Are modern bits just a massive con?

Depends what your horse needs, I've used the Jeffries copy of the NS very successfully but then baby horse is doing fab in a second hand NS turtle top bit.

The prices are for the research and development that goes in to the new bots, as much as anything I guess...
 
Jeffries do some great copies. There's a copy of the NS verbindend and one of the myler straight bar with independent sides that cost a fraction of the price.

Are newer bits unnecessary? No. The NS verbindend in particular, is an engineering masterpiece to proved a BD legal 'ported' bit for horses with fat tongues.
 
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Yes, IMO. I think there are those who use them as a quick fix so they don't have to learn to ride properly/school the horse properly/adapt their riding to get the best from the horse/give the horse sufficient work. For most horses I don't see why some sort of "ordinary" style of riding and bog-standard bit wouldn't do the job, the trick is finding the right combination. For the other horses with truely weird mouth conformation or just very unhappy with any bit, there's bitless. A lot of people seem to like to fuss and faff and spend money pointlessly, but if it makes them happy and doesn't harm the horse, who cares.
 
AlexHyde said:
Depends what your horse needs, I've used the Jeffries copy of the NS very successfully but then baby horse is doing fab in a second hand NS turtle top bit.

The prices are for the research and development that goes in to the new bots, as much as anything I guess...
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This, but many horses are quite happy in the cheap options, I think many of us tend to reach for the fancy things as a first step when probably it's actually not necessary :o

I offered my tricky mare all of the expensive bits in my collection that I amassed for millie, she settled on a stainless French link. :rolleyes:

She has similarly cheap tastes in her Weymouth.
 
Well I've happily used the same myler snaffle bit for over fifteen years. I was using a hanging cheek snaffle, my lad was heavy and unresponsive in it. I borrowed a myler and he was instantly a different horse, light and happy. I went out and bought one the same weekend, yes it cost a bit more then I wanted to pay but my horse liked it. I've ridden Him in the same bit ever since , so I think that all in all it was a good purchase. I don't think it's made me a better rider, I wasn't looking for a quick fix, I was looking for a comfortable bit. My other horse has a 12.99 Cambridge snaffle and Kevin is in a £18 fulmer snaffle. So I don't think expensive bits are always the answer. However I also think that people should buy what they want, it's their money.
 
If you go out to buy a pair of shoes you try to buy a pair that are comfortable. if you are lucky you have pretty average feet and lots of pairs fit you fine, if you dont then you might find you need to pay a bit more for something comfortable. If I'm walking around all day, comfort is pretty important to me, I take the same view with my horse (who actually doesn't have an average mouth), if I have to pay a bit more for something that fits him, well that's money well spent.So no, modern bits are not a massive con, any more than modern saddles or modern cars or modern anything. Technology is constantly making improvements in the horse world as well as everywhere else and if you want the improvement, then you need to pay for it.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
For most horses I don't see why some sort of "ordinary" style of riding and bog-standard bit wouldn't do the job, the trick is finding the right combination. For the other horses with truely weird mouth conformation or just very unhappy with any bit, there's bitless. A lot of people seem to like to fuss and faff and spend money pointlessly, but if it makes them happy and doesn't harm the horse, who cares.
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AlexHyde said:
The prices are for the research and development that goes in to the new bots, as much as anything I guess...
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I was thinking about this the other day and marvelling at how far "basic" horse equipment has come on even since the 80's when I first started riding when pretty much everything seemed to be ridden in a snaffle, kimblewick or pelham. I don't think modern bits are a con, nor do I think an ergonomically designed bit is a "quick fix" to make up for poor riding or schooling, but I do think they're a useful tool which reflects a greater understanding of the conformation of the horse's mouth and how this influences the effect a bit can have on the horse and it's comfort levels. As others have said a lot depends on your horse and their needs, but having a bit in their mouth must be pretty strange to start with so what's wrong with taking advantage of the advances in science and investment in R&D by companies like NS if it makes ridden work more comfortable? :)
 
I have a small selection of go-to bits that I have used over the years and I've never needed to try anything else. I've never been particularly experimental with bits and all mine go sweetly in a French link snaffle. Diva had a small kimblewick phase during the 'cob found her strength' few months. Then back in a snaffle.
 
scats said:
I have a small selection of go-to bits that I have used over the years and I've never needed to try anything else. I've never been particularly experimental with bits and all mine go sweetly in a French link snaffle. Diva had a small kimblewick phase during the 'cob found her strength' few months. Then back in a snaffle.
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Me too. I've got one in a kimblewick, but the rest are in various versions of snaffle. A couple with fussy mouths at breaking benefited from sweet iron, which they seem to really like. The only bits I've had to change away from have been single jointed snaffles, where the horse wasn't schooled well enough, and needed to not be hit in the roof of the mouth whilst he got the idea.
 
NS bits are designed to warm up quicker and feel nicer in the horses mouth, however it is mainly the lozenge that your horse needs so i would go for that one.
 
i think (like many things to do with horses) the answer is a combo of "it depends" and "treat each horse as an individual"

my horse has a very average mouth, plenty of room, not too fleshy, good teeth etc and is built uphill in a GP "frame"...............i expected a nice,slightly curved loose ring lozenge would be fine.

wow i was wrong, any loose ring or any double link and he is in self rollkur and no amount of correct riding will get him to confidently take the contact forward.

i tried him in the Sprenger Novcontact (eggbut single joint) and he was a different horse immediately. happy,confident. drawing my hand forward.....£140 well spent i thought.

6 months later i discovered he likes a £12.99 single joint rubber D race bit even better lol!!!! BUT it was the marketing of the sprenger that drew me to try a thick single joint bit, im not sure i would have tried the rubber D ring without having the experience of the sprenger first so i cant say i resent the money at all, as i learnt something from it?

what does get my goat and boil my piss is people who buy a different bit every month, proclaim it a miracle, then repeat monthly without getting help or lessons or trying to improve themselves.................whilst blaming the horse for being tricky!

and off at a total tangent..................has the improvement in breeding availability (ie AI on a global market basis) meant that good mouths are one of the many things (like good legs and feet, good brains, longeivity) that seem to be bred out in favour of a big trot and a flashy colour? are we accidentally breeding horses with such poor mouth confo that we need more complex bits? maybe its just rose tinted glasses but i am only 33 and yet i seem to see many more performance horses with parrot mouths, crooked jaws, huge fleshy tongues and mouth issues NOW than i ever did as a kid (and i worked on some big pro yards so was well exposed to the bitting and mouth care) OR is it just that as technology evolves, the bit design evolves too and they just look rather space age?

is there a £200+ bit my boy would like EVEN MORE than his rubber race snaffle, im not sure?!
 
I don't know , perhaps I just have a simple horse . I've tried the fancy ones to be kinder to the shape of his mouth and all that and he goes better in a bog standard loose ring snaffle .
 
DirectorFury said:
These people http://cotswoldsport.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65&zenid=1ongc7dia079ea8ai59kfssec3 do very good copies of the 'big name' bits for a fraction of the price. I've got one of their universals and the mouthpiece shape is identical to a friends NS Verbindend - hers was over £100, mine was £20!

.
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Not all bits are created equally! The mouthpiece shape may be the same but a lot of the cheaper / copy versions are made with German silver, this is not a coated metal and there is a chance that over time some of the alloy metals could leach into the horses mouth.

As with everything, the cheap option is not always (or hardly ever) the best option
 
I don't think modern bits are a massive con, and many have their place, but it's often just fine tuning things.

Unfortunately blaming bits is easier in most cases than learning to ride the horse.
 
Wheels said:
Not all bits are created equally! The mouthpiece shape may be the same but a lot of the cheaper / copy versions are made with German silver, this is not a coated metal and there is a chance that over time some of the alloy metals could leach into the horses mouth.

As with everything, the cheap option is not always (or hardly ever) the best option
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TBF there are enough reported issues with NS bits breaking that I would be inclined to think I might be better off with a copy anyway :p

Mine doesn't have anything exciting :p, loose ring single joint, tolerates a french link is horrible in a lozenge :p
 
Remember those awful big fat german hollow mouth single jointed snaffles that we were all told were 'kind and mild'? God knows how they were supposed to fit in a horse's mouth without squashing everything.

Even though I'm ancient, I still remember from the 80s the instant transformation for the better of my superstar dressage cob, when we popped a french link in cf a single jointed snaffle.

My current neds like the design of the NS verbindends, very clever and horse friendly.
 
I agree with those who have said that there's nothing wrong with designing for comfort, and that there is cost associated with the development of a new product of this sort.

I would add that I don't think it's an awful lot to pay when you consider how frequently you use it - it might be as important to comfort as having the right saddle. Even if you only ride a couple of times a week, that's 100 times per year so £1 per use in the first year alone. I'd pay £1 each time I ride if I felt my horse was comfortable and we got more out of the session. Try seeing it that way?

They sell on well too - you'll get about 60% of the value back if you choose to sell it, so it's not a sunk cost but more an investment.
 
ihatework said:
I don't think modern bits are a massive con, and many have their place, but it's often just fine tuning things.

Unfortunately blaming bits is easier in most cases than learning to ride the horse.
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This^^

After going down a slippery slope of bits with my old boy... finally a teacher that actually knew how bits worked took pity on me and apart from a kimblewick for the big jumps on him (those days are long gone anyway...:(), I've never used anything but a simple single jointed jeffries snaffle ever since - even when backing my "crazy" mare. I just use a simple hunter bridle too fitted fairly loosely.
 
I got my full cheek with copper roller for £20! Nowhere seemed to sell it, drove round for ages looking. Eventually tried Shires and it arrived in two days. :) and spotty opinionated bitch mare loves it. Have you had a look at their website? They had some loose rings with lozenges for £15+
 
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I think its important to take into account your horses mouth and tongue confo when bitting and the more modern bits do sometimes offer great solutions as far as comfort goes.

I think in a lot of circumstances the rider is to blame for contact issues and sometimes the horse has issues from elsewhere that are displaying as contact issues and then you tend to see a whole host of bits/ gadgets / noseband combos and lots of money being paid sadly investing in the wrong place trying to treat the effect and not the cause.
 
Farma said:
I think its important to take into account your horses mouth and tongue confo when bitting and the more modern bits do sometimes offer great solutions as far as comfort goes.

I think in a lot of circumstances the rider is to blame for contact issues and sometimes the horse has issues from elsewhere that are displaying as contact issues and then you tend to see a whole host of bits/ gadgets / noseband combos and lots of money being paid sadly investing in the wrong place trying to treat the effect and not the cause.
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I agree Farma - this is indicative of the wider issue of training when you see what bits become the best sellers - usually the ones that claim to magically improve the outline or magically insert an effective braking system -
most often used with various pulley and crank systems.

I don't know what it's like for other people but when I learnt to ride, I think I was inadvertently taught to pull -
whether or not it was a reflex that wasn't corrected I don't know. I was never taught the various rein effects/aids and I can't remember if seat aids were taught - it was basically just "kick & pull". It's a shame that its so hard to find trainers that teach rein effects/aids properly or even the seat aids - many riders just revert to a stronger bit as a solution to a schooling problem me included at the time... the answer is out there though... I just wish I found it when I was much younger - would have saved money and also my confidence at times.
 
Farma said:
I think its important to take into account your horses mouth and tongue confo when bitting and the more modern bits do sometimes offer great solutions as far as comfort goes.

I think in a lot of circumstances the rider is to blame for contact issues and sometimes the horse has issues from elsewhere that are displaying as contact issues and then you tend to see a whole host of bits/ gadgets / noseband combos and lots of money being paid sadly investing in the wrong place trying to treat the effect and not the cause.
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Mine was incredibly fussy and unsettled in his mouth. Flipped if you tried to put a flash on but spent most of his time with his mouth open and the rest chomping and chewing. We had his back sorted and these issues miraculously went away. He rides in a NS knock off and drives either in a liverpool or a jointed butterfly pelham with no issue at all.
 
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