Are horses getting sharper or are riding standards dropping?

The wife

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After doing a little research into various different calmer products and realising just how many are on the market and reading the projected increase on usage with various companies it got me thinking several things...

What did people do before calmers were so popular? Are our horses getting sharper and more problematic or is it a reflection of a decreased riding ability with fewer 'proper jockeys' around to get on the naughtier ones. Does over feeding cause a lot of so called behavioural problems?

Most of these points I can answer myself from my own humble opinion but I wonder what others views are. Personally I think an increase in the amount of hi tech feeds on the market has a massive reflection with some people feeding too much. - to be fair it is a mine field feeding these days, I'd like to think I'm pretty savvy on feeding but even I get confused these days with so much choice available that promises amazing results. Christ, I've even put my youngsters on to a balancer to give them top lines like stallions * this is tongue in cheek * . I think riding schools have safer ponies and horses for people to learn on thus not allowing people to develop what I call a proper seat and instinct for staying on board.

I could be here all day actually on my thoughts but what are everybody else's thoughts on the seemingly direct correlation between the above?
 

3Beasties

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I think the problem is horses are generally not worked as hard as they used to be, spend longer kept in stables, are a bit more pampered rug wise, and fed higher quality (sometimes unsuitable/unnecessary feed). The way most horses are kept now means that they don't use as much energy as they should to keep warm/in the field/stable so when they are ridden the excess energy makes them sharper/spookier horses.

(That is obviously a huge generalisation as not all sharp/spooky difficult horses are not worked enough, fed too much, over stabled/rugged).
 

skint1

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hmm, a very interesting question OP. I don't know what it was really like back in the day as I am a relative late comer to the world of horses, it could be that horses are fed more and work less, it could be there are more people with hot blooded types like Tbs but expecting them to behave like the family cob, it could be that as horse riding became more accessible, riding schools became safer resultant in that riders became less "hardy"
 

MerrySherryRider

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I think management has changed.

Less horses live out and unrugged, they often get high energy feed while stabled and rugged and ridden only lightly.

That said, I was wondering about riding standards this morning. So many novices looking to buy horses and so many horses with poor training. The two don't mix well.

Is the average RS rider competent enough to ride most allrounders without an instructor present and outside the ménage ?
Not many.
Do riding instructors teach RS clients to be independent riders, capable of dealing with most everyday situations ?
 

pinklilly

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Don't know about getting sharper but I'm 38 and was introduced to horses at a very young age by ny mother who also worked with horses and I would say horses were worked a great deal harder, much more roadwork, hacking to hunt meets / pony club / gymkhana's. My mothers boss had a riding school / hunt livery yard and they though nothing of sending a 'naughty' horse / pony out with every hack which would have been 5 x 4.25 miles at a decent pace.
 

The wife

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I think management has changed.

That said, I was wondering about riding standards this morning. So many novices looking to buy horses and so many horses with poor training. The two don't mix well.

Is the average RS rider competent enough to ride most allrounders without an instructor present and outside the ménage ?
Not many.
Do riding instructors teach RS clients to be independent riders, capable of dealing with most everyday situations ?

It is this last year that first stirred the question where we had a few sales liveries in on behalf of clients and were shocked at the standard of riding from people who had described themselves as competent.
It was quite scary really watching beautifully schooled horses being socked in the teeth by unbalanced and heavy handed riders etc.
 

Elvis

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Hmmm really good question.

I think it's a combination of the two, riding schools have to be more careful about the horses they have, so people aren't exposed to as many sharp horses.

Then there is the over feeding and mis-management of horses. Not enough turnout, not enough exercise, high calorie/energy hard feed.

Then finally there is also the problem of irresponsible breeding, there seems to be an attitude of breed regardless of temperament, comformation etc so there are far too many horses that are too sharp for the average rider.
 

ribbons

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I often see the every day happy hobby riders keeping their horse in the same way professional riders keep theirs. Trouble is the horse does a minuscule amount of work compared to the hunt or competition horse. The rider is nothing like as experienced or confident. The result is a disaster waiting to happen.
 

TrasaM

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Could be more people are taking up riding who've not been around horses since birth?
Could be confusion about how horses are treated and trained and a confusion around how to handle horses created in part by there being so many different approaches and methods.
Could be pressure from feed companies and advertising feed and supplements which promotes the idea that horse feeding is a complex process requiring all their fancy food stuffs.
Or it could just be that the WWW means that we all have greater access to information both good and bad and that these problems were always there but you just didn't hear about it.

Am also a late comer to horses and trying to catch up fast but I've had no shortage of bucking practice and dealing with sharp horses where I'm learning.
 
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Flame_

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Continental horses are more powerful, expressive and often more complicated than traditional hunter types which used to be what "everybody" had. No idea about riding standards, I think if anything they're better, old high level eventing and showjumping videos look awful by todays riding standards.
 

Gloi

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Too many people who see horses as a sort of fashion accessory, who wouldn't be seen dead on the sort of animal that would suit their riding standard.
 

buddylove

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Ditto all of the above plus a general lack of common sense prevails!!! If you feed your expensive warmblood up to the eyeballs and stable it for 23 hours a day it is going to have a bit of a blow out when you let it out of it's box!!
Unless that horse is being worked damned hard, turn it out, give it a forage based diet and let it be a horse, your neck will thank you for it ;-)
 

Hippona

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I think the problem is horses are generally not worked as hard as they used to be, spend longer kept in stables, are a bit more pampered rug wise, and fed higher quality (sometimes unsuitable/unnecessary feed). The way most horses are kept now means that they don't use as much energy as they should to keep warm/in the field/stable so when they are ridden the excess energy makes them sharper/spookier horses.

(That is obviously a huge generalisation as not all sharp/spooky difficult horses are not worked enough, fed too much, over stabled/rugged).

Totally agree
 

Pearlsasinger

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I'm afraid that riding standards are dropping. As you say riding schools have very safe ponies/horses and riders can't progress onto more difficult mounts, I believe that a lot of this is driven by insurance companies. When I learned to ride, over 40 yrs ago, we started on the safe ponies but then progressed, through sharper/more reluctant ponies onto the show ponies and hunters which were ridden by the RI's family. There were horses/ponies which were less accommodating and insisted that the rider asked correctly, rather than guessing what the rider meant because they knew what to do. Most of these ponies lived out during the week all year round and were fed a very simple diet. If they were rugged, it was a NZ rug, all the same weight.
There is also a huge swathe of horse-owners who had only ridden at a RS for a short time before buying their own horse, this means that they do not have the breath of experience to deal with a range of horse behaviours.
At the same time, the feed companies do a very good marketting job, trying to persuade owners that 'Dobbin' NEEDS a complicated diet with about a million components, even the 'barefoot' exponents feel the need to feed all sorts of supplements. But that's ok because they get them from a specialist company.
There is also a tendency to rug horses and attempt to keep them at the same weight all yr round, rather than encouraging their natural seasonal fluctuations. IMO this can lead to laminitis, as well as behaviour problems.
Having said that, I had a mare several yrs ago who was never fed a complicated diet who had horrendous behaviour problems which by trial and error was found to be intolerant of, and totally incapable of digesting properly, cereals and sugars. In an earlier time she would have been pts when her behaviour meant that she was no longer able to do a ridden job.
So, IMO there are a number of reasons for there being more 'difficult' horses than before, most of them begin with the rider/owner.

ETA, it amazes me how many 'riders' fall off when their horse spooks. They obviously haven't developed an independent seat.
 
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cambrica

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Very interesting question and I think that the 'nails' have all been hit on the head so to speak with the reasons given.
When I started out in the late 1970's I bet very few people even knew what a 'menage' was let alone have one. Horses were worked much harder over longer distances and the ones I knew that had a bit of a screw loose were generally owned by people who also had a screw loose!!!
Horses are also it seems a product of our over pampering and molly-coddling society along with kids and dogs, spoilt basically.
 

EmmaB

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I think its a combination really of horses not being worked as hard/as often, having a better lifestyle, and more people over horsing themselves!
 

justabob

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We did not have outdoor schools, if a horse or pony felt a bit sharp we used to trot on and give them some work and get to the bottom of them. I think horses were fitter and harder, fed according to their work load. Even the point-to-pointers were easy as they hunted all day to qualify and were primarily hunters that raced at the end of the season. Yes our horses worked harder and we didn't fanny about.
 

The wife

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But what do people think about the breeding side of things? Are our modern day horses being bred to be sharper perhaps? We are seeing more and more records being broken across the whole competitive sector from racing to dressage. A highly talented animal at the very top of its chain has to be sharper than say one lower down the ranks, especially if it is a stallion and likely to breed? I appreciate that it is commonly known that the mare passes on the majority of temperament but playing devils advocate here :)
 

L&M

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No I don't think horses are getting sharper - it is the way they are managed. The pressures of modern life can mean horses are not kept as naturally as in the past, and those owners who work maybe lack the time to excercise their horses sufficiently. Green fields are rapidly becoming retail parks and housing estates, so not only do we have less countryside to ride them in, it is also a rare yard that allows 24/7 365 turnout.

The horse market is now flooded with inappropriate and confusing feeds and don't start me on rugs and all the bits now available! Give me a proper new zealand, a bucket of oats and I am happy. In my day calmers were not heard of, but a now they seem to be the solution for those poor horses that are cooped up in stables, with owners too pushed for time to fully excercise them.

Re riding standards, I don't think they have necessarily dropped, but health and safety has a lot to answer for. When I was kid we used to ride bareback, sometimes without a hat, and hacked out for hours with no parental supervision. Yes we did fall off, but we also learnt to stick on! We leant balance and courage on the hunting field, yet and to me this is still the only discipline that has stayed true to its roots and not stifled by red tape.

My horses get turned out every day in the winter, and 24/7 in the summer. They get ridden 6 days out of 7, and hunted weekly from the end of Aug until March. They are fed on basics, with most of their needs covered by good grass and haylage, and only own 2 rugs each, and are happy and healthy.

I am very fortunate to keep my horses at home, and work part time hours to fit around my horses - if I did not have this luxury I honestly don't think I would have horses - they are a full time commitment and sometimes wonder if people appreciate this when they purchase one.
 

The wife

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Re riding schools, I remember learning to ride in a proper riding school that consisted of a muddy field and 3 ponies and 2 horses. We frequently fell off, the ponies bucked, ran off and caused havoc but we damn we'll learnt to stay on quickly. I still source ponies for this same riding school now, which is actually a very impressive set up these days but the standard of the ponies and horses for the school is so high very few actually even make it to the lessons stage, even for the more advanced lessons. The ones we do find who make it are literally pull and kick types who are absolute saints in every aspect. I feel for the owner as he is bound tightly by strict insurance regimes and scared to death of being held responsible.
 

pipsqueek

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I would say definitely that most horses just do not get the work that their owners feed them for, I keep mine on a small yard, the other 3 are happy hackers, one does actually hack but the other two ride their horses @once a week at a walk for half an hour yet feed them twice a day hard feed, and wonder why they are a.fat b.giddy...I compete my mare usually every weekend sj but have been grounded for the past 4 weekends due to horsebox problems and what a difference that has made, although she has been schooled/ridden in the meantime she has become quite sharp (she gets barely a scoop of meadowmix a day, but ad-lib haylage) I would say she is in light to medium work but gets less than the others on the yard, they are all on the farmers haylaye and just don't need much hard food, especially as we all turn out dawn-dusk. Also (I am guilty of this too) I think we all tend to over-rug these days, whereas in the past they just had a NZ on, now they have 400g heavyweights on, no wonder they never want to come in at night - they are far too warm & cozy!!
 

Toffee44

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Agree with most of the above. Also I think a lot more people break themselves now as well which if not experienced can go wrong and then someone else has to pick up he pieces or people are left with dangerous horses.
 

Flame_

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I don't think many horses got turned out at all when not on their summer hols in "the good old days". Yes they spent more time working and less time at the vets but as i understand it, expecting regular turnout is a pretty recent thing.
 

BBP

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For mine, I do believe he is naturally sharp, but how I keep him can make him worse. People like me who work 2 jobs including an unpredictable incident response role can struggle to work their horses as consistently as they need. The roads round me are also so much busier and more dangerous than they used to be, so he lacks the long rides I would have done. The more he works the better he is, so I have to try to work around these blocks, but it isn't easy. Can't blame him for going doolally if I've had a bad week for working him.
 

Shantara

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As others have said - I think management is different. Not that I'm really old enough to remember it any different, but I went with a friend to watch her ride her horse...she did 20mins and got off. That was a usual ride for her.
If I ride in my field (which is rare) I don't ride for long, maybe 10-20mins, but that's because I don't want to churn it up! I used to do long/fast rides with Ned before he went lame and I plan to again but I don't want to push it quite yet!

I don't think people ride as much as they used to, fed more, rugged more, in stables more...not that I'm judging, people can do what they like! I don't think I'm really fit to judge either, haha! Just agreeing with others.
 

Meowy Catkin

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One attitude that I have met regularly recently, is that if the horse is not a push button ride in all circumstances, you sell it and get another one, rather than have lessons and improve your riding.

One of my friends is bringing her horse back into work and he is being slightly nappy (nothing dangerous) and she was telling me that she's lost count of how many times she's been told to 'get rid of it.' However she has gone down the route of checking the basics (saddle fit etc...) and has had lessons on another horse - as she's had a gap from riding while hers was off work - to get her back up to standard.
 

sport horse

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I came into horses in the 1960's as a teenager. I rode for 6 years at a Riding School before having my own horse. This horse was kept at part livery at the riding school (DIY did not exist in those days) It was turned out every day, brought in late pm it was fed hay and a few oats. The horses all looked well and we were all supervised by the owner of the yard. It might have been my horse but the yard owner was very much in control of us all and over 100 horses. She knew her job and noone would have dared to tell her to mind her own business, it is my horse.

I think nowadays people keep their horse at DIY when they have very limited experience. They read a book, or go to a talk and think they know it all. They approach feed companies for feeding advice but these companies can only advise if the facts they are given are correct. A horse that hacks for 20 minutes to half an hour is not in hard work and if fed as if it were in hard work, it will blow its brains/make it sharp or give it laminitis. A horse doing light to medium work with a novice or nervous rider, should live on hay and grass. It does not need mix, supplements etc.

A native pony does not need rugs! It has a perfect fitting and totally waterproof coat given to it by God.

Need I go on? If people spent as much time riding as they do buying feedstuffs, discussing how to muck out every type of bedding and how many rugs to put on then perhaps there would be less sharp horses.

Oh and while I am on my very high horse how many people keep on having lessons once they have their horse? Obviously not too many which is why we have affiliated walk and trot dressage tests and affiliated jumping at 70cm!

Now I am going away to hide while everyone else gets on their high horses!!!!!
 

honetpot

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The animals of the 60's and 70's were mainly not bred to compete, a farmer had a field and he had a neighbours stallion cover his mares. If you were very posh you had a HIS travelling stallion and the mare was covered in your yard and travelled to the next mare. From my experience the animals bred were suitable for the average rider with, no school and no stable to house them, they lived out 24/7 with no rugs.
In the effort to produce completion horses for perhaps the top 5% elite riders we have bought in to the idea that we must have a competition bred animal. Now it may have better confirmation than the haphazard bred farmer produced but with the change of management styles the animal produced is not suitable for the average rider, with no time, limited turnout and the amount of over feeding that goes on.
The irony is that the over bred black and white ponies that are in line to be culled are probably even, taking into account their often poor confirmation are more suitable for the average rider. The development of CHAPs gave cold blooded coloured natives show case but in turn in an effort to improve the coloured cold blood equine yet again the hardiness and the evenness of temperament will be bred out.
The truth is most of us do not ride that well, its a sport, how many that participate in any sport are really good at it? If people bought animals that were suitable for their lifestyle and how they ride now and not how they think they will ride and their aspirations I think they and their animals would be a lot happier.
People will spend money on rugs and extra food but will not spend on an extra £10 a week on livery so their YO can lower the stocking density so there will be more grazing for longer. Land costs around £5-10,000 acre and will not get any cheaper as unless we become like Holland( where they take land from the sea) they will not be making anymore so the cost of land will always increase so I can only see the overstocking problem getting worse.
 

EffyCorsten

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I think there are so many contributing factors, horses being mollycoddled not fed according to the work they are in, a huge offering of feeds that all claim to be the perfect feed for you. lots of hot blooded horses around, tbs no longer confined to the race track and are bred into almost everything it seems. a huge amount of part time breeding going on and a huge proportion of these horses not given the foundations in the first place. Horses are a lot more accessible but I like to think that with so many qualified Riding Instructors now and really useful online learning on here and especially the likes of YouTube, Riding Standards should surely be better than ever.
 

justabob

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I can assure you that the animals of the 60s and 70s were bred to compete. Never read so much rubbish in all my life. Oh and by the way. ..it is conFORMation.
 
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