At what point do you accept that a horse just will not load

[Moonberry]

Too far for me to assist, will head scratch for you tho x

That’s really kind. Thank you x

 

[Moonberry]

This is when small ponies are so much easier-link arms with fellow human round said wretched animal and shove it in!

Isn’t it just!! I can get my 14.2 in no bother even if she’s being a diva! It’s all the boys fault for growing to 6ft so now I have to cope with 16.2 of stroppy thoroughbred!!

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

Eek 6ft, mine's smaller so we can get away with ponies (for now anyway!).

We're only on the edge of the forest, Wilts/Hants border so if you do fancy it PM me. ?

 

[Errin Paddywack]

We used to blindfold my sister's mare to get her home from shows. Blindfold on then walk her round for a bit before trying the ramp. It worked for her.

 

[Moonberry]

Eek 6ft, mine's smaller so we can get away with ponies (for now anyway!).

We're only on the edge of the forest, Wilts/Hants border so if you do fancy it PM me. ?

He’s 19 now so you have that to look forward to! Was much easier when they were pony sides. I will try and work out how to send you a message

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I’ve never been in favour of travelling horses back woods, however a few weeks ago I went with a friend to pick up a new horse, she had never been in a trailer, never been tied up but had been handled she was 3yrs old, we emptied the trailer of everything, when we got there we parke with a wall either side and she walked in within 20mins with little fuss, we took off headcollar and did the doors up completely she travelled silently, when we were ready to unload we expected an explosion out of the trailer, we didn’t front unload because of this. We slowly dropped the ramp inside her new paddock and she walked off very carefully, however she had travelled rear facing all the way home by her choice, so goes to show how wrong I was that’s how she chose to travel so I am now open minded as to how the horse will travel best. Barney has only travelled in a 7.5 lorry or bigger, I can’t afford to run a lorry now so I’ve never gone anywhere that I can’t hack too, he’s blind in one eye so very reluctant to travel in a trailer.

I think it's been proven quite a few times (perhaps mostly anecdotally) that horses do prefer hauling facing backwards. Often Often left "free" as you mentioned or in an open lorry, they choose to face backwards. I actually like that feature on the 3.5t.

 

[fiwen30]

I don't have the patience for nonsense. My dartmoor used to be bad to load to come home so I clipped a lunge line to each side of the trailer, lined them up with the ramp, walked him in between them to the bottom of the ramp where he would just stand still and refuse to move - unless someone walked right behind them then he would shoot backwards - as the lunge lines were at full length someone could pick up both ends being far enough away from him he didn't shoot back and gradually come closer forming a barricade either side. A couple of times I had to borrow help to cross the lines and squeeze them up his bum but after a couple of times he just looked at the lines being lifted then walked in.

I've also blind folded plenty at work for the 3.5t trucks with small ramps. I wouldn't do it on the HGV unless the ramp was on a loading bay and almost flat. Other days I have got the really hard spikey broom out of the truck and poked it, bristles up, under their tail. No horse likes to sit on a hedgehog!

Sorry probably not the nicey nicely way everyone should load a horse but I have the patience of a rabid dinosaur at times and have never spent more than 5mins loading a horse.

After the thread here where the poster had to have a broom handle removed from their thigh, I don’t think I’d be rushing to prod any horses up the arse again! Freak accident, but could’ve easily killed them.

 

[Rowreach]

After the thread here where the poster had to have a broom handle removed from their thigh, I don’t think I’d be rushing to prod any horses up the arse again! Freak accident, but could’ve easily killed them.

Quite.

And I'd rather rule out there being any physical reason for the bad travelling rather than resorting to forceful methods tbh.

 

[ycbm]

I think it's been proven quite a few times (perhaps mostly anecdotally) that horses do prefer hauling facing backwards. Often Often left "free" as you mentioned or in an open lorry, they choose to face backwards. I actually like that feature on the 3.5t.

There is research on stress levels. My recollection was backwards, herringbone, sideways in increasing levels of stress.
..

 

[windand rain]

Mine all without exception hate travelling backwards they fall about like drunks they travel perfectly front or sideways. We sold the trailer and bought a 7.5 ton lorry which is very roomy, It was designed for Shire horses so the ponies have loads of room to spread legs etc

 

[Spottyappy]

We had an NF mare who did this. Would self load at home, but not load when out.
we took her on a Kelly marks weekend, to crack it.
the crux was, to load her in a corner, and block her in on the third side, so the only way is up.
we used to take beach wind screens and blag help to hold the screens at the venue to load her. But, it worked.
the people we sold her to, we’re fully aware of the issue. They simply blindfold her, and on she goes.

 

[scats]

I know a lot of horses who walk on fine at home but kick off on the way home. OP, where are you based?
I had a bit of a problem with Diva a few years ago- not excessive but she would persistently take 20 minutes to get on and it was driving me mad. I got a bloke called Paddy Gracey out on a recommendation from a friend. Though she occasionally did the odd sticky thing after his visit, she never took longer then 2 minutes to get on after that.

 

[Red-1]

I used to do trailer loading, when I taught.

1. Ground work has to be good. True understanding of pressure/release by horse and handler. So it is relaxed and yielding (your horse not accepting a pressure halter leads me to think this first part is lacking).
2. Horse has to have the other skills/tools required, including being able to stand tied, alone, in a confined space of a strange stable, for a period of time, with a quiet mind.
3. mark out a mock trailer/box and practice the movements required (you can use cones, barrels, tarp, wooden sheeting).
4. Only then get the box involved and get loading.
5. Practice loading many times, but it is success that you have to practice.

6....

This one is the clincher. You have to have the horse happy to be on the box, to commit to the box mentally. Feeding in the box is one half, but the other is that being off the box isn't as nice. Not unpleasant, just not as nice.

My new cob was a notorious non loader. I would feed hay on the box, but then take off and allow water and a pee in the stable, but no hay, so 10 minutes eating hay on the trailer, 15 minutes no hay in the stable.

Or, eating hay in peace on the trailer and ground work when not on the box.

All done in a nice, calm and confident manner.

7....

Even more important, keeping the box a nice place where they are not overwhelmed. That means practice incrementally.

I did a load about Rigsby's training on my cob thread, from post no 693 through to post no 843.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...ntroduction-feed-advice-photos.795026/page-24

...............

What it shows is that yes, because I am used to loading reluctant loaders, although it did take almost 4 hours the day I bought him, it never took longer than 10 minutes once he had been mine for a while, even though he never so much as looked at a box in the mean time, because the ground work had been done. Yes, he would load first time after a his lesson loading. This is where a pro can get you to. But...

Look at the incremental practice we did after that!

I put the work in, over a 2 week period mainly, but then some too after, including daily loading.

The work was incremental. So, starting with a boxing in different areas of the premises, so loading wasn't situational. Then loading and driving half a mile and riding back. Many times. Then loading at home, riding half a mile and loading to come home.

Then loads more increments.

Loading isn't usually this protracted in a young horse, but once they have learned to say no, it takes more work to cement the new behaviour and prevent overwhelm. Usually, once they have been bad loaders, someone somewhere had beat them for it so the box has a bad vibe to them as soon as they see it. That needs changing, and that takes time.

I would do the short drive then go back to eating on the box and not when off the box, and load several more times. I would load until the horse would see the box and just get on.

Crucially, I would also let the horse exit the box when he wanted to at first. Sure, you want to come off the box? That's great, I would love that, we could do some ground work! Ground work is good! Let's do ground work! What? You want to get back on the box? OK, that's fine too. Let's get on the box and eat!

It is about losing your attachment to the horse getting on the box, as pressure to get on can shut the horse down the the idea of getting on, in an overwhelmed horse. I more, offer an OPPORTUNITY to get on the box (and eat). Not being on the box is OK too, after all, I do like ground work.

Obviously, to tach them how to navigate the box and earn the delights of being on there, some pressure release and obedience is necessary, but that is taught off the box.

I would also say to keep the son out of it, if half an hour led to lost temper. If the horse is struggling with pressure already a cross human will only make it worse.

 

[Moonberry]

I used to do trailer loading, when I taught.

1. Ground work has to be good. True understanding of pressure/release by horse and handler. So it is relaxed and yielding (your horse not accepting a pressure halter leads me to think this first part is lacking).
2. Horse has to have the other skills/tools required, including being able to stand tied, alone, in a confined space of a strange stable, for a period of time, with a quiet mind.
3. mark out a mock trailer/box and practice the movements required (you can use cones, barrels, tarp, wooden sheeting).
4. Only then get the box involved and get loading.
5. Practice loading many times, but it is success that you have to practice.

6....

This one is the clincher. You have to have the horse happy to be on the box, to commit to the box mentally. Feeding in the box is one half, but the other is that being off the box isn't as nice. Not unpleasant, just not as nice.

My new cob was a notorious non loader. I would feed hay on the box, but then take off and allow water and a pee in the stable, but no hay, so 10 minutes eating hay on the trailer, 15 minutes no hay in the stable.

Or, eating hay in peace on the trailer and ground work when not on the box.

All done in a nice, calm and confident manner.

7....

Even more important, keeping the box a nice place where they are not overwhelmed. That means practice incrementally.

I did a load about Rigsby's training on my cob thread, from post no 693 through to post no 843.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...ntroduction-feed-advice-photos.795026/page-24

...............

What it shows is that yes, because I am used to loading reluctant loaders, although it did take almost 4 hours the day I bought him, it never took longer than 10 minutes once he had been mine for a while, even though he never so much as looked at a box in the mean time, because the ground work had been done. Yes, he would load first time after a his lesson loading. This is where a pro can get you to. But...

Look at the incremental practice we did after that!

I put the work in, over a 2 week period mainly, but then some too after, including daily loading.

The work was incremental. So, starting with a boxing in different areas of the premises, so loading wasn't situational. Then loading and driving half a mile and riding back. Many times. Then loading at home, riding half a mile and loading to come home.

Then loads more increments.

Loading isn't usually this protracted in a young horse, but once they have learned to say no, it takes more work to cement the new behaviour and prevent overwhelm. Usually, once they have been bad loaders, someone somewhere had beat them for it so the box has a bad vibe to them as soon as they see it. That needs changing, and that takes time.

I would do the short drive then go back to eating on the box and not when off the box, and load several more times. I would load until the horse would see the box and just get on.

Crucially, I would also let the horse exit the box when he wanted to at first. Sure, you want to come off the box? That's great, I would love that, we could do some ground work! Ground work is good! Let's do ground work! What? You want to get back on the box? OK, that's fine too. Let's get on the box and eat!

It is about losing your attachment to the horse getting on the box, as pressure to get on can shut the horse down the the idea of getting on, in an overwhelmed horse. I more, offer an OPPORTUNITY to get on the box (and eat). Not being on the box is OK too, after all, I do like ground work.

Obviously, to tach them how to navigate the box and earn the delights of being on there, some pressure release and obedience is necessary, but that is taught off the box.

I would also say to keep the son out of it, if half an hour led to lost temper. If the horse is struggling with pressure already a cross human will only make it worse.

Thank you for the very comprehensive reply! The numbered points you have laid out are really useful. We do lots of groundwork with him, and he is fine in a pressure halter for these sessions, it only seems to be an issue when the box becomes involved. He will walk into narrow fenced areas, under tarps, we've used heras panels to try and mimic the box and he does all of this without even a hint of a problem. I think your point 2 is an interesting one, if I stabled him alone away from his herd at our yard he would find that hard and I'm not sure he would relax so maybe that is a gap. He has stabled calmly at venues other than our yard though.

I load him twice a day, pretty much every day, at home. I have now started loading him, then unloading, then loading again to feed on the box twice a day. I need to get brave and move on to the next step I think, rather than just repeating the same thing which seems well within his comfort zone now.

What is interesting, and I definitely should have included in my first post is that once he loads, even out when it has taken ages, he never tries to shoot off the box. I can leave him stood while I move round to do the partition and he just stands nicely. At home when he has finished his dinner he's never in a particular rush to get off and he just stands nice and chilled and eats some hay / hoovers left overs until someone comes and lets him out.

I feel a bit bad for calling my son out for aborting our effort the other night, neither of us were in the right frame of mind and we never should have started a session then so decided to abort rather than keep going. Not sure if that was the right choice but pretty sure we wouldn't have made anymore progress than we did. Most of the time (but not always) he will load better for my son than me. I will definitely say that there have been times, when we have both lost out temper with him! We try and run a bit of a tag team effort so that if one of us feels like we are getting cross we can hand over to the other and go for a walk away to calm before trying again.

I will have a read of your thread later today, sounds really interesting. Thanks again for the reply

 

[Birker2020]

I've also blind folded plenty at work for the 3.5t trucks with small ramps. I wouldn't do it on the HGV unless the ramp was on a loading bay and almost flat. Other days I have got the really hard spikey broom out of the truck and poked it, bristles up, under their tail. No horse likes to sit on a hedgehog!

Sorry probably not the nicey nicely way everyone should load a horse but I have the patience of a rabid dinosaur at times and have never spent more than 5mins loading a horse.

My friends youngster was sticky and we found that a sponge soaked in water and flicked at his bottom would send him up the ramp quickly enough. Got us out of more than one sticky situation loading to come home I can tell you.

 

[Annagain]

I think you've answered my question but I was going to ask what happens when he goes on at home - do you then rush to shut him in? My new boy was great to load when I first had him until someone, trying to be helpful, came along and tried to do the breaching bar up for me. They approached very quickly, took him by surprise, touched his bottom unexpectedly and he panicked. He obviously couldn't go forwards so he shot off backwards - luckily they managed to jump out of the way. Since then he's been worried about things closing behind him so anybody doing anything too quickly with him causes a problem. We started going halfway on and shooting off backwards, then made it all the way on before doing the same. All the normal things like swinging the partition over to give him more room made things worse because as soon as you started to move it back he'd panic again. Someone behind him could make him go on but he wouldn't stay there.

Working very quietly, we've now go him going on happily. The key is to not make him feel trapped in any way. I load him with a lunge line so that if he pulls back, I don't have to try to hang on to him as can't get away from me. If he pulls back, I allow him him to go and once he's stopped, ask him to come forward again. The less of a big deal I make it, the better he is. Once he's on we stand there for a few moments having something nice to eat and a little chat and then, with the lunge line still attached but him not tied up, I make my way to the back, talking to him the whole way, and put the breaching bar across. If at any moment, he wants to go backwards, he's allowed to. The second I react, he thinks he's been naughty, gets himself in a state and it all escalates from there. By giving him lots of time, he's getting better every time we go out. We sometimes have a little wait at the bottom of the ramp but it's never more than 2 minutes.

I'm just wondering if being shut in the first time makes him reluctant to put himself in that position where it can happen again?

 

[Kaylum]

Always load with a lunge line and we clicker train ours using a pedestal. Then do it with the box. Then take the box for a drive bring them back. Then do it again everyday. Then go 5 minutes up the road so if needs be we can lead them back. When you start to get stress, resistance and pressure you need to stop and go back to basics. They remember as soon as its stress related.

 

[Rowreach]

There's some great advice on this thread (and some not so great, if I'm being honest!) but for anyone having issues with loading and/or travelling, the very very first thing to consider is the physical health of the horse. So many travel related problems are a symptom of pain.

 

[Moonberry]

I can't believe this hadn't already occurred to me, but that's the benefit of writing it out I suppose! When I feed him on the box at home when he is happy and relaxed I shut the partition but don't close the ramp up. I think the only time I close the box fully is when I take him for a drive, maybe I've missed a stage in the middle which is for him to be happy stood on eating with the side ramp closed as well as the partition, I might test my theory this evening! Will standing with the box closed on the yard give me a different reaction to just partition or driving I wonder.

 

[Moonberry]

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