Ask a Parelli student....no holds barred....you asked, I giveth.

[tongue~n~cheek]

Hi TnC. I would just like to say that although I'm 'only' the mum of a horsey daughter, I've followed this thread with interest. I think this has been extremely brave of you to be this open, and to give us all the chance to understand things from your side of the fence. Please keep up the what is undoubtedly good work, and not let anyone put you off.
Before anyone jumps on me, by good work I mean this thread....I'm not in a position to comment on the rights or wrongs of parelli.

Thank you. I have a question for YOU (everyone). One of the things we PARELLIANS often say (not my self) to others is, "you just dont understand" and that statement alone can set ones emotions aflame.

YET, now that this thing has evolved, I keep hearing, both here and in PM, thank you for helping me understand (not agree or convert)

while I agree, that it is obvious that it hasn't been explained, with out attitude of superiorness, in a way that anyone could understand, and that likely if you can't explain it well, it is not the other persons fault that they don't understand, it is yours for not explaining it well enough.

but is it a fair assesment, that maybe, just maybe, it helps if you understand?

this is a question for you to answer to yourself. My point is actually to any Parelli person listening, and hopefully recognise, the next time that statement is about to roll of thier tongue, that first they ask themselves.....
"did I explain myself well enough for someone to understand me"

and

to know that just because they dont agree, doesn't mean they dont understand.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

TiC, I think it's good that you train your horses your way, and how you want them. That's what I'm doing with my youngster (hopefully), but using other methods. There can be no right or wrong way, if it's done with total love and kindness, time and patience. And your own horse ends up how YOU want it to be. The bottom line is that if I ever did sell Shy (which I won't), the new owner would have to assess his schooling and see if it fits in with theirs ?

Tbh, from what I've read on this post, I think you may know a lot more than you - know - who. I hope that isn't an insult btw. sm x

thank you, and who cares if he's insulted!

I know I dont know more about parelli natural horsemanship than he, as it is HIS way, but I bet I know more about my way than HE does


HA HA HA HA HA HA

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

You, tongue~n~cheek, are a rare jewel. Your patience, good humor and tact are just amazing and I really think Pat and Linda should be searching you out and hiring you at top dollar to be their goodwill ambassador.

Hat's off. I know I for one would probably have cyber-garotted someone by now!

One would think, huh?

One onympic hopefull horse 200,000 pounds
One horse master in a hat $1,000,000

One heck of a spin doctor.......Priceless

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Thanks for your reply tongue in cheek.

Yes you are correct I expressed and interest in joining Parelli back in '01 as I did believe they had a good honest agenda of trying to improve levels of horsemanship helping horses and owners, I was told I needed to have been assessed to level 3.

So I got myself a level 3 pack and submitted this assessment to parelli in the USA which was passed.

I made the decided not to join them as there were financial commitments, restrictions, loyalty issues and other general politics that really put me off.

To sum it up I was told I had to adjust my attitude.

The quality of these new instructors is a huge worry, it does not take much bad press to give people an air of doubt for most when it comes to NH (parelli in particular).

I know the original program contained masses of information but now its spread out and watered down so students have to buy more packs and dvds to get anywhere close to as much info -levels, patterns success series,liberty & horse behavior, all this info was all contained in just the levels pack.

Its clear that now the only agenda parelli have now is making mega amounts of money by getting their brand spread as widely as possible by these lower quality instructors who can afford approx £10000 for a 4 week course followed by a 1 week classroom instructor course. (I don't mean any offence to people who have done this as they were led to believe having a parelli logo by their name actually has some significance in the equine world when in reality it counts for nothing).

I have learned and will continue to do so from talented classical and modern dressage teachers, show jumping teachers, vaquero horsemen and many more and never been sold over priced dvds or had second rate tuition.

Now parelli is nothing more than a money making machine misleading many individuals.

Rant over!! Thanks TnC for your interesting feedback on all the questions raised

WOW, can you imagine then what they would say to ME about MY attitude.
Good thing I dont want it, they would never let me in. I am witty, sarcastic, real, and question EVERY thing. which I feel keeps you honest. for one to proceed, unquestioned, opens the door for dishonesty, greed, and abuse of ones loyalty.

Ya! I wouldn't need to change my attitude, I would need a labotomy!

ROFLMAO!

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

When you think of the greats who left Parelli, don't forget Philip Nye, the man who trained Magic. (Whatever may be said now, Philip trained Magic, not Pat, and there is video evidence to prove that).
I think a lot of them left because they needed the freedom to teach in the way they wanted. The original Parelli instructors didn't work to such a strict set of rules, and completed the tasks their way, which they passed on to their students. These great horsemen and women couldn't fit into the more rigid guidelines set on how the programme was delivered. (Parelli needed to know their programme was being delivered the same way by all, and it wasn't you see).
Others left because of the financial strain of being an instructor, and the rather demanding schedules of training camps and meetings. But I guess most left for a combination of those reasons.

Ohhh I am going to seriously, strap you down, and torture you for info. You CLEARLY know more than you let on to know. I am a curious person, I want to know everything about everything.

while i can't recall ever hearing Pat take credit for training Magic, I certainly never heard him say he didn't. I think it is just an asumption that he did. and while I am not one to just believe anything that anyone says (remember I question everything) some how, I know we are very likeminded, you and I.

tea and dr pepper. some day......some day!

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

This is one of my favourite threads at the moment as I am learning a lot and we all seem to be pretty friendly (long may it last)

I felt very sad about some of TnC's comments. From her posts she is actually someone that if I was going to learn any Parelli from an instructor, she would be the type of instructor I would want it just saddens me so much that she has had bad experiences in the past posting online and that she could no longer teach dressage if she was a Parelli instructor. I have seen my Parelli friends do some really cool in hand work with their horses which to be honest I would love to learn - but not 100% Parelli style - I would want the instructor to adapt it to a more of a classical dressage slant. However, many of my friends horses ridden work is - well - to be blunt, awful. Any of my youngsters under saddle for a few weeks would be more responsive and light on the aids and have a greater understanding of them than many of these horses under saddle for years

So this is another question for T n C. Do you think Parelli is (a) more greared to inhand work and (b) trail riding in terms of the ridden work? Most of the Parelli horses I have seen ridden are plain unbalanced in a school. They cannot really canter one full 20m circle without breaking into trot etc. I understand not everyone wants to do dressage and most Parelli horses are ridden in a rope halter, but balance is balance. I also know perhaps the horses I have seen are unrepresentative of Parelli horses as a whole so it may be I have just been very unlucky.

I also want to say that I loved the video of the little girl and her pony That really embodies for me all that horsemanship should be. A trusting relationship with both parties (horse and rider) having fun

Thank you you guys are sooo sweet. honestly, with this thread, I have learned that I have not lost anything, by not becoming a parelli profesional. at the end of the day, I still have myself! if I ever do so choose to pursue it, I know the sacrifice I will have to make, and will gladly tow the line. when I make a promise, I keep it. but somehow I don't think they would want me! thier loss, not mine.

now, as for your question. yes of course thier claim to fame is the ground work, especially liberty. BUT what you are looking at when you see the dreadfull ridden work, is someone working on something different than what most are riding for. they are learning to perfect emotional balance. making the horse responsible for share of the work, and not being micro managed into listening and complying. the horse and rider are working toward bridleless riding. many dont want to go as far as actually taking the bridle off(not a requirement to take it off btw) but they are working toward riding withut using it. learning to use thier seat and body instead of thier hands and reins. once they can do that, they are now able to ride with reins and not abuse a horse in the mouth with bad hands, and also not nagging with the legs. I was riding this way back when doing dressage, pre parelli, and got quite good at it. I could canter 20m squares at canter using my seat. while it wasnt as balanced as when I had conection with the bit, i did perfect my seat, and was able to ride even better when I picked up the reins.

so when you watch your friends ride, as atrocious as it may seem, try looking at it for what they are trying to achieve, emotional responsibility from the horse and responding to body cues, and evaluate if they are getting what they are seeking. when you look at it from someone elses point of view, you can begin to see the beauty in it for THEM. ask them what level they are doing, and how they feel they stack up to the level they are learning, and you will likely not only blow thier mind, you might learn that they are not happy yet with thier level of performance, but are learning more everyday.

BTW, thank you for saying that you would like an instructor like me. tears in my eyes! truely. now i am going to tell my students that! all 4 of them!

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

I think it is perfectly natural (no pun intended) for people to want to go their separate ways, and who can blame any one, I too would want to one day have my own 'empire' and not be confined to only towing the rope. I don't know anything about any of the splits as I have not been a member for that long, but maybe it was the last straw that breaks the camels back, and a divide begins, who does not want to be their own master, were what happen is your choice, spreading your own wings not riding on the back of others.
I think it's whats called freedom.

dang woman, brilliantly said!

I feel like a mustang trying to be broken......it just can't be done. too free of a spirit

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

I agree pippinpie, I think they wanted freedom. Possibly not in order to have their own "empire", but just to be able to do things the way they wanted.
Hollycat, I hope TIC doesn't mind me chipping in re your post. As an ex Parelli student, this is how I see it anyway. In Parelli you work up your levels, when I was in it there were only 3 levels assessed, Level 1 was Partnership, Level 2 was Harmony and Level 3 was Finesse. The majority of students didn't ever complete Level 2 (which may be one reason why they have re-jigged the levels, to encourage people more). That wasn't because they weren't capable of completing Level 2, maybe they got what they wanted out of the system, or found a level that they were happy at. In fact, the highest percentage of students vanished after they passed Level 1.
Anyhow, the problem with this was that the horses weren't really asked for true collection until they reached the Finesse stage. You didn't put the bridle back on until Level 2, and then only when you had some "soft feel" when riding in your halter. Just as in conventional stuff, a lot of people confused "soft feel" with the shape of the head and neck, and didn't connect it with lifted withers, working from behind and all that stuff. And in any case, when you were riding using just a carrot stick for guidance, or "freestyle" with casual reins, you weren't concentrating on weight and balance, and your horse ended up dumped on the forehand. (I'm talking in past tense, but from what I have observed this is all still the case).
OK, so what happens if someone finds themselves perfectly happy somewhere into Level 2, proud to be riding in the halter, and to be able to ride with no bridle, and loving the free feeling they get from "freestyle"? And as a result, they decide they'll stick with that and just be a happy Parelli person hacking about and playing with their horse... Well, if they aren't aware of what is going on with their horse anatomically, and so do nothing to correct it, they end up with an unbalanced horse that works mostly on the forehand and, well you know how that looks. Does that sound familiar?
This is just how the programme works. The idea is to progress through the programme as quickly as possible, refining how you and your horse work as you go. (I believe Level 1 should take no more than 2 months? Most hang around there much longer than that). This is not the only way an "nh" style of trainer would work. I know of others that concentrate on balance and true soft feel from day 1. With or without a bit incidentally, because, contrary to what many believe, it is possible to have true collection without a bit. It just takes a bit of work, but then most stuff with horses takes a bit of work, doesn't it?

Yah THAT, that's what I said, right?? he he

but TP hasn't been answering all these questions either.

You are soooo gonna get a picking over!

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Ditto.
A lot of Parrelli people are worried about comming on the H&H forum because of the treatment they get.I tend to just post the odd sentance but I don't have the words, energy,or confidence to go further.
I don't know or care who you are I'm just pleased you can write better than I can

Thank you, again. speaking is not for every one. i can assure you after this, I feel for anyone who has thier everyword hovered over. it is not all it is cracked up to be. but in a sense, I am able to be free here. not have to worry about the purists feelings of me not havning enough faith in pat and linda. ptewy. i had faith, and got the **** kicked out of me for it. you go on and have your faith (talking to them BTW not you) one day you might have so much faith, you make a mistake and realize you are a fool for doing so, just like I did!

here I found real friends, that dont agree with what I do but see the beauty in it through my eyes. that is a greater compliment than blind admiration.

whoa fingers, slow down, easy boys, pat pat pat!

back on track, hopefully you can see wiht this thread, that you have friends you can talk to who may not agree with parelli, but at least will be nice to you if you talk about it.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

This has to be one of the most innteresting posts ive read on here,well done TIC and everyone who has contributed

Thank you, i think so too! that of course a joke, as I am new here and this is basically the only thread I have read. well the first 30 or so pages of the parelli bashing thread.

for you guys it is interesting, for me and a few others, it has been life changing!

 

[Bay_Beasty]

i am witty, sarcastic, real, and question every thing. Which i feel keeps you honest.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Wow, thats taken the whole night for me to read so I think ill throw my two cents worth in. First time i ever saw Parelli was at a demo in college and I have to say it brought tears to my eyes, i thought it was beautiful. Needless to say i instantly wanted to rush out and buy all the stuff and become a Parelli follower. Thank god for being a student as i couldnt afford all the kit.

I later realised that it wasnt for me and though I wouldnt say i follow any particular method i just do what works for me though i do rate Monty Roberts Kelly Marks etc. I started watching some american horse woman (cant remember her name )on rural tv (which has now been cancelled and I did learn some useful tips for my spooky loan horse which i have put into practice effectively, though i didnt agree with everything she did.

I prefer MR as i like the idea of the horse coming to you as a nice place to be as opposed to Parelli which appears to be alot of getting the horse to go away from you. (Sorry im very parelli uneducated and correct me if this is wrong). I think there are elements of most horse training techniques which can be used in some positive way and I will always take time to sit and watch something new and different to see if there is anything that I can learn and use in my own way.

Thanks TiC for taking the time to respond to everyone. After all the followers you seem to be getting on here maybe you should start your own training method and flog a load of dvds 'I cant believe its not Parelli'

(You may not get that if in the states you dont get a certain brand of non butter margarine thats difficult to believe)

P.S I couldnt watch the whole video in your sig, i couldnt get past the cowboys lassoing that poor horse with the broken legs but i have signed the petition (twice by accident woops!)

thank you. no parelli is not for everyone. and there are many great horseman/women around the planet.

yes the video is sickening, I have seen it dozens of times, and I cry and nearly puke everytime. I cannot even for one second imagine that poor horses pain of being forced to walk that far on two broken in half legs. then not even put out of its misery. made to suffer with other scared horses shoving it around, beaten to try to make it stand back up. two sigs better than one i guess.

 

[Bay_Beasty]

Thank you. I have a question for YOU (everyone). One of the things we PARELLIANS often say (not my self) to others is, "you just dont understand" and that statement alone can set ones emotions aflame.

YET, now that this thing has evolved, I keep hearing, both here and in PM, thank you for helping me understand (not agree or convert)

while I agree, that it is obvious that it hasn't been explained, with out attitude of superiorness, in a way that anyone could understand, and that likely if you can't explain it well, it is not the other persons fault that they don't understand, it is yours for not explaining it well enough.

but is it a fair assesment, that maybe, just maybe, it helps if you understand?

this is a question for you to answer to yourself. My point is actually to any Parelli person listening, and hopefully recognise, the next time that statement is about to roll of thier tongue, that first they ask themselves.....
"did I explain myself well enough for someone to understand me"

and

to know that just because they dont agree, doesn't mean they dont understand.

I know you know the answer already, but as I have said before, if Pat or Linda had your gift with the gab, was we say over here, your ease with words and your stedfast commitment to your cause, there would of been no need for this thread. But personally, for me, I am glad they don't.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Re what Pippinpie said about Freestyle... We may be refering to different levels 2+3. With the old levels only a handful of people ever made it to level 3 before they left (or became instuctors). The new level 3 demands a lot less.
As for teaching a trained horse Freestyle, I do wonder what the point is sometimes. I you've got a horse that works well now, why have it start to work heavy on the forehand at all? Take what you've got and make sure you've got proper balance, then allowing your horse to work low will be a matter of changing the position of your hands. But it still won't be heavy in the front. That's a much more difficult thing to find than "freestyle".
I'm sure this is why many people wonder why the Parelli horses are being allowed to stumble around areans unbalanced. If you take a horse that has relied on the rider to hold it up for years, then you take all that away, they flounder.

I agree, levels changes make a big difference. things are certainly, for lack of a better term, dumbed down to make it easier. while on the one hand, it makes those that worked so hard for their levels years ago, feel like these people are getting handed the levels on a silver plater, for those coming in, it is easier to understand, and in the end it is the same result by passing L4.

I too started with the green packs, got screwed just as I was about to auditin with new levels, got that almost done, and got screwed again. but now because of, not in spite of, I have nearly gotten to where I want to be, "officially" so woo hoo! it does make it easier now to progress thru, and also way more focus on the relationship than before.

so I am well versed in ALL three levels systems, and a better horse person for it.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

I know you know the answer already, but as I have said before, if Pat or Linda had your gift with the gab, was we say over here, your ease with words and your stedfast commitment to your cause, there would of been no need for this thread. But personally, for me, I am glad they don't.

I heart you!

mee tooo, we would have never met if pat and linda were adequate. we shall have to pay thanks to poor catwalk, as our new friendship is at his expense.

a moment of silence please

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

MUAH HA HA HA

he, someone else guessed who I am. that makes two who figured it out!

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I was a bit worried it was all about results at any cost and at hyperspeed. Thanks for putting it in context and explaining the difference between the "show" and the "programme"

glad I could shed some light on the matter. God knows no one else has talked about the difference between the show and the program. I think they should talk about it AT the "show"

still looking for the question about it taking so long!

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Like this idea!!


me too!


Why and how??

My performance horse had residuals from the race track, and she would twist her jaw. she also did it when stressed, like during feeding time, waiting for her turn to be fed. I had her vetted several times, dental work up the wazoo, expensive farriers, saddle fitters, special saddle pads, bits and so on.

I couldn't keep her mouth shut, so I tied it shut with a flash. it wasn't until i was somewhere in second level dressage, and truly understood my hands and seat, that her mouth quit doing it.....yet sadly, i couldnt untie her mouth due to FASHION in the dressage world. it wasn't THAT tight, but still. had I learned earllier that it was a reflection of MY inferior skills, i would have been able to use it to my advantage. to know that if she did it, she was either stressed or my hands were bothering her. a gaping mouth is a reflection of its rider. either direct pain from hands, or not taking the time to see what it causing it, (stress,teeth, saddle and so forth)

when I started riding her again after starting parelli I just took the caveson off all together. let the world see my failures, keeps you honest.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

IMO 4 phases is important - it's how you obtain lightness. By starting lighter than necessary and gradually increasing pressure until you get the result you want and then instantly quitting.....

YES! and like everyone else, you should do what works for and makes sense to you and your horse

 

[begentle]

Hi , thankyou for taking the time to answer these questions. Could I ask , can you point me in the direction of where I can find the scientific research that says that animals with brains can be defined with Left brain. right brain , introvert and extrovert please ? I am struggling to find it and is it just horses that have brains that work in this way ? Humans ? .

Thanks

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

I think it was both.........How many horses are really 'sorted out' using Pirelli? And is Pirelli a short-cut for those who have no horsemanship skills but want some sort of utopian answer for their horses? And how much money do 'professional' pirelli people make out of those poor people who can't cope with their horses, and hope that Pirelli is the panecea? And how many real horse people are still out there who can turn horses around - but can't possibly give them back to someone who does not have a clue? Tell me do the Pirelli experts ever have a faliure???

well not sure what you mean by "sorted out"

cant speak on the utpian thing, but parelli is definately one way for many with no horsemanship skills to learn them, and many have gone on to be quite successfull.

most people do quite well on thier own, such as myself. only one 2dy clinic in 10ys. and I am a level 4 student and played with as many as 150 horses using parelli with quite a bit of success. so I don't consider myself poor at all

dont traditional trainers train horses and hand them back to thier clueless owners? I have no details of those facts in parelli as i am quite isolated where I live. however I saw it all the time in the traditional world prior to moving to BFE!

failure? sure why not. no one is perfect. seen many more traditional trainers fail, even more hodge podge NH trainers fail, than I have ever seen in parelli. but those are just MY experiences, I don't know everyone.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Hi , thankyou for taking the time to answer these questions. Could I ask , can you point me in the direction of where I can find the scientific research that says that animals with brains can be defined with Left brain. right brain , introvert and extrovert please ? I am struggling to find it and is it just horses that have brains that work in this way ? Humans ? .

Thanks

I hope this is an honest question and not sarcasm.

there is alot of research on brain and behaviour. however it is more a model of behavior than brain activity. in parelli land, right brained is horses reacting out of fear, left brain is out of confidence. extrovert is outgoing, introvert is quiet and reserved. there are several models such as this regarding human behavior, which is what the parellis used as creative idea on how to make it fit for horses.

is there scientific research on this? i have no clue.

i do my own research. if the eveidence leads me to believe it is true, that is good enough for me.

the horsenality model has yet be proved wrong in my experiences and those of people i know and thier horses.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

I did it, I am done! I have answered all the questions. if i missed one, let me know. but honestly, I am pooped! my horses and family miss me. i have a couple things that I have typed up, that cover a few things that I did not go into detail about that might explain some other parelli things. however, i will try to post them tomorrow. it is after midnight, again!

I have one thing left to say at this time:

I don’t agree with what pat did with catwalk, truly I don’t. and maybe it is because ‘I” don’t understand, but who’s fault is that? No one has offered an honest explanation. So how can I?

Having said that, compared to what is going on with our beloved animals over here, it is nothing. NOTHING. I honestly want to see this brutal wild horse race abuse stopped. We have so many unfeeling uncaring people here as far as the horse is concerned. I promise you, if it was a dog in that video, this country would be up in arms. WHY is a dog more worthy of protection than a horse? I would love nothing more, than for this petition for the mustangs to wipe the floor with the petition against the parelli’s. It just makes no logical sense to me that people wont sign this thing, but will sign that thing, and say they it is because they wont tolerate abuse.

The originator of the petition, has honest intentions of carrying this thing all the way through to the bitter/sweet end. They are full aware of the great responsibility of the signatures they hold in their hand, and was very sad that no one is signing. VERY sad. I saw today that it was finally noticed all the new signatures from you guys. I so badly wanted to say…..’your welcome”. but they know not of this thread, or how much you all have helped to support it. I make all of you this solemn promise. If we get the 5000 needed signatures, I will reveal my identity to all of you, and let them know it was YOU who helped them fill those lines with names.

It will come at a cost to me, but I don’t care. What ever price I pay, will be nothing to the torture these magnificent animals endure, for the sole purpose of “entertainment”.

Maybe if you copy the links from my signature and add it to yours until we get the numbers, that would help. No requirement, just a suggestion for those that wish to help me.

I must say, I am no one special. Just an aging woman, doing the best I can for the horses that come my way.

There are a great many better horse people than I, and I respect and admire everyone that loves horses and does right by them, regardless of the method used.

I cannot thank you all enough for enriching my life they way you have, and for signing and forwarding the links for others to sign.

My word is good on me revealing my self with 5000 signatures. as long as no one blows up my personal life (blog website with bad things) i will be fine.

the view from the top of the mountain is wonderous, I think I will sit for a while and enjoy that which you have helped me to achieve.

thank you!

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

oh, i will get to the PM's tomorow. thank you
see you on the flip side!

 

[Tinypony]

Thanks TIC for all your time and effort. A great thread.

 

[actions-speak-louder]

First no I am not. not affiliated in any way other than that of being a student.

We all would love to know that, BTW. I suspect those close to them know the true reason. but I think they are otherwise tight lipped about it.

I have no idea if they chose to leave, were asked to leave, or it was mutual. I am sure each person has thier own reasons, when they do. Also know Pat is serious about instructors only teaching the program and what they are licenced to teach. for reasons I stated in an earlier post. he is guaranteing me that if I want parelli help,and I pay for one of his instructors, that parelli help is all i will get, at the level that they are quaified to teach. if anyone is doing otherwise, they can have thier cert yanked. I know of one in particular who did. but I also think that people are no different than chicks, some want to spread thier wings and fly on thier own wind.

"Parelli Help" - what is needed is all round horse help from experienced all rounded men and women. Mr PP himself must have gained his knowledge from others to arrive at his method. His stars also need this valuable experience and as previously posted we have what are called "CPD's" in the UK, and this Continued Professional Development is a crucial part of the learning process. For one to be so narrow minded and "say my way is the only way" is very controlling and dare I say again "cultish". To yank a stars certificate after all their hard work and dedication, let alone expense, because they have the desire to learn and improve themselves is very harsh, and also very egocentric of Mr PP for not wanting ones students to better themselves. One must acknowledge that and aspire to the fact that ones students will one day be better than their teacher. It is the sign of a true teacher who aspires to this. "Grasshopper"

There are other horseman / stars out there who have learnt from their PP experience, they have fledged, not wanting their wings clipped or controlled by one system, and great horsemen they are too, now gaining and being appreciated for their own style and methods. It appears that all those who show flair or don't toe the party line are outed, that's why the stars are tight lipped ... it's fear they are showing. A student is there to watch and learn, to be taught and to expand, and from this a teacher will also learn.


“To dismiss a body of knowledge just because you already have horse sense makes no sense.” previously posted - by Irishlife I think.

Horse sense is common sense and is also individual, one should allow the stars to attend other clinics and expand their experiences.

What a shame that Mr PP uses his silver tongue to control.

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

"Parelli Help" - what is needed is all round horse help from experienced all rounded men and women. Mr PP himself must have gained his knowledge from others to arrive at his method. His stars also need this valuable experience and as previously posted we have what are called "CPD's" in the UK, and this Continued Professional Development is a crucial part of the learning process. For one to be so narrow minded and "say my way is the only way" is very controlling and dare I say again "cultish". To yank a stars certificate after all their hard work and dedication, let alone expense, because they have the desire to learn and improve themselves is very harsh, and also very egocentric of Mr PP for not wanting ones students to better themselves. One must acknowledge that and aspire to the fact that ones students will one day be better than their teacher. It is the sign of a true teacher who aspires to this. "Grasshopper"

There are other horseman / stars out there who have learnt from their PP experience, they have fledged, not wanting their wings clipped or controlled by one system, and great horsemen they are too, now gaining and being appreciated for their own style and methods. It appears that all those who show flair or don't toe the party line are outed, that's why the stars are tight lipped ... it's fear they are showing. A student is there to watch and learn, to be taught and to expand, and from this a teacher will also learn.


“To dismiss a body of knowledge just because you already have horse sense makes no sense.” previously posted - by Irishlife I think.

Horse sense is common sense and is also individual, one should allow the stars to attend other clinics and expand their experiences.

What a shame that Mr PP uses his silver tongue to control.

Yes to all, as I said, I don't fit the mold, and never will, even if i lose the 50lbs i should

I do want to clarify, i dont think it was from "learning" from another, rather "teaching" another. to me it makes no difference either way, but in efforts of "explaining" parelli, i dont want to add to what others have done in the past which is speak about something as "fact" when i truley dont know the facts, and have it repeated as "fact."

the fact is, I do not know the facts!

but agree with you none the less!

 

[tongue~n~cheek]

Thanks TIC for all your time and effort. A great thread.

As soon as I get a good rest, some time with my family and horses, it's ON. I will meet you there, from the invite and we shall have great fun my friend!

 

[JanetGeorge]

Having said that, compared to what is going on with our beloved animals over here, it is nothing. NOTHING. I honestly want to see this brutal wild horse race abuse stopped. We have so many unfeeling uncaring people here as far as the horse is concerned. I promise you, if it was a dog in that video, this country would be up in arms. WHY is a dog more worthy of protection than a horse? I would love nothing more, than for this petition for the mustangs to wipe the floor with the petition against the parelli’s. It just makes no logical sense to me that people wont sign this thing, but will sign that thing, and say they it is because they wont tolerate abuse.

I watched the video right through - and wish I hadn't. I now feel sick and angry - and helpless! I've signed the petition - and I'll spread the link - but sadly it's not enough!

The only way to end this horrendous abuse will be legislation - and that would require a massive campaign in the USA (as well as international pressure) to target the politicians- from Obama down! And it also needs a campaign against the sponsors - particularly the big, international companies. Much as I hate the loony AR organisations like PETA and IFAW, this is something they do well! What are they doing about it??

 

[actions-speak-louder]

It would be nice TIC, if you were to continue with your free unconditional horse help on this forum, because despite everything you have a lot to give, but I feel you may have to keep your anonymity to achieve this. That maybe a big challenge for you.

So cheers and get some sleep.

Or maybe do a phoenix.