Arean Uk BD-frustrating day:

jesstickle said:
I thought the whole point is that they aren't coated? Otherwise why would anyone bother with Gastrogard? :confused: :eek: I shall go off and do some more googling as I've clearly missed somethign!
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I think they are coated, the debate is over what with. Aren't the Gg people suing some of the other suppliers over similarities which they feel impinge patent?
 
Jess they are definately coated :)

fortunately CS is a piggy eater and licks the bucket clean so doubt many will get missed!

advice i have had from US is to sprinke on top of feed right before feeding to minimise mushing up/unintentional dissolving.

i had a clients horse in for schooling that had GG, just before feed in am and pm???????????????????????????????????
 
GG Should be given at least 30 mins before feed on an empty stomach for best effect - I used to take horse out of stable whilst mucking out, then give GG after I'd finished, then groom then ride. It's a faff!

This may also not be helpful, but now GBO is on fibre feed (pure feeds) I feed him with ulcer calm added whilst I'm grooming, then ride. Totally against what you were taught about feeding but actually fine to do if you have a fibre only diet. Makes a big difference to how argumentative he is.
 
Jeez - what a thread! I only got up to about page 15 and not sure i have time to read the rest!

PS - My thoughts, for what they are worth. Sorry i haven't read all your previous posts but does he exhibit other signs of having gastric ulcers other than the rearing? I sometimes think that gastric ulcers are everyone's answer at the moment. They seem to be very fashionable! I recently tried Omeprazole on my mare who i suspected my have gastric ulcers (she cribs and is a bit girthy) but have noticed absolutely no difference after a month. I also had my other mare scoped (as she behaved like she had them) but was totally clear. Whilst i am sure they are very common, i think sometimes the HHO forum can make us think that all horses have got them. Having said all that, if he exhibits other signs of gastric upset then i would definitely have him scoped so at least you can rule it out. I feel that using Omeprazole might not tell you anything. Its not like he rears up every day so you might not be able to tell the difference and he could have a good run of form and it just be conincidence.

Of course, the rearing could just be naughty behaviour, but it strikes me that there is something else going on, particularly the way that it seems to be so random and without much warning. For instance, my 5 yr old went up (rather explosively) on Saturday but i know exactly why she did it. She was napping to her mate, over excited, wanted her own way and i couldn't get her feet moving as someone was in the way.

As someone else said, thermal imaging may be a useful tool. It is by no means perfect but it may pick out some areas which your vet could look at and rule out or in.

The other point that jumped out at me was that he was worse in a snaffle......have you ruled out any mouth problems? Again the thermal imaging may help here.

By the way, I think you do a great job with CS and you do a good job of ignoring some of the bi*c*y comments on here.
 
What's interesting is that despite all this really useful information, CS may not even require it - his antics might be caused by something completely different and without a scope you'll never know? :confused:

Even if he improves on any of the drugs, he may have improved anyway as it may be as you say PS because it is perhaps not best to give him the winter off. You could therefore continue giving drugs when they are not required, so wouldn't it be better to do the scope anyway and then try the Omeprazole granules have ordered so you know what you are trying to cure? Especially as you say you are on a restricted budget and could end up paying for the drugs for a long time because you are under the impression they work, but you won't have actual proof that they have - just a thought?
 
Tempi said:
I dont think you can really say that, obviously it didnt work for your horse, but doesnt mean it wont work for others.

I am not however saying it will have the same effect on everyones horses, it worked for mine, doesnt mean it will work for others.
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So you instantly dismiss some anecdotal evidence saying it doesn't work yet then immediately state factually that it did work for you. Did you scope pre and post treatment? Were ulcers even officially diagnosed in your horse? Lots and lots of anecdotes in this thread, no real evidence either way.

NR99 said:
What's interesting is that despite all this really useful information, CS may not even require it - his antics might be caused by something completely different and without a scope you'll never know? :confused:
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That's it. Give a drug which may or may not work for a specific type of ulcers, to a horse that may or may not have ulcers. Just because others are doing it doesn't make it right...
 
BH do you just never learn? You tried to be clever on FB before and very nearly got yourself into serious trouble.

I'm really glad you have made some progress with your own horse, its soul destroying when things are not 'right' as im sure you know only too well. This however doesn't give you the right to be spiteful to other people because they are encountering some issues.

If you have nothing nice to say then do the adult thing and say nothing.

When you post on the defensive you seem intent on making things personal by using someone's name. Unless that person chooses to make their name public then don't abuse your position of knowledge.

It's easy to hide behind a user ID but I wonder just how brave you would be face to face?

A life conducted by revelling in other people's misfortune (which btw you make a habit of, and i should know as you directed some of your FB posts at me and my family personally) is no life at all.

PS if you would like the name of a pharmacist on here let me know, I'm know she would be happy to help in demystifying drugs and brand names etc.

Blitz is off form too so think it might just be bay boys being a bit batty!
 
TarrSteps said:
I think they are coated, the debate is over what with. Aren't the Gg people suing some of the other suppliers over similarities which they feel impinge patent?
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I could find at least three instances where AZ (cos it was the human one I was looking at) tried to sue generic manufacturers specifically over the coating so it would make sense if it was the same with the horse one!

Pharma is such an insane industry. That is my whole observation from this. lol :D
 
if he improves consistantly on the omeprazole, and stays inmroved, safe to say its working because he IS so erratic, anything thats making a difference makes a continued difference-he has got less prickly/snappy and happier since changing sugar beet to grass nuts, has got looser over his back and stifle has nearly stopped sticking completely (as long as in work) whilst using magnet rug, he got consistantly and progressively worse on pure feeds etc-its easy to tell with him after a week or 2 weeks because that particular issue loses its erratic-ness (if thats a word)...........hasten to add that nothing has ever made him more, or less, prone to standing up.

his teeth are fine, he's done by Dean Andrews who i have 500% faith in, i wouldnt want anyone else to do them and he isnt *mouthy*-doesnt toss head, chomp bit, lean on one side, spit food etc. The contact issue is that he is over light in a snaffle, takes it forward in a double, if teeth were sore i think he'd be worse with the weight/bulk of 2 bits, surely?
 
To those wondering - the AstraZeneca link with omeprazole is that they had the original patent on the drug as capsules of enteric coated granules under the brand name of Losec. So although GG is a patented product, the patent is not on the drug, but on its presentation as has already been said. Another company can legally come up with another veterinary omeprazole product as long as the presentation does not infringe the GG patent. The patent on AZs replacement product Nexium (esomeprazole - the active isomer of omeprazole) has also just ran out, although doubt this drug will filter into the veterinary market.
 
Oh my, wasted a lot of my evening reading this. :s
Ps - sounds like you've got lots of option, good luck with your research. Hope you find something that might be of use.

Do you think there will be any chance of this post making the top 5 in hh this week? :s
 
^ they usually keep the controversial ones out I think....

Interesting that I have learnt more about my employer and it's patents/expiry/legal battle on an horse forum!! I never knew there were so many of us employed by the great corporate wheel of 'improving lives' !!
 
jesstickle said:
And gg is made of omeprazole. They are the same drug substance. The only difference is the way they are presented. Sounds like a small difference but can be more significant than people expect but as no one really knows yet it seems silly to write off generic omeprazole just yet! I think your horse will be an interesting case study FWIW :)
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thanks - will keep you updated :)

TarrSteps said:
This is exactly how they recommend using it - Gg to sort the horse out initially, a lesser strength product for maintenance.
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yep thats the plan - 6 weeks on GG and 1 sachet per day maintence of OMe....and re-scope to make sure the amount of OME is working - if not the scope shoudl tell us.... and i can up the OME amount and re-scope!!

Insurance runs out by next scope (3 months - 5k :o ) so will be funding it myself :)
 
just a quick update, all ive changed so far is that he's had a quick massage with the hand held unit before riding, and now has a big dead ferret poll pad instead of his leather one, and a slightly chunkier rubber curb guard, and he has been weirdly good last 2 nights! one minor nap (proper napping to a pony leaving the yard for a hack, was so obviously a nappy moment!!!!) but a swift boot and he was off, really good boy........odd........good,but odd.........

will continue to play with bits and bobs and update :)
 
Llanali said:
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Interesting that I have learnt more about my employer and it's patents/expiry/legal battle on an horse forum!! I never knew there were so many of us employed by the great corporate wheel of 'improving lives' !!
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Good innit? The learning I mean. I'm not so entirely convinced by the 'improving lives' corporate wheel. Pretty sure they're all evil once you get near enough the top. But hey, someone has to develop new drugs don't they? Or in our case tests for diseases you don't actually need to test for because there isn't any treatment :rolleyes:
 
Again not getting into the whole legal whatever battle. PS you might find it works better if you mix it with live yoghurt and syringe it before feeds. I just know that anecedotally with work horses that anything with a gastro upset absorb drugs better this way. Personally I was surprised when I was given diclofenac for back pain that they didn't also give me Omeprazole to counteract the effect that diclofenac can have on the guts, a previous doctor had but my current doctors don't bother. Thankfully a friend had some so I managed to get the right drugs down me and get better!
 
Another thought is the calmer... have you used that dose before? Could he have been fighting it. I used to use Pro Kalm on my previous horse. It was seriously effective, he was totally horizontal on it (sadly also flat for mediocre marks..) but when the effect started to wear off he'd get really fidgety, much more so than he would be on a normal basis. Maybe there's something in the way that the calmer is working on him?
 
Jesstickle- cant quote as on phone but the improving lives was definitely mainly tongue in cheek....... I think improving lives goes hand in hand with improving profit in the world we work in.
 
He looks stunning, so smart and grown up!

My only comments are we all have off days - animals included!

We all have bad days - usually with no mental/ physical reason.

Lets face it we can all be little sh**s for no reason so why cant horses?!??!
 
PS did you get his eyes looked at today?

Interested to know if anything has come from that, if it's any consolation my lad has been a complete knobber lately! :p
 
my only comment would be that you can't complain you don't get any comments on your competition reports, PS :D

(well alright, secondary comments would include that he looks lovely before he flipped out :p )
 
Dont normally post in here but do follow your threads, He is stunning! I would def send my camel pony to you for schooling :D

Alll horses have off days as do humans!
 
ah what a shame....
he looks super, really working beautifully
maybe its spring grass combined with a comp that didnt quite mix?i know my lot have been very full of themselves, esp once the warmer weather ended and we seem to be back into chilly spring weather.
as an aside, re the drug route, id be guided by the vet tbh. speaking as a healthcare profession, you could be wasting your time and money unnecessarily buying meds.... esp GG which is £££
 
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Just like to ask whats wrong with getting the Horse scoped?? I have an ex racer which had clear sympstoms of ulcers so to be sure i got it scoped before i started pumping exspensive/ supplements medicines into him.

Dont want to sound rude and i have not read whole thread or so but i do question why not scope!

P.s he is a luvly looking boy hopefully my boy will soon look as good as him. gives me hope!
 
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there has been an update since this thread, that would indicate the horse is responding to omeprazole, thus must have ulcers of some form as he is not a horse to be easy peasy several days in a row!

have had 3 fab rides this week and he is DEFINATELY more forward, quicker, and looser over the back, sooner, cant be coincidence as the omeprazole is the only thing thats changed.

whilst i can see that scoping straight away is the ideal route, in this case i have saved ££££ to put towards more omeprazole and vet agrees that his improvement is more than likely due to that.
 
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