Backing 3/4yr olds

[CanteringCarrot]

I can't feed my youngest cob vitamin E without him turning into a spooky mess. If I know he's got a couple of days without ridden work I give him a scoop but never, ever before a riding day!

That's interesting because I noticed a change around the time the vitamin e was added. I was thinking that it couldn't be that, but now I'm not so sure. I do think I will remove everything but hay and perhaps give him chaff or soaked Timothy hay pellets in a very small portion at feed time.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I would be tempted to chuck him out for 6 weeks and then have another go, but I'm quite adverse to spending money when a break might just solve the problem, especially in winter!

I've thought about it! If I can get YO to let me do that, I likely will. If not, I'd have to move him, and then move him back here when I want to start bringing him back into work. He will surely get fat though!

 

[Caol Ila]

I never advertised it on the forum because I was too afraid, but Hermosa went through a phase last winter where we did a lot of planting and running backwards in the arena and had a few minor rears, especially when we had to share it with other horses. i used to feel a bit queasy whenever someone else wandered into the school. I sorted some saddle issues (bought a new saddle! Expensive!) and otherwise just plodded on with it. Eventually, it got better on its own. I dunno... I think sometimes it's pain, tack, etc., and sometimes, youngsters are gonna youngster. The hard part is knowing the difference.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

The hard part is knowing the difference.

Exactly this.

 

[maya2008]

Mine never gave a hoot about a quarter sheet.

I'm in a battle of sorts right now though. My 4 year old has become very reactive. It finally came to a head when I was pulling down my stirrup (getting ready to ride) and he did a big spook and ran right into me. He spooked at a noise he heard outside of the indoor. He's been very noise reactive, and generally dramatic.

By the end of our ride he was in a good place and no longer reacting. He became a snorty prancy mess when someone came into the arena with a wheelbarrow though.

It's very out of character for him. He's been on an ulcer treatment combo for a few weeks now, just incase, but I haven't noticed any changes off of that. Local vet doesn't have a scope, but we can travel further to get a scope, it's just that the roads have been treacherous.

I have a few ideas:

Remove all foodstuffs other than hay. He gets a balancer, vit-e, magnesium, and a gut supplement. There is alfalfa in all of those, I think. So I wondered if it's that?

Try to get him onto 24/7 turnout, but YO is not keen on it. They're in at night at the moment, in the summer they're out at night and for longer.

Do a workup with the vet and test for Lyme, EPM, and whatever else that relates to behavior changes (I'm in the USA). Could do a lameness exam, and x-rays of feet, back, and neck for the heck of it? He doesn't seem in pain when I handle him, ride him, or when I watch him move around. His movement actually looks quite good as does his posture.

I don't recall having a 3/4 year old this dramatic in winter, but maybe I blocked those memories out as a trauma response

I could turn him away, but he's a good doer and when he's not trying to go to the moon, he really seems to enjoy his work and interactions with me. So I like to keep him doing little things here and there. Anywhere with 24/7 turnout does not have riding facilities or access around here. It's most for broken, very young, or retired horses.

Not sure exactly which direction to go in.

My 3yo had become so dramatic due to lack of adequate playtime/younger playmates that I turned her away until Spring. The older ones (incl 4yo if we’re going by actual birthdates) are spicy and speedy at the moment. I had the most exciting hack yesterday where my little cob seemingly couldn’t decide whether she just wanted to spook continually or canter - and son’s 4yo left a few times including spooking at a vehicle she wouldn’t normally mind. Winter is fun this year - maybe yours has an issue, but maybe it’s just winter.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Despite 24/7 turn out Myka is pretty explosive at the moment.

I’ve got a lesson with Joe on Tuesday and I can’t wait. Really need his guidance. After that I’ll just do what he says! I may just turn her away till she goes to him in April for backing.

 

[Hackback]

I'm feeling better reading this thread. I've entered a stressless dressage on Sunday. Last time it didn't go at all well as AJ got more and more wound up in the warmup each time a new horse came in. By the time we went in for the test he was an anxious mess and you wouldn't have known he actually can work nicely and really knows quite a bit of stuff. You would have thought someone had backed him by just throwing a saddle on and hoping for the best, which was embarrassing for me and not a good testimonial for Joe's training skills

Joe made me feel better by telling me that Remmy was like that in his first year out but in his second year he has changed and is a different horse. He also advised me to ride more, more frequently, more demandingly and 'ride' all the time i am riding. As he put it - 'You don't get a break'.

He also said to give him a good workout at home either the day before or the day of the comp, rather than wait until I get in the warmup, which is such a simple idea I don't know why I didn't think of it. Sadly weather and frozen ground has meant not much riding in the last fortnight, but today it's happening!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

This thread is helpful. Myka got scared by the saddle a couple of weeks ago and was then was in for a week because I was cut off by snow and YO understandably was not willing to walk the horses across ice to their fields and the in-at-night horses were in for a week. So that experience had plenty of time to soak in and she's been an anxious mess ever since about things on her back and around her girth. Still absoutely great on the ground if you avoid putting any tack on or touching her girth area so at least she's specifically anxious - not globally anxious! But still..... The thread is reassuring because I feel terrible about it (full details on the Myka thread) but I guess sh1t happen with horses. She clearly does not shrug off negative experiences particularly quickly but that's ok. We have all the time in the world. And I have taken her right back to step one - grooming all over, and getting her used to a rope round her belly/girth area, then a surcingle. She is now out 24/7 so the extended stable issue can't happen again. But she has mud fever so that's not ideal really either.... It;s not too nad so I'll keep an eye on it and hope for the best. It's an endless struggle balancing needs and prioritising.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

We had a good session last night. He started out rather reactive, but toward the end he wasn't, and was in a very good place mentally. He was also focusing well on me, and more of his intelligent and curious side came out, vs the reactive side.

I was going to ride a bit at the end of our ground session, but it went so well, and I just left it at that. I think I'll keep on keeping on with things on the ground and ride again midweek. We are entering a short cold snap where it's going to be very cold, so I'll ride when that's over!

It is rewarding to work with him through these things. It also occurred to me that while I've never taught him to react to sounds and things, I've never taught him not to react. He's fine with desensitization stuff, especially when I'm doing the thing (flapping a tarp, bouncing a ball off the wall, or whatever weird thing) but maybe I never really showed him that he can't be so reactive to other things? I dunno.

There's also a decent temperature difference between in the barn and in the indoor school. So going into that cold might add some pep to his step, and could be why he can start out snorty.

He's still going on a forage only diet for a bit. There's a possibility for 24/7 turnout later this week.

I couldn't fault him on our last solo hack. We hauled to a trail a few minutes away and he handled barking dogs lunging at him, people on bikes, runners, and whatever else quite well. I don't think he's in love with being in the indoor so much. It is nice and large, but with the ice everywhere, it's our only option at the moment! Fortunately the pastures haven't been too icey.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

This thread is helpful. Myka got scared by the saddle a couple of weeks ago and was then was in for a week because I was cut off by snow and YO understandably was not willing to walk the horses across ice to their fields and the in-at-night horses were in for a week. So that experience had plenty of time to soak in and she's been an anxious mess ever since about things on her back and around her girth. Still absoutely great on the ground if you avoid putting any tack on or touching her girth area so at least she's specifically anxious - not globally anxious! But still..... The thread is reassuring because I feel terrible about it (full details on the Myka thread) but I guess sh1t happen with horses. She clearly does not shrug off negative experiences particularly quickly but that's ok. We have all the time in the world. And I have taken her right back to step one - grooming all over, and getting her used to a rope round her belly/girth area, then a surcingle. She is now out 24/7 so the extended stable issue can't happen again. But she has mud fever so that's not ideal really either.... It;s not too nad so I'll keep an eye on it and hope for the best. It's an endless struggle balancing needs and prioritising.

How much zinc does she get in her diet? I say this because I often find that once I balance out the zinc (and copper) in a horses diet, they really don't get mud fever regardless of the conditions they're in. My last one required more zinc and copper than his feed provided. Might've been enough for some horses, but not him, for whatever reason. When I added more, he never had mud fever or skin funk again, even in the wet climate we lived in. Just an idea.

Current horse hasn't had it, and I chose a balancer with higher zinc/copper. I add more vitamin e too. I can't remember the last time it's been dry here due to all of the snow and mud.

It might just be coincidence, and topical stuff can work, but I really feel like zinc is a key player.

 

[Caol Ila]

It's always interesting how specific their fear can be. I have an orange construction hi-viz jacket that I got this year as my winter barn jacket, and there is a young horse (Hermosa's age: 6...owners have had him from 4) who is terrified of it. He is generally not a spooky horse. But if he sees me looking like a construction worker, he is a snorty, prancy, explosive mess. I was very nice yesterday, and when I realised I was going to be schooling Hermosa at the same time as his owner was riding, I borrowed OH's jacket. Would have been tricky if OH hadn't been at the barn that day. The school was quite busy, so I decided it wasn't that safe if the horse had a meltdown and rocketed into everyone.

Last week, the owner cajoled horse into approach me, and I gave him some treats. Didn't make a damn bit of difference. Someone wearing an orange construction jacket must have scared the daylights out of him. He isn't bothered by hi-viz yellow or any other colour.

Hermosa's thing is....drains. I should stop letting her watch Doctor Who because she swears Cybermen or something are going to crawl out of drains. There's one on the road we use to the park that she always bananas away from, so I have to make sure a car isn't passing us in the instant we go past aforesaid drain, and she's quite weird about some of the ones on the yard itself.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edited because I'll update at another time.

 

[Michen]

My 3.5 year old is busy being very cute at the moment. I’d done all the jumping around and leaning over I could possibly do and he was so relaxed with it all that (unplanned) I just hopped on him. Bareback, in a halter . The next day I did the same and rode him down to the pasture to get some forward momentum and it was so nice being up there and seeing his ear flick back as he listens to me clucking him along.

He’s just really nice to be around. I have no doubt there will be the usual baby horse drama to work through but for now these little moments are bringing lots of joy.

He’s leveled out fairly nicely again, I’m not going to properly start him under saddle for a few months yet but I’ll probably carry on hopping on occasionally for a bareback 5 min walk back to the pasture or whatnot.

I appreciate this isn’t the most conventional way to back a horse and it’s definitely not what I planned but my horse is happy and so am I.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

@Michen whatever works. I backed our shetland by plonking my 2 year old daughter on her when leading her in from the field every day for a few weeks. She did not appear to notice! I then added in the saddle and led her round like that for a bit. Then bitted her and hey-presto: Leid-rein-first-ridden.

I backed another horse much like you did. Had done all the leaning over. And one day just thought 'she'll be fine' and slipped on. And she was.

Mkya - yeh no. I won't be doing that. In fact I won't be doing it at all!

@CanteringCarrot today I brought her in this morning to spend a full day grooming, getting her ok again with the girth area being touched, putting on a surcingle over and over till she was bored etc. Left her a few times to chill then back for more. By the end of the day her legs were nice and dry so I could brush them properly - and bizarrely the mud fever has cleared up. It got worse the week she was in! And now is pretty much fine while out 24/7. Go figure. Something to do wiht immunity being better now she's less stressed???

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Oh that's interesting, AE. I think that stress can have interesting effects on the body, so I don't think that's out of the realm of possibilities. There are also "pathogens" that can live within the stall too, so something could get into the smallest opening of skin and fester a bit. Especially if the skin is softer than usual.

I also let my horses legs be more hairy than I'd prefer in the winter, and maybe that helps. Or so I tell myself!


I started mine in a rope halter, but I did have a saddle on him. He had a mildly alarmed look the first time, but as soon as he walked off, he was fine.

 

[Widgeon]

I don't recall having a 3/4 year old this dramatic in winter, but maybe I blocked those memories out as a trauma response

Isn't that what everyone does when they have a baby? Block out the trauma or you'd never do it again? Probably the same principle

It could just be the nasty weather and lack of turnout - in your shoes I would also be panicking but as a dispassionate bystander, I would definitely say don't worry (or spend £££) yet, just see whether he's better in the spring! I'm glad you've had a better session since then, hopefully it was just one of those days.

 

[Caol Ila]

Isn't that what everyone does when they have a baby? Block out the trauma or you'd never do it again? Probably the same principle

Haha. Yeah. It's the main reason why I was keen to sell my BOGOF, because I knew that when his mum hit 6/7 years old, you know, the age at which the fun-to-work ratio improves significantly, I'd be starting again with a 3/4 year old. While many people are into that, I reckoned I would be over it for some time, and I was. Had my mare been like 7 when she had him, I might have kept him.

She goes past drains, just bananas a bit and gives them the side-eye.

 

[cosmic389]

We managed a few outings in the past month. First our first solo walk in hand away from home, he was cool as cucumber. Then hit a shared track (cyclists, horse riders etc.) with a friend riding her horse. Picked a quiet Sunday and we encountered enough cyclists that he had pretty much no reaction as they pass by. The first time he saw a bike (a different time), he freaked out a bit, especially if they come silently from behind. Lastly we did an obstacle course in hand and I was very happy how he went. No issues with solid obstacles, pool noodles and flags, but not a fan of wobbly bridges or seesaw platforms. All in good time. Now he's enjoying a well deserved break.

He is also looking kinda lanky, reckon he's going through a growth spurt. Plenty of feed in the paddocks but have also added extra calories in his hard feed.
Some days he can also be a little pushy and impatient, so will spend some time working on that.

 

[Fibones]

We managed a few outings in the past month. First our first solo walk in hand away from home, he was cool as cucumber. Then hit a shared track (cyclists, horse riders etc.) with a friend riding her horse. Picked a quiet Sunday and we encountered enough cyclists that he had pretty much no reaction as they pass by. The first time he saw a bike (a different time), he freaked out a bit, especially if they come silently from behind. Lastly we did an obstacle course in hand and I was very happy how he went. No issues with solid obstacles, pool noodles and flags, but not a fan of wobbly bridges or seesaw platforms. All in good time. Now he's enjoying a well deserved break.

He is also looking kinda lanky, reckon he's going through a growth spurt. Plenty of feed in the paddocks but have also added extra calories in his hard feed.
Some days he can also be a little pushy and impatient, so will spend some time working on that.

View attachment 153574

We managed a few outings in the past month. First our first solo walk in hand away from home, he was cool as cucumber. Then hit a shared track (cyclists, horse riders etc.) with a friend riding her horse. Picked a quiet Sunday and we encountered enough cyclists that he had pretty much no reaction as they pass by. The first time he saw a bike (a different time), he freaked out a bit, especially if they come silently from behind. Lastly we did an obstacle course in hand and I was very happy how he went. No issues with solid obstacles, pool noodles and flags, but not a fan of wobbly bridges or seesaw platforms. All in good time. Now he's enjoying a well deserved break.

He is also looking kinda lanky, reckon he's going through a growth spurt. Plenty of feed in the paddocks but have also added extra calories in his hard feed.
Some days he can also be a little pushy and impatient, so will spend some time working on that.

View attachment 153574

Sounds like wonderful progress

 

[Fibones]

Quick question. Bitting. Interested to hear your thoughts. I got a bit fitted ( Hilary vernon snaffle with lozenge) but she’s fussy in it, and I just don’t like it! If she wears it I can just tell her focus is so distracted she just isn’t with me in the same way. Maybe if I persisted it would settle, but my gut says it’s just not right for her. She’s so light in the halter, I’ve been loaned a bosal hackamore so I’m starting to translate the groundwork into ridden in that (she’s much more settled in it) until I find the right bit. Very short sessions. I’d like her to go well both bitted and bitless. What are you using if anything?

 

[maya2008]

Quick question. Bitting. Interested to hear your thoughts. I got a bit fitted ( Hilary vernon snaffle with lozenge) but she’s fussy in it, and I just don’t like it! If she wears it I can just tell her focus is so distracted she just isn’t with me in the same way. Maybe if I persisted it would settle, but my gut says it’s just not right for her. She’s so light in the halter, I’ve been loaned a bosal hackamore so I’m starting to translate the groundwork into ridden in that (she’s much more settled in it) until I find the right bit. Very short sessions. I’d like her to go well both bitted and bitless. What are you using if anything?

Smallest one has a plastic equikind snaffle - more to do with rider than pony but it’s well liked by the pony.

Others have:
- Single jointed curved copper snaffle
- Eggbutt French link
- Loose ring French Link.

I start with a French link. If not liked, try curved single joint. Then one of the plastic snaffles for softness in the mouth. One of those usually works.

 

[SEL]

Quick question. Bitting. Interested to hear your thoughts. I got a bit fitted ( Hilary vernon snaffle with lozenge) but she’s fussy in it, and I just don’t like it! If she wears it I can just tell her focus is so distracted she just isn’t with me in the same way. Maybe if I persisted it would settle, but my gut says it’s just not right for her. She’s so light in the halter, I’ve been loaned a bosal hackamore so I’m starting to translate the groundwork into ridden in that (she’s much more settled in it) until I find the right bit. Very short sessions. I’d like her to go well both bitted and bitless. What are you using if anything?

NS turtle top worked for my fussy one and she stayed in it for years. I backed her bitless because every single bit she would fiddle with & get her tongue over. She has very little room in her mouth but settled in the NS bit immediately

 

[Caol Ila]

Quick question. Bitting. Interested to hear your thoughts. I got a bit fitted ( Hilary vernon snaffle with lozenge) but she’s fussy in it, and I just don’t like it! If she wears it I can just tell her focus is so distracted she just isn’t with me in the same way. Maybe if I persisted it would settle, but my gut says it’s just not right for her. She’s so light in the halter, I’ve been loaned a bosal hackamore so I’m starting to translate the groundwork into ridden in that (she’s much more settled in it) until I find the right bit. Very short sessions. I’d like her to go well both bitted and bitless. What are you using if anything?

The bosal, until I decide to try to graduate her to a two-rein.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I started mine in a rope halter, basically. It's a rope hackamore of sorts. I then introduced a Fager titanium single jointed fixed ring snaffle. My previous horse quite liked that bit, but my young horse seemed to want more to tongue relief. He's now happily going in a Myler fixed cheek (eggbutt) comfort level two bit. The roller part was a bit of a distraction for the first few times, but he settled with it and I think he likes the shape of it. I didn't want to go right to a Bomber happy tongue/solid mouth piece for a few reasons, so I think the Myler is a good happy medium.

 

[Asha]

Dropped Amara off to be backed today . Loaded and travelled well . Which considering she hasn’t been out for 2 years was in my book pretty good . Walked into the stable and tucked into hay straight away . Wasn’t phased at all . Just hope the rest of the process goes as well

 

[TheMule]

Dropped Amara off to be backed today . Loaded and travelled well . Which considering she hasn’t been out for 2 years was in my book pretty good . Walked into the stable and tucked into hay straight away . Wasn’t phased at all . Just hope the rest of the process goes as well

Looking forward to seeing her progress!

 

[TheMule]

Well, my two are going to be 3 this year so school starts at Easter time. The mule is a big character and will probably provide a lot of entertainment along the way. Enya is very exciting but we've just had a big disaster and she now only has 1 eye as a result so I'm not sure how it’s all going to go- all of my backing experience works very well for horses with 2 eyes! As her missing eye is on the right, I don’t think ride and lead is going to be very practical. I'm not sure she'll be able to hack at all tbh as most of my routes have quite busy sections of road. I hate starting them in the arena but she might have to be the exception.
Watch the full sob story here-

 

[Asha]

So sorry TM, I remember your posts when she was born . Just the most beautiful filly . With her lovely temperament I’d like to think she wont miss that eye . Wishing her a speedy recovery

 

[TheMule]

So sorry TM, I remember your posts when she was born . Just the most beautiful filly . With her lovely temperament I’d like to think she wont miss that eye . Wishing her a speedy recovery

Thank you- the biggest surprise in all of this has been just how sweet and easy she is- she loaded and travelled for the first time flawlessly, strolled into her first ever stable, made herself at home, charmed all of the grooms and just took all the treatment like an old pro. Her mother was a bit of a tricky character and the sire line is notorious for being a bit 'awkward' so not really what I was expecting! Hopefully that bodes well!

 

[ycbm]

Well, my two are going to be 3 this year so school starts at Easter time. The mule is a big character and will probably provide a lot of entertainment along the way. Enya is very exciting but we've just had a big disaster and she now only has 1 eye as a result so I'm not sure how it’s all going to go- all of my backing experience works very well for horses with 2 eyes! As her missing eye is on the right, I don’t think ride and lead is going to be very practical. I'm not sure she'll be able to hack at all tbh as most of my routes have quite busy sections of road. I hate starting them in the arena but she might have to be the exception.
Watch the full sob story here-

I really hope the other eye stays healthy for you TM.

I have been beaten at BE Novice by a one eyed horse. Watching him warmed up jumping a fixed fence at a 45 degree angle with his blind side to the fence was awesome. I hope you will have similar luck.
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