Are there some conditions you wouldn't even treat?

Wagtail

Wagtail

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Another thread has got me thinking. In my younger, less experienced days, I have thrown everything at a horse that I possibly could to get them right. I have gone through a few painful journeys and watched others' heartbreak too, as they struggle for years trying to get a horse back to performance. From my own and others' painful, bank and heart breaking experiences, I now have a few conditions that once diagnosed, I would not even try to treat. Apart from making sure the horse is comfortable and if can't be made comfortable, is PTS. The conditions on my list include:

Kissing Spines
Certain ligament disease
Certain fractures
Chronic and persistent laminitis
Surgical colic

I know there will be success stories, but in my own direct experiences, none of the conditions on my list have resulted in treatment which returned a horse to soundness for riding. Field soundness in some cases has been possible.

What conditions would be on your list? Or would you go to the limits of treatment in every case?
 
Totally agree with your list would also add Keratoma especially in a horse in their teens and 20's it is major surgery long recovery and possibility of recurring I had a mare with one in front foot kept her comfortable with expert farrier and vet and after 4 years when it was too large and causing pedal bone to drop pts.
Would never consider colic surgery .
 
Other than major breaks or real no hope injuries I would usually go the once chance route provided the horse was obviously otherwise fit/healthy/rideable.

As soon as there are complicating factors that mean a horse is in (semi) retirement then the level of medical intervention im willing to undergo decreases.

For me ultimately the horse needs a quality of life. If they aren't in full work then they have to be able to be turned out, in a group, relatively pain free. I will not subject a horse to months of box rest for no ultimate good reason.
 
I would add Equine grass Sickness too. Have seen that have recovered from it having had chronic EGS but they are not quite as they were, sweaty patches, staring coat,droopy eye lids, one wonders what else is going on inside
 
For me it would depend on the horse. My horse can be very difficult for other people, especially for vets! and the thought of him spending any length of time in the vets send shivers up my spine, i'd probably have to move in with him. Colic surgery would be a complete no go, i have seen horses come back from treatment for kissing spines and go on to compete at advanced eventing so it would completely depend on the severity. completely agree with you on the laminitis front its such a horrible thing for horses and ponies their quality of life must be compromised.

My last mare had treatment for bone spavin, deep digital flexor tendon and superficial flexor tendon injuries. But she was very easy to do and laid back so the rehab wasnt a problem and she did come completely sound.
 
Surgical colic - because of where we live, it would be a 5 hr drive to Vet school in the first place.

EGS - I've had a chronic, and known others try their hearts out and have to call it quits - too heartbreaking.

I believe one of mine may have KS, but I've been happy to keep her as a pet so can't comment. This horse also fractured her tibia as a 2yr old and did go on to have a usual life until she objected too much to being ridden.

I agree chronic intractable laminitis. Have got one through acute, toxic lami following atypical myopathy and he's back in full work, better than ever but he is an exception.
 
Nothing that requires prolonged box rest for months. Nothing that would require significant pain or discomfort for the horse over a prolonged recovery period, regardless of how good the prognosis was. Nothing that has permanent and compete retirement as the certain outcome, especially if quality of life is compromised as well.

I think some people put horses through far too much - it doesn't matter how good the prognosis, some treatments and recovery times are just too much to subject a horse to; they don't understand they're going to get better.
 
I agree with your list
For me I won't treat proximal suspensories unless exceptionally mild. I've had the surgery on one and still failed despite vets giving 80% success rate.
I retired an 8yr old with it a few years later
 
I've got 6, they're all individuals and my decisions would be based on their individual needs and what I feel would be right for each one and their quality of life. I wouldn't like to limit my choices, or their lives, by ruling out treatment for specific conditions.
 
I would never have a hard and fast list because all our experience is anecdotal. If you'd had a great experience with recovery from something you might be inclined to treat when it wasn't the best option for another horse and vice versa. Also, veterinary medicine progresses over time

For me it is a question of finding the most up to date info on the condition in question at the time it arrises and making the decision as independently as possible.

For me personally an animal is for life, not for working life, so something that can be made happy in a field would be good enough. Once you are in the horsey world it is usually easy enough to get offered a ride on something else to satisfy that part of your horsey desires.
 
I agree with the OP's list.
I'd also add equine grass sickness as I've seen what it can do and anything as well that affects the horse's quality of life.
 
ihatework said:
Other than major breaks or real no hope injuries I would usually go the once chance route provided the horse was obviously otherwise fit/healthy/rideable.

As soon as there are complicating factors that mean a horse is in (semi) retirement then the level of medical intervention im willing to undergo decreases.
Click to expand...

Yep, same here. I'd really struggle with not giving a working horse a chance, provided treatment was within budget and with a fair expectation of success.
 
I'd agree with the OPs list although each horse is different and getting advice from a few different vets/specialists always helps. To mine I'd add serious suspensory issues having had to PTS an 8yo ex racehorse in March for this reason. He developed 2 splints in front whilst having a week off in the field, we rested him in the field for 2 months then did the usual rest walk etc but he was on/off lame the vet thought one splint may have developed internally and be effecting his suspensory so we tried a period of 6 wks box rest and re assess, he was sound in walk lame in trot and hopping after any kind of flexion so he was sent to Newmarket for nerve blocks and scans which revealed holes in both front suspensories from old undisclosed injuries. He was prescribed box rest which he couldnt cope with and kicked holes in the stable so we switched to paddock rest but he became stressed with not being in work for so long and would charge round doing the wall of death and weaving causing him to be crippled in front. He was an absolute diamond of a horse temperament to die for and talent in any sphere. What a waste, vets bills topping 3000+ and a lot of heartache. I had my 20yo PTS for arthritis in all 4 legs, fetlocks and his knees in front, he was struggling to get up from rolling and legs were filling when the cold set in plus he had lost his spark so we made the decision. I think when the horses welfare physically/mentally becomes effected then no matter what the cause, it should be looked into xx
 
For me it depends on the horse. If there's hope I would consider treating but I would have to feel that the horse could cope with the treatment plan. I'd always said I wouldn't put a horse through colic surgery, but faced with a horse who was still fighting but need surgery to stand a chance I said yes & we had 7 more years together before he died of something totally unrelated. So I can honestly only say it depends.
 
It depends entirely on the horse and their prospects for a good future quality of life. I object strongly to animals having excessive, prolonged and expensive treatment because their owners don't have the guts or compassion to let them go at the right time - to me that's so cruel and selfish.
 
I couldn't put either of mine through prolonged box rest. Not just their PSSM but also their temperaments. I hope I'm brave enough to remember that statement if it ever comes to it.

We had a horse operated on for a broken leg at the yard. She tolerated the box rest but I came in to feed one morning and the light had gone from her eyes. She was PTS later that day - infection. I'd found her in the field with the broken leg and if she'd been mine she'd have been PTS there & then, but I respect the owner trying - she was a favourite, but I never felt there was going to be a good outcome.
 
I wouldn't buy another horse with suspensory ligament problems - in fact, I'd have them scanned pre purchase, as the sort of horse I'd go for would be high risk for PSD. Would I have bought Alf, knowing then what I know now? Absolutely! He is moe of a pet than a riding horse, and I'm perfectly happy to muddle along, riding him when he's sound, and resting him when he's creaky.
 
I think it also depends on your circumstances and any other issues the horse may have. My horse has been referred for scintigraphy having rehabbed well from PSD and then becoming lame again; after further treatment he is still not 'right' - we are nearing the 'last chance saloon' and yet this is a horse that looks a million dollars and it would be a hard decision to give up. This will wipe out the insurance money and probably see him excluded on all four legs. Vet says he would probably be ok to hack but we are in a part of the country where even the country lanes are rat runs and the fields are generally too wet to use in the winter even if the landowner permits it. Most other horses I would try and find a hacking home for, perhaps somewhere else in the country or consider retiring to the field. But this is a chronic cribber who is also an escape artist if he gets bored - the prospect of him being moved from home to home is not something I could stand, so if he doesn't come right I'm going to have to make a decision that I would not wish on anyone.
 
Your list is mine but it would also depend on quality of life I like mine to live as a pony should able to move about and mix in their small herd if that became impossible in the majority of times I would PTS. I am a firm and dedicated believer in mental as well as physical well being. I would likely PTS the old girl and the dangerous one if I could no longer keep them in a manner to which they have become accustomed for financial reasons too. The young one I would give to her rider and pay as much as possible for her upkeep
 
Ordinarily, I'd go with your list, too.

BUT. I have one in _GG_'s field because I couldn't bring myself to do it. It would have been 6 months after the last one. The one in the field sat down like a dog from a gallop, tore his left hind suspensory and crushed his lumbosacral joint. Sue Dyson gave him a less than 50% chance of recovery, but not a less than 25% chance. On that basis, I gave him a year. He ended up in _GG_'s field because the fireworks caused him to lose his marbles. It has been 3 years now, but that's because my own circumstances have been a complete and utter disaster. I'm pretty convinced he's sound now. I just need to sort my life out.

The horse before had a fractured ilial shaft that couldn't stand up to the work. And mild KS. We didn't know about the former until PM, but we did know that the horse had become increasingly aggressive. I called the vet to discuss after horse came out of his stable feet first; vet said he was getting the deed done because he feared for my life.

After those experiences, I'm afraid I wouldn't hesitate to PTS if there was little hope of recovery. I have an older mare (15) and I am very aware that she's full of melanoma. The minute they start to interfere with things is the minute I put on my big girl pants and call the vet.
 
ihatework said:
Other than major breaks or real no hope injuries I would usually go the once chance route provided the horse was obviously otherwise fit/healthy/rideable.

As soon as there are complicating factors that mean a horse is in (semi) retirement then the level of medical intervention im willing to undergo decreases.

For me ultimately the horse needs a quality of life. If they aren't in full work then they have to be able to be turned out, in a group, relatively pain free. I will not subject a horse to months of box rest for no ultimate good reason.
Click to expand...

100% this. With my current two horses (19yo gelding still in work and 26yo retired mare) I would not put them through colic surgery, or anything else that required more than a few weeks box rest, mainly due to their age. The 19yo has done a couple of long stints of box rest in the past (longest was 5 months aged 11) and even though he is a saint on box rest, I would aim to try field rest for any injuries.
 
I'd probably add any major SI issues. It is such a crucial area in terms of core stability and straighness and has to deal with such a big load. Once something goes wrong, it invariably stays wrong (in my experience anyway).
 
I trust my vet and would take his advice if it wasn't a clear cut case
Often you get so far down the line with diagnosis and trying different things that 'one more thing' doesn't seem such a big step and you don't want to give up at that stage. With hindsight you may wish you had made that decision sooner, but you weren't equipped with all the facts.
 
Grass sickness .
Surgical colic
Severe foot problems .
I would treat KS depending on the age and type of horse mine Is doing really really well following having six dorsal spines reshaped he jumping , hunting and schooling better and better he happy I am having a wonderful time with him.
I am stricter about young horses what I mean by that is I will invest more in an older horse who has training and experiance on his side so a six year old with arthritis I would not invest my money in ,a sixteen year old I would .
It's a difficult thing you need to be so much more on the ball now when I was young it was simple so little could be done you did not have to take hard choices .
 
I feel that many horses are kept going long after it would be kinder and more practical to just let them go. This is a fairly recent occurance, due I think to the shift in view of the horse as a pet rather than to do a job, and also because so many people now have vet insurance. Just because you can keep an animal going doesn't mean it is necessarily in that animal's best interest.

For me there are many factors that go into the decision to treat or not/PTS: age, cost, length of recovery and ardousness (is that a word, even?) of proceedures and treatment. I would never send a horse for colic surgery (I've had to look after several post surgery and would not put a horse through that), nor keep one on many months of box rest. Chronic lameness: no. Turn a horse away for a year? Yes.
 
I don't have a list of anything I wouldn't treat. I have a list of things I need to consider before making a decision to treat:

1. Type of treatment - for example a corticosteroid injection for Kissing Spines is not the same as an operation
2. Rehab involved - as someone mentioned lengthy box rest is not ideal, and how long the rehab will last is another question
3. Prognosis following treatment - what quality of life will the horse have and how likely is the issue to recur or cause problems?
4. Cost of treatment - I love my horses but I can't blow all my money on treating a condition that may not result in the horse returning to full health
5. Age and condition of the horse - older horse it might be kinder to just PTS
6. Severity of condition - this ties into the treatment required and prognosis
 
I had a young horse pts because her only treatment option was an operation and prolonged box rest - with not a great success rate on the op.

However I have another that I know would cope with prolonged box rest so I may have considered it for her.

I really try hard to do what is best for each horse, but I also try and be pragmatic and realistic about it.
 
Wagtail said:
Another thread has got me thinking. In my younger, less experienced days, I have thrown everything at a horse that I possibly could to get them right. I have gone through a few painful journeys and watched others' heartbreak too, as they struggle for years trying to get a horse back to performance. From my own and others' painful, bank and heart breaking experiences, I now have a few conditions that once diagnosed, I would not even try to treat. Apart from making sure the horse is comfortable and if can't be made comfortable, is PTS. The conditions on my list include:

Kissing Spines
Certain ligament disease
Certain fractures
Chronic and persistent laminitis
Surgical colic

I know there will be success stories, but in my own direct experiences, none of the conditions on my list have resulted in treatment which returned a horse to soundness for riding. Field soundness in some cases has been possible.

What conditions would be on your list? Or would you go to the limits of treatment in every case?
Click to expand...

Agree with everything on your list.
 
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