tryng to chew it.
I would hazard at a guess that horses also dont suffer as many breed related health issues as dogs.

Again I have nothing against X breeds, I would however never pay for a one, there is plenty out there in rescue and I would not want to encourage the random breeding of them, the only way I would part with money is for a proven health tested animal, and again thats unlikely for me

 

[CorvusCorax]

Maybe I am sensitive about the health testing issue, but my breed, which is relatively young, is suffering from the consequences of people leaving breeding, and what is lurking in the lines, to chance.
It's not 'just one of those things' in many cases, these conditions, if not totally preventable, can be fought at least!
Not worth it to leave to chance IMO.

I do agree, the prices will stay high as long as people will pay them (see post of several months, Maltese Terrier bingo, buy an unregistered pup from the small ads in the paper for £1200! Wow!).

Re creation of new breeds - it's 2010, there are thousands of breeds of dog out there, or crosses thereof is there really a dog to be created now, do we not all have some sort of dog for every purpose? I really don't think there is any purpose in creating new ones.
JMO

PS this obsession for teacup sizes, breeding smaller and smaller, has led to dogs being born with deformed, shortened and even absent legs in the USA. Only a matter of time!!!

 

[PerdixPerdix]

crossed breeds show many less defects than any pedigree counterparts, ive had this conversation with my vet every time we have a new crossed litter. obviously there will be some defects that will still show up no matter how you breed, like eye colour in humans.

cross breeding is a gamble somewhat, because a pup can take either a dominant or a recessive trait, as with humans and other animals. you only have to breed a smooth hair terrier with a rough hair to show that you'll probably end up with a mixed batch, or strike it lucky and get what you wanted. ive bred our black and white cocker with our black and white springer and got lemon and white puppies that noone will believe are sprockers, some carry his short legs and some are massive like their mother, some litters have been almost identical. the key is getting it all right.

labradoodles mostly dont shed, we see alot of them in the feild now, they seem to be a preferred working dog for part timers and none i have met shed hair, so going from experience id say that is a crossbreeding success for anyone who is allergic to pet hair but would like a dog, possibly to work, other than a standard poodle.

with the recent uproar concerning inbreeding pedigree dogs surrounding the KC and crufts, i would have thought more people would be behind introducing more fresh blood into the breeds that desperately need it.

ill also stand by that i do not agree that every kennel club registered dog is 100% legit, its all too easy to fake documents and pass a sire and a bitch off to be someone they are not, especially if said bitch or sire has awful hip/eye scores, all you need is a similar dog to fit the pedigree description. though its a terrible thing to do, it does happen and Kc need to implement better prevention methods regarding fraud.

 

[PerdixPerdix]

obviously im talking about correct and responsible crossing between well matched breeds. none of this chihuhuaXcocker rubbish.

and cavecanem testing is an extremely important thing to me too, breeding good, strong working dogs is important to me and i want the best i can get from my dogs, health is paramount.

 

[CorvusCorax]

When DNA testing came in for us, certain people had a lot of housekeeping to do NTT!

We have quite a large genepool considering the breed is so young and I wish certain people would utilise that fact...but not interbreed with Malis, as has been suggested in the past

PS There's a standard Poodle doing Schutzhund in England, they're much smarter than people give them credit for!

 

[CAYLA]

See this is peobably where some agree to disagree because I can say the main reason labradoodles are hande into our rescue and the ones we work close with are

1, They where told they would not shed and they did
2, They where too high energy

The most recent labradoodle we had was 6 moths old, someone also mentioned in one of the other posts someone they knew rehomed one because it was shedding.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Twiglet on here has a shedding 'Doodle. I think, like my fella, he has allergy/sensitivity problems - I can look at my fella's pedigree, knowing what I know now, and that say linebreeding on a certain dog or dogs is the likely cause - all recorded for posterity for future breeders and purchasers to look out for/avoid - but a first gen cross of two completely different breeds can also suffer health problems like the purebreeds do.

 

[PerdixPerdix]

cavecanem i have a freind who picks up on a shoot with two standards, they are very intelligent dogs, something you cant train into a dog. he put one over his springer and the big chocolate results went for over £800 a pop can you believe, why? i have no idea.

my dream is to own a picking up team consisting of different HPRs and hounds. hopefulling beginning with a weimy pup next year. so im all for bringing different breeds into the field, josh lewsey the rugby player has two trained boxers he picks up with and ive seen alsatians in the beat line also.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Whilst I agree that pedigrees etc can be and are faked, when presenting a dog for hip and elbow scoring, and presumably other health tests, the vets now check for identification, be it a microchip or tattoo number and enter it on the form, which should tie up with details on registration certificate, so its a start.
It was me who mentioned the shedding labradoodle Cayla, and CC I am pretty sure there is a Standard Poodle doing WT as well .

 

[CorvusCorax]

Ah, apologies to the OP, weekend threads about breeding so often seem to go off on a mahoosive tangent and I'm one of the people at fault, as usual
If anything else, perhaps all the views this thread has generated will help you get good homes for your MinPins!!!

 

[PerdixPerdix]

cayla this is where problems arise, when working blood is introduced. alot of people cannot cope with the amount of energy working lines have, and need to burn off.
my partners friend deals in rehoming unwanted dogs and he's often got a bang on springer or lab with no faults other than it wants to work, and often inexperienced people cant handle that, they expect one walk round the block to satisfy its needs, well i can tell you from experience lack of exersize can drive a dog mad. we have recieved a springer through this and apart from running on too much, she is excellent, and its a pity she had to go through all the upheaval to finally find an understanding owner.

 

[Pacey]

Maybe this will be the beginning of people breeding less, as let's face it, so many end up in rescue anyway...