Arean Uk BD-frustrating day:

SpottedCat said:
Amymay - there is no way anyone has enough insurance cover to claim GG for 12 months. I ended up spending my full 5k allowance and putting a grand of my own money into getting the horse right. It took over a year to get him totally sorted, totally wrecked my confidence in the process, and was an utter nightmare.
Click to expand...

Apols, maths was never my strong point.
 
PS - yep, no reason not to use the omaprazole in the same way if it works is there? I'd considered it myself as its so much cheaper, but have advanced ulcer paranoia and would never forgive myself if I did and it didn't work as well as GG and the ulcers came back.

If you do end up down the antibiotic route then do PM me - it is the most hellish experience and I might be able to make it a little better?
 
omeprazole doesn't work the same way... if you're giong t trial anything, try the GG then at least you know if the fully functioning medicine works and can see if the crappy medicine has the same effect. Or scope him, then you know what you're dealing with (and I'm sure a few less luxury numnahs etc. would help with the cost of the scope!)
 
SusieT said:
omeprazole doesn't work the same way... if you're giong t trial anything, try the GG then at least you know if the fully functioning medicine works and can see if the crappy medicine has the same effect. Or scope him, then you know what you're dealing with (and I'm sure a few less luxury numnahs etc. would help with the cost of the scope!)
Click to expand...

Can someone please explain why it doesn't?

Is it just the way it is presented/availability?

ETS: Sorry PS, it's off topic. I am just curious as a scientist what makes gastrogard so special. What does the patent actually cover as clearly omeprazole is off patent now so it isn't that active substance, must be something else?
 
omeprazole is still on patent in the UK until 2015 but is off patent in the US so it is the active substance that it is covering.

I found a really interesting list comparisons yesterday but can't locate it today!

sorry I'm back, I *think* ie don't quote :p essentially omeprazole is rather susceptible to being destroyed by the acid, so it needs some protective carrier agents. In addition compounded omeprazole (which I take to be the powdered version) might not be very shelf stable or bioavailable.
 
Last edited:
ester said:
omeprazole is still on patent in the UK until 2015 but is off patent in the US so it is the active substance that it is covering.

I found a really interesting list comparisons yesterday but can't locate it today!
Click to expand...

Ah, I see! Do you know (just cos I am a pharma geek) who owns the patent? I will have a look on t'internet but am not the best with google and unless I phone the patent lawyer (might be considered a bit of a waste of company time? :p) I probably won't be able to find out!!


ETS: never mind it's an AZ patent :) Armed with that I am off to investigate. :)
 
Last edited:
Someone more knowledgeable than me will no doubt explain correctly, but my understanding is it has something to do with availability/targeting, specifically how the drug is encapsulated.

The other issue, for some vets, with all feed through products is reliability. With a tube of something, you're pretty sure it all gets where it's supposed to go, if done properly, but it's not always so cut and dried in food. Also, is there not an issue with when it's supposed to be taken to get optimal results? My OH takes a product which I understand to be in the same class and instructions clearly state not to chew it and not with food - both of which are tricky when you're hiding it in food! :)

Of course, this doesn't mean the drug won't work, it just means you're not getting optimal effects, which is why, when medicating is used as a diagnostic (which, as I said, is very common in some areas) vets prefer the paste.

Now, that said, drug companies, especially in the US, are fearsome animals so maybe it's all just in the spin!

I think Merial owns the patent but don't quote me. Oh apparently ^ I'm right!

Oh, I see Merial now helpfully produces a lesser strength, non-prescription paste product for maintenance as well. Of course they do. :D
 
Last edited:
ester said:
sorry I'm back, I *think* ie don't quote :p essentially omeprazole is rather susceptible to being destroyed by the acid, so it needs some protective carrier agents. In addition compounded omeprazole (which I take to be the powdered version) might not be very shelf stable or bioavailable.
Click to expand...

I read a couple of papers yesterday (yes, I really am that much of a geek :( ) that seemed to imply the same re stability and the need to coat. It seems to me that the generics in the states are all coated in a similar fashion to the patented drug (prilosec in humans) and a lot of the patent litigation that has gone on around the drug involve this coating.

People who buy omeprazole, are they actually just buying the drug substance? I had no idea you could do that!! America is a weird place! I assumed people were just buying the generic drug product (ie capsules for humans) to use here.

TS: yes, your right. It does imply it should be taken on an empty stomach :)

All very interesting if you're as sad and tragic as I am!

1
ETS: Merial hold patent but AZ the trademark it would seem!
 
Last edited:
And that lesser strength paste equates to exactly one quarter of a tube of GG and is an over the counter medicine in the US. Isn't that a coincidence?! ;)
 
for some reason I had never realised that merial was AZ until yesterday!

I prob am as sad and tragic as you ;) and anything that is more interesting than writing up :p
 
As I said way, way back. It's a waste of money feeding it in granule form. I bought it off an American website not really thinking about what I was doing. Read instructions when it arrived to add it to the feed and thought, hmmm. That aint gonna work! Half was spat out, kicked over etc and since it's supposed to be given on an empty stomach, probably wouldn't have worked even if she'd eaten it all. Biggest waste of £150 ever :(
 
SusieT said:
omeprazole doesn't work the same way... if you're giong t trial anything, try the GG then at least you know if the fully functioning medicine works and can see if the crappy medicine has the same effect. Or scope him, then you know what you're dealing with (and I'm sure a few less luxury numnahs etc. would help with the cost of the scope!)
Click to expand...



Gastrogard IS omeprazole...

Mine is on Gastrogard (will be 6 weeks when done) and will be on Omeprazole in 3 weeks....


i cannot afford GG forever....she needs 1/4 a tube a day, however Ome, is 1 sachet a day



I am scoping in 3 weeks (6 weeks on GG) then putting her on a month of Omeprazole... re-scoping....


So i will put my horses reults forward if anyones interested to see the results of bothe GG and omeprazole


GG does work as she improved significantly... if for any reason Ome dosent work (should do... my vet confirmed it)! then i am trialing an error with other stuff.....


:)
 
Loving that this post has got back to something intresting rather than a bitching session!

Very intresting about the GG and Omeprazol will be intrested to see what comes on the market once the patent runs out. Noodle would you mind doing a post about the results when you have them?
 
Haven’t read the whole thread but :O!!!! PS I had my Sj'r scoped around 4wks ago as he was very stressy/naughty at shows and except it being a training issue (ive only had him 12months and hes improving day by day) I thought of ulcers, hes worse at certain shows and is normally fine if we do some dressage. Scope came back clear I really hoped it would show something as would be an answer but in my heart I knew he was fine, looks fantastic, eats well,etc etc.It cost £192 in total for bloods too, but well worth it for my peice of mind, I dont know alot about the drug you have ordered but I would say its worth a try, when you have a difficult horse ANYTHING is worth a try!! If you see improvement then get him scoped. I'm also trying a new calmer for Equifeast, its Cool calm and collected but WITHOUT magnesium, and 10days in, I think its working. Its not available online yet but may be worth speaking to Malcolm or Marcus.
R.e the ring pressure.... Is he naughty at certain places? Mine will be awesome one day and horrid the next, just depends on what horse you bring out of the box, CS is a beautiful horse and very talented, to the person who said about hes a thoroughbred just bred for racing, I disagree! He would not be where he is at today if he was just a racehorse!! Hes talented just because he doesn’t have a red kwpn passport personally I couldn’t tell the difference between him and mine(who is a wb!!)
Good luck PS i really hope you find an answer PM me if you would like any more info on the calmer
 
Ilovefoals said:
As I said way, way back. It's a waste of money feeding it in granule form. I bought it off an American website not really thinking about what I was doing. Read instructions when it arrived to add it to the feed and thought, hmmm. That aint gonna work! Half was spat out, kicked over etc and since it's supposed to be given on an empty stomach, probably wouldn't have worked even if she'd eaten it all. Biggest waste of £150 ever :(
Click to expand...

I dont think you can really say that, obviously it didnt work for your horse, but doesnt mean it wont work for others.

I bought Omeprazole from the US to treat my mare as she isn't insured and I couldnt afford to pay for GG (it was all done on advice from my vet). She had 3 sachets a day - in her feed - of Omperazole and there was a huge difference within a week of her having it. She has done a 5wk course on 3 sachets a day and is now down to the maintenance of 1 sachet a day, again on the advice of my vet.

I have had no problems at all in feeding the granules and have had amazing results from them. My mare is 19 and, at the want of sounding like a broken record, out competing and winning at Elementary/Medium level BD after having nearly 6yrs off breeding me two youngsters. She looks and feels better than ever and nothing else in her diet has changed apart from the addition of Omeprazole.

I am not however saying it will have the same effect on everyones horses, it worked for mine, doesnt mean it will work for others.

With reference to PS, I dont see any harm in her trying Star on it at all, if it works it works, if it doesnt, I am sure PS will do whatever she feels is right for her horse.
 
ester said:
for some reason I had never realised that merial was AZ until yesterday!

I prob am as sad and tragic as you ;) and anything that is more interesting than writing up :p
Click to expand...

How's it going? I am almost, almost thinking about applying for next year. Tell me this is lunacy please. I've never wanted to do one before and I know I'll hate it so what is wrong with me?!

Ilovefoals said:
As I said way, way back. It's a waste of money feeding it in granule form. I bought it off an American website not really thinking about what I was doing. Read instructions when it arrived to add it to the feed and thought, hmmm. That aint gonna work! Half was spat out, kicked over etc and since it's supposed to be given on an empty stomach, probably wouldn't have worked even if she'd eaten it all. Biggest waste of £150 ever :(
Click to expand...

Why not just re suspend it in water/yoghurt and syringe it in. Got to be better than putting it in food and more of a known quantity then?

noodle_ said:
Gastrogard IS omeprazole...

So i will put my horses reults forward if anyones interested to see the results of bothe GG and omeprazole
Click to expand...

I for one would be very interested to know the results noodle_ :)

And gg is made of omeprazole. They are the same drug substance. The only difference is the way they are presented. Sounds like a small difference but can be more significant than people expect but as no one really knows yet it seems silly to write off generic omeprazole just yet! I think your horse will be an interesting case study FWIW :)
 
noodle_ said:
Gastrogard IS omeprazole...

Mine is on Gastrogard (will be 6 weeks when done) and will be on Omeprazole in 3 weeks....


i cannot afford GG forever....she needs 1/4 a tube a day, however Ome, is 1 sachet a day



I am scoping in 3 weeks (6 weeks on GG) then putting her on a month of Omeprazole... re-scoping....


So i will put my horses reults forward if anyones interested to see the results of bothe GG and omeprazole


GG does work as she improved significantly... if for any reason Ome dosent work (should do... my vet confirmed it)! then i am trialing an error with other stuff.....


:)
Click to expand...

This is exactly how they recommend using it - Gg to sort the horse out initially, a lesser strength product for maintenance.
 
My mare is on the America ompeprazole and she had a very stressful couple of weeks (at 3 packs a day) complete change of routine and constant poking and proding and touch wood, she hasn't coliced yet (which is her ulcer sign) so I'm thinking it must be working from reading the papers they recommend on a empty stomach as the coating only lasts 5 hrs in stomach acid so if the stomach is full it's not likely to get through before the coating wears off.
 
I know the drug works for my horse as she's already had 8wks worth of GG. I just found it impossible to give the correct amount of granules when some is lost thru the horse dropping feed, bucket accidently kicked over and the fact that Omeprazole is most effective when fed on an empty stomach. Since PS has already ordered it, my post is probably pointless as I was just trying to save her some money. Also, if it isn't effective fed like that as was with my mare, it may make some people think "oh well, my horse can't have ulcers then" when in fact they still could well have ulcers, it's just that the granules haven't worked in the way that GG does. Only trying to help. And no, it probably wont do him any harm to try it.
 
jesstickle said:
How's it going? I am almost, almost thinking about applying for next year. Tell me this is lunacy please. I've never wanted to do one before and I know I'll hate it so what is wrong with me?!
Click to expand...

I think you and me might need to have a chat about this ;) :) perhaps with JFTD :p. (hopefully finished writing up juneish, while multiple labs onsite scrap over me to do some casual work to pay for it, and fitting in proper job hunting :( examiners can't do until sept/oct tho so a bit of a buffer)

Ps sorry if we have hi-jacked your thread a bit but it is interesting, hope you don't mind :).
 
Ilovefoals said:
I know the drug works for my horse as she's already had 8wks worth of GG. I just found it impossible to give the correct amount of granules when some is lost thru the horse dropping feed, bucket accidently kicked over and the fact that Omeprazole is most effective when fed on an empty stomach. Since PS has already ordered it, my post is probably pointless as I was just trying to save her some money. Also, if it isn't effective fed like that as was with my mare, it may make some people think "oh well, my horse can't have ulcers then" when in fact they still could well have ulcers, it's just that the granules haven't worked in the way that GG does. Only trying to help. And no, it probably wont do him any harm to try it.
Click to expand...

As someone who has used it is there a reason you can't syringe it in to them? Surely that has to be the best option for granules which are soluble and are meant to be taken on an empty stomach. Am I missing something? Are they really chunky and hard to dissolve?

ester said:
I think you and me might need to have a chat about this ;) :) perhaps with JFTD :p. (hopefully finished writing up juneish, while multiple labs onsite scrap over me to do some casual work to pay for it, and fitting in proper job hunting :( examiners can't do until sept/oct tho so a bit of a buffer)
Click to expand...

I know I don't really want to do it. I am just a bit disillusioned at the moment. Would be much worse doing a PhD though! I know that really. That's a bum about examiners. Are you looking for post docs or are you going to come to industry do you think?
 
Sneedy said:
Think Merial is the animal health division of Sanofi not AZ??
Click to expand...

It is Sanofi I think. But AZ definitely hold the trade marks so there must be some deal/connection going on there?

The world of pharma is sooo complicated. Even when you work in it!! :eek:
 
Holidays_are_coming said:
If u dissolve the granules you lose there enteric coating so they are best mixed with molasses or something sticky
Click to expand...

I thought the whole point is that they aren't coated? Otherwise why would anyone bother with Gastrogard? :confused: :eek: I shall go off and do some more googling as I've clearly missed somethign!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top