Anyone know what happened?

[I'm Dun]

I don't think keeping them elsewhere and boxing in 20 or 30 horses each day to get them used to London which could be a couple of hours each way with London traffic would be practical. Arguably Woolwich is quite far out, 13 miles to Hyde Park so further out than where I liveried in North London, but YCBM posted an accident there.

Livery yards and riding schools even on the far edges of London have very limited or no turnout. I had to go quite far out to Herts from North London to get daily turnout though actually the riding routes aren't much safer than when I was further in, just different hazards.

terms of logistics, Great Northern sent a taxi for me the other day when the line was blocked and it takes about 50 minutes in a car from the yard to get to north London on a Sunday so would be a lot longer in a horse box at busy times/days to get to Central London if I wanted to box a horse in.

Met police horses are kept in stables in London and there are riding stables near Hyde Park and they get no turnout. At least one of the police horse stables in London are double decker and no windows so you can't say police manage differently.

A lot of the horses used by the army do seem sharp compared to the riding school horses that exercise in the same area, I wonder if being in that big a group can wind each other up too and make things worse but if that is how they are going to be in a ceremonial event then smaller groups won't achieve that.

As for whether leisure horses gallop if their riders fall off, there lots of cases where they have and there are often posts asking for help where the rider has come off and horses are lost sometimes for several days with drones searching for them. I had one a while back that got spooked coming in from the the field about 50m from his stable. Galloped past his stable, round various tracks and was heading up the drive to the road where luckily someone was coming and headed him back. Laid back cob type. My stressy tb is the one that's OK as he gets about 10m meters and says ooh grass.

Usually they don't run off and actually the army horses don't usually as falls are not that uncommon but sometimes they do in both cases.

You come back to whether horses have a role in a modern army and whether it is fair to use them in ceremonial events which are very demanding and horses have to be put in stressful situations to get used to them even more stressful situations of a big event..

They dont need to be in London every day or at all to train. And if that's how london police and riding schools keep horses then they shouldn't be allowed them in London either. No one should be entitled to keep an animal in those sorts of conditions.

And yes of course, some horses will run off, I know some who would, but considering how many people fall off every single day, its the minority not the majority. and its a tiny tiny majority who go off in such a panic they are hitting buses and bikes and cars and people. I don't think the exact chain of events is clear, but all of the horses went and all got injured.

edited to add, if google is correct the police horses do 2 week stints in London at wood street, with no turnout, before going back to bushey park where there is turnout etc

 

[Celtic Jewel]

accidents happens unfortunately it was nobody fault it could happen to anyone hacking. Often times people fall off horses and the horse run into a mane road and are killed by a car. Also we need to stop blaming people as if they are banned nobody is going to be allowed hack on public roads or anywhere in public with a horses because horse will be banned in general every equestrian will be screwed over and everyone will be punished by the government .

 

[teapot]

I don't think keeping them elsewhere and boxing in 20 or 30 horses each day to get them used to London which could be a couple of hours each way with London traffic would be practical. Arguably Woolwich is quite far out, 13 miles to Hyde Park so further out than where I liveried in North London, but YCBM posted an accident there.

Livery yards and riding schools even on the far edges of London have very limited or no turnout. I had to go quite far out to Herts from North London to get daily turnout though actually the riding routes aren't much safer than when I was further in, just different hazards.

terms of logistics, Great Northern sent a taxi for me the other day when the line was blocked and it takes about 50 minutes in a car from the yard to get to north London on a Sunday so would be a lot longer in a horse box at busy times/days to get to Central London if I wanted to box a horse in.

Met police horses are kept in stables in London and there are riding stables near Hyde Park and they get no turnout. At least one of the police horse stables in London are double decker and no windows so you can't say police manage differently.

A lot of the horses used by the army do seem sharp compared to the riding school horses that exercise in the same area, I wonder if being in that big a group can wind each other up too and make things worse but if that is how they are going to be in a ceremonial event then smaller groups won't achieve that.

As for whether leisure horses gallop if their riders fall off, there lots of cases where they have and there are often posts asking for help where the rider has come off and horses are lost sometimes for several days with drones searching for them. I had one a while back that got spooked coming in from the the field about 50m from his stable. Galloped past his stable, round various tracks and was heading up the drive to the road where luckily someone was coming and headed him back. Laid back cob type. My stressy tb is the one that's OK as he gets about 10m meters and says ooh grass.

Usually they don't run off and actually the army horses don't usually as falls are not that uncommon but sometimes they do in both cases.

You come back to whether horses have a role in a modern army and whether it is fair to use them in ceremonial events which are very demanding and horses have to be put in stressful situations to get used to them even more stressful situations of a big event..

I'd take Bow and GSY over Knightsbridge anyday though as a yard set up. Much airier, lighter, and they get turnout on at least a monthly basis! Plus for the most part the riders and training are better.

Some pics here: https://lookup.london/london-police-horses-visiting-the-met-mounted-branch/

 

[teacups]

I keep opening this thread and hope to hear how those horses are…anyone know?

 

[Bearsmum]

I keep opening this thread and hope to hear how those horses are…anyone know?

me too I keep checking news and in here to see if there is any update on the injured horses

 

[CorvusCorax]

It doesn't matter about personal opinion. The drivers/companies who's vehicles were wrecked, the cyclist who was wiped out, (Maybe even the riders themselves!) are all entitled to claim on insurance and will likely have a very good case. These claims and their outcomes are what will form future decision-making on horses in central London.

I love horses but if I was cycling along minding my own business and a horse crashed into me out of the blue, injured me, I was unable to work, lost earnings etc, or if my vehicle was wrecked, damn right I would claim.

This is an insurance and H&S nightmare.

 

[teapot]

It doesn't matter about personal opinion. The drivers/companies who's vehicles were wrecked, the cyclist who was wiped out, (Maybe even the riders themselves!) are all entitled to claim on insurance and will likely have a very good case. These claims and their outcomes are what will form future decision-making on horses in central London.

I love horses but if I was cycling along minding my own business and a horse crashed into me out of the blue, injured me, I was unable to work, lost earnings etc, or if my vehicle was wrecked, damn right I would claim.

This is an insurance and H&S nightmare.

I'd be interested to know whether serving personnel could claim while doing their job, which may in turn question the MoD risk assesments

 

[ycbm]

It doesn't matter about personal opinion. The drivers/companies who's vehicles were wrecked, the cyclist who was wiped out, (Maybe even the riders themselves!) are all entitled to claim on insurance and will likely have a very good case. These claims and their outcomes are what will form future decision-making on horses in central London.

I love horses but if I was cycling along minding my own business and a horse crashed into me out of the blue, injured me, I was unable to work, lost earnings etc, or if my vehicle was wrecked, damn right I would claim.

This is an insurance and H&S nightmare.

This ^^^

The law in England says the owners are liable for the damage whether there was negligence or not, just because they were horses. This accident (waiting to happen) going to cost a lot of money.
..

 

[ycbm]

I'd be interested to know whether serving personnel could claim while doing their job, which may in turn question the MoD risk assesments

I think they could make a pretty strong claim that in that environment ride one, lead one is fundamentally unsafe. A rider simply can't, no matter how good they are, control two panicking horses. Both letting the led horse go and attempting to hold on to it endanger yourself and/or the public. Ride one lead two in urban traffic laden streets is just mind blowingly risky.
.

 

[CorvusCorax]

And there's the element of training/ability of rider and the horse they are matched with.

 

[teapot]

I think they could make a pretty strong claim that in that environment ride one, lead one is fundamentally unsafe. A rider simply can't, no matter how good they are, control two panicking horses. Both letting the led horse go and attempting to hold on to it endanger yourself and/or the public. Ride one lead two in urban traffic laden streets is just mind blowingly risky.
.

Oh undoubtedly, but this is the military we're talking about, not a civilian environment. You'd have to report any concerns to whoever was above you, for it to go up the chain one by one.

Also worth remembering that accidents that happen to serving personnel don't get reported to HSE under the RIDDOR processes, only 'defined dangerous occurrences' are. Even the first aid at work requirements are slightly different.

 

[DabDab]

It doesn't matter about personal opinion. The drivers/companies who's vehicles were wrecked, the cyclist who was wiped out, (Maybe even the riders themselves!) are all entitled to claim on insurance and will likely have a very good case. These claims and their outcomes are what will form future decision-making on horses in central London.

I love horses but if I was cycling along minding my own business and a horse crashed into me out of the blue, injured me, I was unable to work, lost earnings etc, or if my vehicle was wrecked, damn right I would claim.

This is an insurance and H&S nightmare.

I assume they are insured, but I suppose that might be a rash assumption, either way I'm sure the money will be found for payouts.

I don't see why it being a horse that crashed into them would be relevant to anyone. People get injured, maimed, killed, and their property damaged or destroyed on the roads every single day. In fact every minute of every day.

The only relevance of it being horses causing damage in this situation, as far as I can see, is the organisation that happens to own/have legal responsibility for these particular horses.

 

[ester]

I was wondering what the insurance/responsibility situation would have been had it been civvies doing morning exercise, both if they got injured and 3rd parties.

 

[DabDab]

I was wondering what the insurance/responsibility situation would have been had it been civvies doing morning exercise, both if they got injured and 3rd parties.

I suspect for these horses that any liabilities would be covered whatever the specifics of the insurance situation.
I don't know what the norm is for third part insurance in general, but I know mine for both horses and dogs covers any damage/injury caused by them irrelevant of who was (or should have been) riding/handling/in control of them at the time. However I don't know how far that would go in practice if it came to a claim - I suspect that if I was extremely negligent in who I handed control of them over to then there might be issues

 

[Pebble101]

Some horses aren't insured and can cause damage to others. Same with cyclists.

 

[madmav]

I have a problem with the cavalry horses on Whitehall standing in those guard boxes for hours on end. Harsh bits in their mouths, which they chew on constantly. Tourists swarming them.

 

[ester]

they do an hour

 

[criso]

There's a lot of footage shared on social media of them getting grumpy with tourists and grabbing/biting them.

 

[teapot]

I have a problem with the cavalry horses on Whitehall standing in those guard boxes for hours on end. Harsh bits in their mouths, which they chew on constantly. Tourists swarming them.

They only do an hour at a time and it's between 10 and 4pm each day, so an hour for each horse. They arrive at Horseguards just before 11am (10am at weekends) and return back to Knightsbridge after 11am the next day. They also have an emergency button to press if needs be!

Agree with the tourists hanging off them and it not being ok. Just put into perspective though it is only an hour, far less hassle than your average riding school horse puts up with in parts.

 

[ester]

There's a lot of footage shared on social media of them getting grumpy with tourists and grabbing/biting them.

There's some I definitely think should be taken off the job as they are clearly having a shit time. Others seem to have it down/have read the assignment.

 

[criso]

There's some I definitely think should be taken off the job as they are clearly having a shit time. Others seem to have it down/have read the assignment.

I sympathise a bit with the grumpy ones. There are definitely tourists taking liberties and invading their space when they are clearly saying "don't touch" .

 

[Juniper Jack]

There's some I definitely think should be taken off the job as they are clearly having a shit time. Others seem to have it down/have read the assignment.

I remember when, years ago, the Buckingham Palace Guards were moved from their stations outside the fence, where they were vulnerable to tourists, to not only inside the fence but all the way across the forecourt from the tourists.
I wish that could be done at Horse Guards.

 

[ycbm]

An hour stood on one spot with a rider on is an enormous and hugely unnatural ask for a horse. And for what? Tradition and so some tourists can take photos.

There are now so many tourists in the world that I don't believe we need to subject the horses to this any more, the tourists will still come and see the buildings.
.

 

[Rowreach]

An hour stood on one spot with a rider on is an enormous and hugely unnatural ask for a horse. And for what? Tradishun and so some tourists can take photos.

There are now so many tourists in the world that I don't believe we need to subject the horses to this any more, the tourists will still come and see the buildings.
.

I completely agree (although I've been shot down on here previously for saying it), and the frequency with which those horses take chunks out of tourists really proves how p1ssed off they are.

 

[Cortez]

I completely agree (although I've been shot down on here previously for saying it), and the frequency with which those horses take chunks out of tourists really proves how p1ssed off they are.

I don’t actually agree, standing for an hour once a week or so isn’t the worst that can happen, and the pissing off of horses is the tourists fault, not the horse’s.

 

[ycbm]

I don’t actually agree, standing for an hour once a week or so isn’t the worst that can happen, and the pissing off of horses is the tourists fault, not the horse’s.

Unhappy horses don't usually bite thin air. The fact that they bite the tourists as soon as they have something to bite says the unhappiness is there all the time.

I can't agree with you about standing still with a rider and ceremonial tack on either. The horse can lock out its legs but it can't lock out the suspension bridge the rider is sat on and that takes core effort to hold up. I reckon it's a big ask both physically and mentally.

And it's pointless, eta except for the undoubted pleasure it gives people to see them.
.

 

[Skib]

Army cavalry troop riders are generally not very good riders at all, their training is brief, limited and dreadfully old fashioned.

I plead guilty. When we go to Westminster Abbey (hence OH wearing his medal) or to the National Gallery, we do divert and go to Whitehall to see the horse guards. My neighbour and friend whose OH was a military historian even volunteered at the Cavalry Museum beside the gate.

 

[Esmae]

Having picked holes in the traditions and working practices of the household cavalry, does anyone know how these injured horses are doing?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Some horses aren't insured and can cause damage to others. Same with cyclists.

Whether the owner/handler is insured is irrelevant. They can still be held responsible and claimed against.

 

[ycbm]

Having picked holes in the traditions and working practices of the household cavalry, does anyone know how these injured horses are doing?

I get your point and I'd like the latest update as well. But I don't think "picking holes" describes what we are writing about. Many of us have a very fundamental level disagreement with how these horses are being kept and used, on welfare grounds, in the light of what we now know about horses that wasn't known when these traditions started.
.