Backing 3/4yr olds

Amber is known at the vets for the weird but impressive way she lunges. She's willing enough that every handler has gotten her going nicely with just a couple of pointers from me.
YO can lunge her nicely for me on the rare occasions I need her worked, too.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Myka took to her first saddle experience with equanimity! I’d built her up with some preliminary steps soI didn’t think she’d find it stressful but she was even more relaxed than I could have hoped. Walked/trotted on both reins, changed direction, no drama.

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The 2nd time was a bit more dramatic! When her trot got bigger and she actually felt the saddle move. And with stirrups also added. Still pretty chilled though after a few bounces.
 
Dex will lunge beautifully from voice commands and my body language alone, including a change of direction, direct transisions, (his baby version of) collection and extension and a change of flexion - and I was inwardly thrilled when the vet said he was one of the best he had ever seen during a workup. However, I would never lunge as a form of work, I find it pointless and worry about his joints as he's such a big, young horse - I won't even when he's older to be honest, the benefit is not worth the risk to me.

That being said I have lunged for a few minutes max to look closely as his paces which I do every couple weeks or so just to make sure he's sound, usually on the way out to the field in passing. I also do work on the circle when I am doing groundwork with him as we aren't allowed to have them at liberty in our school in case they go mad and wreck the surface, but I am careful to be constantly changing the pace or flexion or impulsion within the pace so he's not actually doing circles on circles, it's super for inputting buttons and making connections between brain and legs before you get on!
 
Caol Ila said:
The downside to this:

My horses are taught, by me, to lunge in the way you describe, following a feel. They’re good at it, though I hardly do it these days because it’s tedious. Trouble is, it’s hard for other people to lunge them because they’re so sensitive to your body position and most people are oblivious, but if the feel isn’t there and the human’s body language is wrong, they just turn to face you. Whoops.
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I had that issue with the Appy when I was on holiday when on livery. Apparently she just stood and stared at them.

She can lunge perfectly well so I have no idea quite what they were or were not doing, but she also isn't one for giving anything more than you ask (politely). So if the girls just stood there and expected her to whizz around them madly she would have decided to save her energy and do nothing. You do have to up your energy when she's in that kind of mood and insist that she shifts her large backside - but she has a low boredom threshold so round and round and round is not to her liking.
 
I have seen too many people trying to teach a young horse to lunge for the first time ever by standing BHS style in the middle of a 20m circle with the horse out away from them on 10m of lunge line.

Person waves lunge whip to get horse to move, horse gets confused and stuck, or else p1sses off in a bother. It never ends well. Horse is then branded as being difficult to lunge 🙄.

Teaching lunging isn’t hard as long as it is built up in bite sized chunks. I reckon on a week’s worth of short sessions, starting with leading the horse in a large circle then me gradually moving further away from the horse, but I keep on walking in progressively smaller inner circles keeping pace with the horse. Lots of voice aids and praise.
 
@Ambers Echo I find the 2nd time can be more exciting for quite a few things with youngsters, definitely something to be aware of!

I think my boys will start with saddles over Christmas hols so I can do a few days and then rest. Mine always seem to learn more during the rest time than the actual sessions themselves

So saddles on for a bit over Christmas, then back out until the clocks change, when I'll remind them of long reining and tack and then start actually backing them over Easter.
 
Caol Ila said:
The downside to this:

My horses are taught, by me, to lunge in the way you describe, following a feel. They’re good at it, though I hardly do it these days because it’s tedious. Trouble is, it’s hard for other people to lunge them because they’re so sensitive to your body position and most people are oblivious, but if the feel isn’t there and the human’s body language is wrong, they just turn to face you. Whoops.
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This is what mine do. My friend can not lunge my babies for toffee - they just stand and look at her, which I find hilarious (and I think they do too). She finds it infuriating, so she doesn't do much work with them like that anymore.

My guys spend time 'working on the lunge' and in long reins learning to change direction and speed from either my voice or body language. I wouldn't call it 'lunging' but I do call it 'working on the lunge' as that is effectively what we are doing. We work on the lunge in either a resting field or the grass school/paddock using the whole area so I'm walking/running nearly as far as they are. It's the only way I can exercise my older horse at home as he isn't ridden. I think it's a fun way to exercise/play with them.

I struggled to get Reggie going at first so had the help of a NH guy. Reggie now moves out and way from me with me raising a hand, this is not driving but him associating my arm movement with a command, if I drop my arm he stops. It's still work in progress with him but the aim is to be able to play around in the field with him the same as I do the others.

I'm really not a fan of BHS type lunging and hate seeing little ponies in side reins being spun round on lunge lines before the rider gets on at shows.
 
Interesting thread! I agree there’s a big difference in how and why we ask horses to move around us in a circle. I think we should always ask why we’re doing it. And have a clear purpose. My old natural horsemanship/dressage trainer in the USA had a clear purpose for it and actually fell out with one of her mentors, Buck Brannaman, over this point. I think large circle work can be used mindfully. I use bigger circle work to make things easier physically (small circle work is harder especially for youngsters) and to help increase independence being further away from me, while still maintaining their mental focus. For example this week I’ve worked on establishing a few calm steps of canter on a larger circle without sky interpreting distance and energy meaning ‘yeeeha!’ It also gives me more space to be safe. But I want her mind and her feet while she’s out there. I’ve seen horses who completely learn how to bend the opposite way due to being in ‘shut down automaton’ lunge mode where they are mentally numb and wanting to just see what’s happening outside the circle so look and lean that way. And how this can change once they learn to respond to more subtle human cues around energy up and down.
 
Oh the drama of the 4yo in winter! Totally hysterical over the top spook today, at a walker and his Corgi. She leapt across the lane, INTO the coppice between it and the field, lost the child (to be fair the branches kind of removed the child on their own!), panicked a bit more (lots of crashing, plunging, rolling on the floor) then jumped into the field behind and stood quietly as if nothing had ever happened, one hoof in the reins.

No idea how stiff she will or won’t be tomorrow, but she was sound so we decided to carry on and try to run off the crazy. Took nearly an hour and a half to achieve that 🤦‍♀️.

I can honestly say that every day is a school day - I’ve never quite seen that before!

Hope you’ve all had nice weekends with your youngsters!
 
We had a ‘fun’ start to the week with two rather exciting hacks which I did not enjoy. Combination of a week off and windy weather (we’re on a moor, the wind is difficult to avoid)

Weather warmed up a bit and the wind calmed down and she was lovely over the weekend. Great lesson and a dreamy hack on my own yesterday where I got a glimpse of the chilled, solid pony that I’m trying to make her be. We even passed another horse out hacking and she was very sensible which was a pleasant surprise!

Ups and downs, ups and downs…
 
Fibones said:
if you are interested, here's the stages I've done with Sky: https://sites.google.com/view/equipartners-co-uk/building-a-horse
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Thank you, will have a read!

Moved my boy to a new place a few weeks ago. Large fields and a herd of 18 horses to run with. There's a 2yo in the herd which he formed instant friendship with and he's got someone close to his age to play with. Since the move he's been very chill, all the excess pent up energy is gone. He is very happy.

Training wise we haven't done much apart from beginnings of some liberty. I would take him for a walk once or twice a week. He has no issues leaving the herd. Ties up quietly even if no other horses are around.

Hoping to take him out and about this holiday period.

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Mine have both had another arena session each, this weekend.

Enormous ginger is working on increasing his comfort zone with slightly higher energy. If we're working in walk or I have him in close proximity, he is very relaxed and easy.
If we add some energy or power, or I ask him to work further away from me, his anxiety can come out so I'm gently pushing the boundaries a little.

Small Welsh is the opposite, a little ball of hustle and bustle, so working on s-l-o-w-i-n-g down his brain and his feet. So I'm doing closer work with him so I can help him slow and move one foot at a time and be in control of his balance and give himself thinking time

Love them both and I really love working with the babies. The progress is so fast through these stages!
 
Lovely to read everyone’s progress with their babies. I seem to have added another project to the one I already had.

I should start a ‘wonky donkey, in-hand, in therapy, unbacked 4yo and 5yo’ thread, for those like me who find themselves with delightful but dysfunctional young horses who aren’t sure if they plan on a ridden career.
 
Why would you lunge?

Well, this week I have been lunging to remind darling cheeky little 4yo that one is supposed to look in the direction of travel and not turn oneself into a strange approximation of a snake while trying to see what might be in the bushes behind the arena fence. Unfortunately her snake impression had been working rather well on her 12yo rider and we had it in walk, trot AND canter! I did think of this thread as I literally stood in the middle and let her twirl around me!!

Anyway…that’s now my schooling project for the next while (still fine out hacking).

Same rider is doing very well with the older mares who were also backed last summer - they’re not full of teenage angst though! Little 3yo is also doing well, we have decent basic arena work now and I’m thinking of turning her away again for January and February. No need to spoil the good work we have now by making it miserable.
 
Well we are about to graduate out of this thread though I have two who will be joining it next summer.

We finished our year off with winning two intro dressages and I am beyond proud.
I had such a confidence knock and truly questioned if I was the right person to produce this horse as she is a bit of a mardy mare who has her opinions. I set a deadline in February that by April I had to be riding and by September I needed to be enjoying her. My aims were hacking happily and riding her in w-t-c. Well we have done that, I’m getting much more confident with her silly side. We have done tonnes of hacking on very varied terrain, pub rides, popped a handful of fences and done a few intro tests.

Next year I hope to keep on this trajectory and do a tonne of RC activities to give her a varied education.
 
We are also about to graduate. This year we have learned to hack alone, have a good walk, trot and canter both on hacks and in the school. Have been to several pole clinics with other horses (and behaved!) and also one dressage clinic, which was fantastic and gave me a glimpse of what this next year may bring.
Planning to start competing next summer and continuing our hack adventures. He is a lot of fun to ride, spicy but curious and very brave!
 
Cant believe we are nearly ready to start posting on here again. i Last posted about Frank our last WB we bred. Hes in the same home we sold him to, a lovely young rider who seems to be having a blast with him.

This time its my first 2nd generation homebred. Shes 2/3 ID and the rest is TB with a smidge of WB. Shes a big lass, must be 16.3 ish and quite a chunk now. Shes officially 4 in April, so ready to crack on. So once this cold spell eases, shes off to be backed. We have a rider to do the riding away as well. Ive leant over her a few times when brushing her and she doesnt bat an eyelid, but thats it. Will be interesting to see whats she like under saddle.
A photo from November and from when she was a foal
 

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I’m curious to ask folks about their first rides out. At what point did you venture out of the arena post backing? And how did it go? Did you go solo or with another horse? Person on foot etc? I’m on board, taking it very slowly, baby steps of progress.
 
Fibones said:
I’m curious to ask folks about their first rides out. At what point did you venture out of the arena post backing? And how did it go? Did you go solo or with another horse? Person on foot etc? I’m on board, taking it very slowly, baby steps of progress.
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Last one I did, once she understood stop, go and move away from the leg (so we could navigate round cars etc) we started venturing out, probably was a only a couple of weeks or so in to the actual being on board stage but she was very chill about it all.

I did it in stages so I would get on in the school and then ride out after her session back to the stables. I then (different session) long-lined down the drive (quite a long one at that place) with her tacked up, hopped on at the end and rode back up for her first completely out of the arena ride. I had already long-lined her round our hacking routes and ridden and lead her from another horse too so the routes were known to her. I then enlisted a buddy to come with us for our first hack as a buffer and shield and off we went.

Edit: went back as I documented on this thread, from first sit to first hack was 2 weeks, but she was very good!
 
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Fibones said:
I’m curious to ask folks about their first rides out. At what point did you venture out of the arena post backing? And how did it go? Did you go solo or with another horse? Person on foot etc? I’m on board, taking it very slowly, baby steps of progress.
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I tend not to get on in the arena to start with.
Mine are done in the yard or on the track/driveway.
Before they head out into the big world, I like to have left/right/stop/jog installed. It can be wooly and slow but mainly I like them to really know I am on board, happy for my legs and reins to bang about a bit.

Mine all long rein a lot before getting on so I usually go out fairly early. If I have a good nanny and sensible rider on the yard, I'll go with a horse companion.
However mine are at home now so I'll likely use a foot soldier.

It also depends what your hacking is like. I'm in a little village with rabbit warren lanes so I can make up a million short circular routes and I know all cars around here will stop or pull in for me.
Same when we venture further afield, all lanes are single track so cars literally can't get past me so I can be more in control of passing speed and place.

If you're hacking is busy, I would be much happier if young horse had better transitions, knew more about the leg and contact and I would definitely want a nanny horse rather than a human.
A good nanny is excellent at pinning a youngster into a hedge or driveway while a bus or rattly trailer goes by!
 
Thanks. I’m a little ways off getting out and about. She’s been hand walked 50 plus miles so knows the local terrain. I’m setting her up to walk home the last quarter mile down the lane with me on board but I need a quiet day. She’ll pick me up from the wall. She’s great with cars but I mostly am looking for just an opportunity to walk in a straight line.
But I’m waiting till it feels right. She is very sensitive to each rein and light with steering with leg aids in the arena, has a great one rein stop but moving forward off both legs is not established as well as I’d like. Hence wondering if a lane walk towards home might be helpful. But I tend to really trust my gut on these ‘next steps’ and it still feels a bit too soon. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Fibones said:
I’m curious to ask folks about their first rides out. At what point did you venture out of the arena post backing? And how did it go? Did you go solo or with another horse? Person on foot etc? I’m on board, taking it very slowly, baby steps of progress.
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I long-reined the first time, actually two days in a row and then repeated the third day on board. Kept it short and sweet and chatted and sang to him like a madwoman
 
Well I just did it. She was calm and stood perfectly for mounting from a wall and we rode a very short 50m (heading towards home) along a quiet paved lane. Took a foot soldier who walked behind me as I want my mare to get her confidence from me up top. She was calm and straight and felt good. Short and sweet! We’ll see if this also helps her walk more confidently straight and forwards in the arena.
 

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Mine never gave a hoot about a quarter sheet.

I'm in a battle of sorts right now though. My 4 year old has become very reactive. It finally came to a head when I was pulling down my stirrup (getting ready to ride) and he did a big spook and ran right into me. He spooked at a noise he heard outside of the indoor. He's been very noise reactive, and generally dramatic.

By the end of our ride he was in a good place and no longer reacting. He became a snorty prancy mess when someone came into the arena with a wheelbarrow though.

It's very out of character for him. He's been on an ulcer treatment combo for a few weeks now, just incase, but I haven't noticed any changes off of that. Local vet doesn't have a scope, but we can travel further to get a scope, it's just that the roads have been treacherous.

I have a few ideas:

Remove all foodstuffs other than hay. He gets a balancer, vit-e, magnesium, and a gut supplement. There is alfalfa in all of those, I think. So I wondered if it's that?

Try to get him onto 24/7 turnout, but YO is not keen on it. They're in at night at the moment, in the summer they're out at night and for longer.

Do a workup with the vet and test for Lyme, EPM, and whatever else that relates to behavior changes (I'm in the USA). Could do a lameness exam, and x-rays of feet, back, and neck for the heck of it? He doesn't seem in pain when I handle him, ride him, or when I watch him move around. His movement actually looks quite good as does his posture.

I don't recall having a 3/4 year old this dramatic in winter, but maybe I blocked those memories out as a trauma response 🤣

I could turn him away, but he's a good doer and when he's not trying to go to the moon, he really seems to enjoy his work and interactions with me. So I like to keep him doing little things here and there. Anywhere with 24/7 turnout does not have riding facilities or access around here. It's most for broken, very young, or retired horses.

Not sure exactly which direction to go in.
 
I can't feed my youngest cob vitamin E without him turning into a spooky mess. If I know he's got a couple of days without ridden work I give him a scoop but never, ever before a riding day!
 
Asha said:
Cant believe we are nearly ready to start posting on here again. i Last posted about Frank our last WB we bred. Hes in the same home we sold him to, a lovely young rider who seems to be having a blast with him.

This time its my first 2nd generation homebred. Shes 2/3 ID and the rest is TB with a smidge of WB. Shes a big lass, must be 16.3 ish and quite a chunk now. Shes officially 4 in April, so ready to crack on. So once this cold spell eases, shes off to be backed. We have a rider to do the riding away as well. Ive leant over her a few times when brushing her and she doesnt bat an eyelid, but thats it. Will be interesting to see whats she like under saddle.
A photo from November and from when she was a foal
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This is exciting! She looks a lovely sort, I hope her backing goes well
 
CanteringCarrot said:
Mine never gave a hoot about a quarter sheet.

I'm in a battle of sorts right now though. My 4 year old has become very reactive. It finally came to a head when I was pulling down my stirrup (getting ready to ride) and he did a big spook and ran right into me. He spooked at a noise he heard outside of the indoor. He's been very noise reactive, and generally dramatic.

By the end of our ride he was in a good place and no longer reacting. He became a snorty prancy mess when someone came into the arena with a wheelbarrow though.

It's very out of character for him. He's been on an ulcer treatment combo for a few weeks now, just incase, but I haven't noticed any changes off of that. Local vet doesn't have a scope, but we can travel further to get a scope, it's just that the roads have been treacherous.

I have a few ideas:

Remove all foodstuffs other than hay. He gets a balancer, vit-e, magnesium, and a gut supplement. There is alfalfa in all of those, I think. So I wondered if it's that?

Try to get him onto 24/7 turnout, but YO is not keen on it. They're in at night at the moment, in the summer they're out at night and for longer.

Do a workup with the vet and test for Lyme, EPM, and whatever else that relates to behavior changes (I'm in the USA). Could do a lameness exam, and x-rays of feet, back, and neck for the heck of it? He doesn't seem in pain when I handle him, ride him, or when I watch him move around. His movement actually looks quite good as does his posture.

I don't recall having a 3/4 year old this dramatic in winter, but maybe I blocked those memories out as a trauma response 🤣

I could turn him away, but he's a good doer and when he's not trying to go to the moon, he really seems to enjoy his work and interactions with me. So I like to keep him doing little things here and there. Anywhere with 24/7 turnout does not have riding facilities or access around here. It's most for broken, very young, or retired horses.

Not sure exactly which direction to go in.
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I would be tempted to chuck him out for 6 weeks and then have another go, but I'm quite adverse to spending money when a break might just solve the problem, especially in winter!
 
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