Anyone know what happened?

[equinerebel]

I think the rider was already off because she said the horse didn't have any blood on him when she came off and she wondered if it was done when he hit a vehicle.

I thought the same, but I swear I can see a rider leaning far back in a few early frames. I’m not sure, and it probably doesn’t matter!

 

[Juniper Jack]

This is so horrible, I really hope that both horses and riders will fully recover and that there were no serious injuries. That is a lot of blood on the grey, though.

I've never felt comfortable with horses in busy cities, having grown up in a city where carriage horses were used to pull tourists around, before being put back in concrete stables for the night with zero turnout. They always looked miserable and knackered.

Is there a point to these horses, beyond pomp/ceremony/tourism?

I once saw, years ago, when Elizabeth was Queen, in Scotland, her coach -- and she -- were threatened by what IIRC looked like hooligans. Immediately several of the mounted soldiers escorting her charged the attackers, sabres drawn IIRC. Even if not, the action of those soldiers and horses charging to protect the Queen really, really impressed me. I have never forgotten that brief glimpse of real soldiers taking real action to protect the Queen.

So to answer your question, I would say, yes, there is a point.

 

[Juniper Jack]

This incident has been on my mind all day, have been trying to put into words how it has made me feel.

The image of these beautiful, scared and injured animals running through a concrete jungle, so far from nature and serenity stirred something visceral in me...it was a bigger-picture gut punch of - we put these animals here. Not just in this situation but so many situations, for the purpose of our pleasure, vanity, ego. Never for the animal or for their wellbeing.

We are indeed living in different times now, and I think it's right to question what is fair and acceptable in our increasingly overpopulated world - especially the UK which is jam-packed.

I'm not making any blanket statements here like x y or z should be banned, just ruminating on the feeling that it's unfair what we expect of these animals sometimes, especially within some contexts where it actually seems needless to put horses in certain scenarios - makes you question their quality of life in the bigger picture of things. Was having similar thoughts about top-end dressage horses who are put under so much pressure for human ambition, so many forget that they are just animals who want to enjoy their lives in peace.

On the note of overpopulation, I would so love to go back to a time when there were far less people and you could actually ride out in open countryside without needing to worry about dangerous drivers.

I've been thinking along the same lines, thinking about the SRS horses, how they are stabled, and if they get turnout.

Like you I would love to go back to a time such as you describe. But then I remember that in some olden times there were bands of outlaws in forests, highwaymen out on the roads, soldiers rampaging up and down attacking villages ... and these horses were seen by a modern-day, trained veterinarian who has the latest medical equipment (I assume).
For me it's a hard call. Was it better in earlier times, or is it better now? There's no answer IMO.
Now off to Google the welfare of the SRS and other city "official" horses and what their day-to-day lives are like, between their public appearances.

 

[Juniper Jack]

Do we? Or do we not have a choice?

Before banning more and more things from the hell of tarmac, concrete and machinery that we have created, maybe we could consider the legitimacy of the environment and system that we have created and continue to perpetuate.

I believe we have a choice, but whether or not we will make the right one I have no idea. I also believe millions of us do not believe we have a choice. I do know it makes me very sad that with all the King has written about the environment and building in our age no one seems to have any power or even real influence to stop all the "progress" humans have made.
And now this.

 

[Juniper Jack]

Spot on. Thank you for expressing this so eloquently. If we are to rescue ourselves and nature we have to question what we are making and accepting that cannot include it.

Count me in.

 

[criso]

The rider of the grey said he slipped on a drain cover and she was trapped underneath. I have just seen footage of the grey taking a crashing fall as it tripped over some ebikes - that would be where the injuries happened. Same footage shows a mounted horse appear to jump a car bonnet.

Probably as he doesn't seem to have a lot of blood before that.


This may not be accurate but the other one galloping with the grey was said to be Trojan who isn't too bad. They've said that a horse called Tennyson was the one that went into the bus and also not too seriously injured and Quaker the most seriously injured and still in hospital was the one that went into the side of the silver people carrier.

 

[I'm Dun]

There's a bit of information here which is mixed as well as an 'expose' on barrack conditions.

Army issues fresh update on injured Household Cavalry horses - live updates

Two horses are making progress while two injured soldiers are expected to make a full recovery

www.independent.co.uk

The horrific conditions referred to by the whistleblower are dirty water, rats and stabled 24/7 with only an hour's exercise each day.

They are kept in an absolutely awful way. There is no way anyone could claim these horses are kept optimally. And saying other people do worse, doesn't negate this. They don't need to be kept there, they could be moved to a better location and brought in for the times they are needed. Keeping horses in those conditions is not ok.

 

[meleeka]

They are kept in an absolutely awful way. There is no way anyone could claim these horses are kept optimally. And saying other people do worse, doesn't negate this. They don't need to be kept there, they could be moved to a better location and brought in for the times they are needed. Keeping horses in those conditions is not ok.

Can you explain how it’s awful? Presumably it’s stable kept horses with no turnout?

 

[criso]

They are kept in an absolutely awful way. There is no way anyone could claim these horses are kept optimally. And saying other people do worse, doesn't negate this. They don't need to be kept there, they could be moved to a better location and brought in for the times they are needed. Keeping horses in those conditions is not ok.

It's not how I choose to keep a horse but it is very common to keep horses stabled apart from exercise for so many competition horses all the world and as I said upthread riding schools I went to including ones who had turnout but didn't use it. I went to view a livery yard once which did have plenty of turnout but the owner showing us around said she didn't get all this fuss about turnout and her competition horses never went out.

So I don't think it's a big whistleblowing expose and a surprise to anyone.

 

[teapot]

Can you explain how it’s awful? Presumably it’s stable kept horses with no turnout?

They're in 24/7 at Knightsbridge in not the biggest of boxes, some of which convert to stalls during the day, and it's a double/triple storey building so horses above each other. Super early morning exercise is done by civvies known to the Cavalry (you used to be able to apply), and they also offer lessons for certain clubs, so as the horses are ridden/out of boxes more than just for ceremonial duties and exercise. Those on guard duty are ridden down to Whitehall and stay there for 24hrs, which is an old indoor yard that hasn't changed in centuries. They seem to have upped their day trips out though as have seen fb posts about visiting Petworth and Hayling.

Some info here

Double-decker stables and a hidden horse walker: is this Britain's most compact yard? - Horse & Hound

www.horseandhound.co.uk

 

[criso]

I had an army farrier at one time, they do private work as well as military horses and remember him talking about the stables at St John's Wood being closed down and moved to Woolwich I think.

Are these different ones or do they rotate between locations?

 

[Burnerbee]

I had an army farrier at one time, they do private work as well as military horses and remember him talking about the stables at St John's Wood being closed down and moved to Woolwich I think.

Are these different ones or do they rotate between locations?

St John’s Wood was the Kings Troop. Don’t know where they are now - somewhere cheaper!

 

[criso]

St John’s Wood was the Kings Troop. Don’t know where they are now - somewhere cheaper!

Farrier said Woolwich which is certainly cheaper than St Johns Wood

 

[ycbm]

There's a bit of information here which is mixed as well as an 'expose' on barrack conditions.

Army issues fresh update on injured Household Cavalry horses - live updates

Two horses are making progress while two injured soldiers are expected to make a full recovery

www.independent.co.uk

The horrific conditions referred to by the whistleblower are dirty water, rats and stabled 24/7 with only an hour's exercise each day.

And up thread the grey horse's vet is quoted as calling him a "horrible, horrible horse" and as having "returned to his usual grumpy self". Did nobody ask why he was behaving the way he was? If these horses were all on hair triggers through lack of fresh air and a good canter, then it's no wonder they all reacted so badly that 4 presumably experienced riders all came off.
.

 

[tetij]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/inside-the-chaotic-household-cavalry-stables/

Seems like HC horses broncing/running away with riders is not uncommon, at least not according this exercise rider's account.

On another occasion (this time riding a notorious ‘bucker’), my horse bucked repeatedly (known as ‘broncing’) down almost the entire length of Rotten Row. To save my own arse, I’m ashamed to say that I stopped him by turning into a line of young troopers, scattering their mounts. Several fell off.

 

[criso]

And up thread the grey horse's vet is quoted as calling him a "horrible, horrible horse" and as having "returned to his usual grumpy self". Did nobody ask why he was behaving the way he was? If these horses were all on hair triggers through lack of fresh air and a good canter, then it's no wonder they all reacted so badly that 4 presumably experienced riders all came off.
.

The riding school horses I mentioned were certainly happier when they got overnight turnout but that only happened because they were closing and running things down a bit. I wouldn't describe them as being on a hair trigger but Monday was the day off and they could be a little fresher on a Tuesday.

However I also think that when you get a lot of horses in a big group, things can get a bit more tense like on fun rides and out hunting. I remember a hack from hell where we started with 2 of us and people kept saying can we come till there were about 12 of us. None of the horses misbehaved usually on their own or with one or two others but on this occasion it was a nightmare with quite a few being silly. My horse and a mare were determined to wind each other up

This was a rehearsal for something not daily exercise so the riders would be more keyed up and stress the horses, more like a competition atmosphere.

I'm also not sure that all the riders would be very experienced. People join up some with no horse experience and it's more of a fast track. I've seen footage of new recruits being bucked off in an indoor school on horses that wouldn't be the first mount at a riding school. They wouldn't be beginners and trained but not I'm not sure they all have the years of experience to cope with a more extreme situation.

As I mentioned I had a experience of rubble going down a chute out in the country. I hopped off before it escalated as I was approaching a steep down hill and was worried that even barefoot he might slip and go down and I might not keep hold. If he had got away he may have galloped down a narrow bendy lane and onto a very busy road causing similar chaos.

 

[ycbm]

This was a rehearsal for something not daily exercise so the riders would be more keyed up and stress the horses, more like a competition atmosphere.

I'm also not sure that all the riders would be very experienced. People join up some with no horse experience and it's more of a fast track. I've seen footage of new recruits being bucked off in an indoor school on horses that wouldn't be the first mount at a riding school. They wouldn't be beginners and trained but not I'm not sure they all have the years of experience to cope with a more extreme situation.

Coupled with the stabling and a lack of a good canter to take the edge of the horses, that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen in busy London streets. Small wonder it hasn't happened as badly before, really.
.

 

[Burnerbee]

They are kept in an absolutely awful way. There is no way anyone could claim these horses are kept optimally. And saying other people do worse, doesn't negate this. They don't need to be kept there, they could be moved to a better location and brought in for the times they are needed. Keeping horses in those conditions is not ok.

It’s a common tendency for people to assume animals must be happy, having their needs met etc because their surroundings are tidy / shiny, they’re protected from the elements, regular food and water - what more could you ask? Many humans would love to live like that. Well yes, they would. But animals need to be allowed and able to act naturally in order to be happy - and living in a multi-storey in central London, even if it was immaculate and rat free, it is not good for them. I guess it’s a legacy of when horses were crammed into every last nook and cranny in cities - it was just how it was because horses were fundamental to human existence. But we’re in 2024 now.

 

[Keith_Beef]

Problem is, you would never leave the house if you wanted to eliminate risk completely.

78% of serious accidents occur in the home.

 

[SEL]

Coupled with the stabling and a lack of a good canter to take the edge of the horses, that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen in busy London streets. Small wonder it hasn't happened as badly before, really.
.

They usually do get a good canter in Hyde park if they are heading for ceremonial duties - precisely to take the edge off!

Anything that can't cope with the set up is usually rehomed. My friend took one in and he was a delight, just not right for the HC. They come up fairly regularly for rehoming.

The riding skills though usually leave a lot to be desired from what I've heard. The lady who escorted me on my Hyde park ride said many look very novicey

 

[meleeka]

I guess it’s a legacy of when horses were crammed into every last nook and cranny in cities - it was just how it was because horses were fundamental to human existence. But we’re in 2024 now.

I think things are generally better for horses these days, but there are still many yards up and down the country that don’t think anything of keeping horses stabled 23 hours a day. When I got my first pony in 1980 it was normal not to have turnout. It’s still normal in that same yard.

 

[ycbm]

I thought the rule for Hyde Park was hand canter only?
.

 

[suestowford]

I know the rule is, no galloping in Richmond & Bushy Parks, I'd expect it to be the same for all the London parks tbh, with the amount of people that use them it would be dangerous if there were people galloping about. I suppose very early in the morning would be OK but you're not supposed to go too fast even then.

Many years ago now my neighbours were having their roof tiles replaced. The roofers just chucked the old ones down from a height, and my pony, being in the field right next to them, got used to the noise of them crashing down. Even when a load of them came down as I was riding past the house with a friend, he didn't even blink. But my friend's pony span round and ran for safety. She got back on and we carried on for a bit, but her pony was on high alert. He was supposed to be shepherding mine a bit as mine was newly broken in and very 'green', but hers was so upset by the noise that we decided to cut our ride short as no-one was getting any fun out of it all that day.

 

[teapot]

I had an army farrier at one time, they do private work as well as military horses and remember him talking about the stables at St John's Wood being closed down and moved to Woolwich I think.

Are these different ones or do they rotate between locations?

St John’s Wood was the Kings Troop. Don’t know where they are now - somewhere cheaper!

KTRHA now at Woolwich which was purpose built, and has the space for at least quite small individual paddocks. When they’re needed in central London they stay in temp stables in the underground car park of Wellington Barracks (having walked through the chaos once!)

 

[I'm Dun]

It's not how I choose to keep a horse but it is very common to keep horses stabled apart from exercise for so many competition horses all the world and as I said upthread riding schools I went to including ones who had turnout but didn't use it. I went to view a livery yard once which did have plenty of turnout but the owner showing us around said she didn't get all this fuss about turnout and her competition horses never went out.

So I don't think it's a big whistleblowing expose and a surprise to anyone.

I suspect it might well be to the general public though. People who own horses may be able to justify it. I couldn't. And giving examples of other places doing it doesn't make it anymore right, although these horses have it worse as they are inside, not access to sunlight or fresh air apart from the hour of exercise they get.

 

[Snowfilly]

I suspect it might well be to the general public though. People who own horses may be able to justify it. I couldn't. And giving examples of other places doing it doesn't make it anymore right, although these horses have it worse as they are inside, not access to sunlight or fresh air apart from the hour of exercise they get.

The general public don’t give a toss. If they did, a lot of the most abhorrent farming and pet keeping practices in this country would no longer exist and meat from Thailand and the like wouldn’t be sold here.

If asked, most of them would nod and say oh yes horses have stables, right?

 

[DabDab]

Coupled with the stabling and a lack of a good canter to take the edge of the horses, that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen in busy London streets. Small wonder it hasn't happened as badly before, really.
.

The very regimented way that these horses spend their lives has been turning over in my brain since this happened. When I think of the horses I have personally known who have been prone to wild, full adrenaline reactions to things, particularly when their rider/handler is suddenly not there to give constant direction it is exclusively the horses that are kept mainly stabled, in very tightly controlled environments and are exercised in a highly structured way.

Possibly my own confirmation bias at play, but I do think that the regimented way of keeping and exercising these horses may have been a big contributor to the way they acted after their riders came off. When loose they look like horses just completely unable to interpret the world around them or regulate their own emotions, they are so completely over threshold that the threshold is a dot in the distance. It's like they've never been given the opportunity to learn something...I don't know what to call that something, but it seems like there is something missing/underdeveloped somehow...

 

[teapot]

The very regimented way that these horses spend their lives has been turning over in my brain since this happened. When I think of the horses I have personally known who have been prone to wild, full adrenaline reactions to things, particularly when their rider/handler is suddenly not there to give constant direction it is exclusively the horses that are kept mainly stabled, in very tightly controlled environments and are exercised in a highly structured way.

Possibly my own confirmation bias at play, but I do think that the regimented way of keeping and exercising these horses may have been a big contributor to the way they acted after their riders came off. When loose they look like horses just completely unable to interpret the world around them or regulate their own emotions, they are so completely over threshold that the threshold is a dot in the distance. It's like they've never been given the opportunity to learn something...I don't know what to call that something, but it seems like there is something missing/underdeveloped somehow...

You may be on the button here I feel, and add to that riders who for the most part are also trained from complete non-riders to ride in a very specific way too, so their own reactions are to a point drilled out too. There was an ITV series about their training course a few years back, it's probably on youtube, and I've always wondered at what point (which I doubt will happen, ever) will the training be amended to reflect a modern way of riding and horsemanship. King's Troop's the same - I've seen videos of their horses being jumped through grids with poles flying everywhere and you just think fgs actually ride and help the horse out.

Whereas the mounted police units actually value training and education of both horse and rider. Some of the Thames Valley branch train at one of the best centres in the UK, yet they're still able to go out and do whatever the day's job is - ceremonial escort, crowd control etc.

 

[ycbm]

The very regimented way that these horses spend their lives has been turning over in my brain since this happened. When I think of the horses I have personally known who have been prone to wild, full adrenaline reactions to things, particularly when their rider/handler is suddenly not there to give constant direction it is exclusively the horses that are kept mainly stabled, in very tightly controlled environments and are exercised in a highly structured way.

Possibly my own confirmation bias at play, but I do think that the regimented way of keeping and exercising these horses may have been a big contributor to the way they acted after their riders came off. When loose they look like horses just completely unable to interpret the world around them or regulate their own emotions, they are so completely over threshold that the threshold is a dot in the distance. It's like they've never been given the opportunity to learn something...I don't know what to call that something, but it seems like there is something missing/underdeveloped somehow...

I agree. It was a very extreme reaction. It also needs asking why all 4 riders fell off and whether ride and lead is remotely sensible in London traffic. My answer is firmly no to the last one, it's pure fluke that none of the public were seriously injured.
.

 

[teapot]

I agree. It was a very extreme reaction. It also needs asking why all 4 riders fell off and whether ride and lead is remotely sensible in London traffic. My answer is firmly no to the last one, it's pure fluke that none of the public were seriously injured.
.

King's Troop regularly ride and lead two when exercising without the guns...