Backward/lazy warmblood.. at my wits end

[EquestrianFairy]

I’ve recently purchased a 11yo German warmblood to BS. She has a good record and a hell of a lot of scope and ability.. but she is so lazy it’s becoming very hard work.

Whip/spurs make no difference, I’ve tried feeding her up. Nothing.

I can hot her up on a fun ride (but it takes half the ride to do it)
Beach gallops.. will not gallop.. just canters.
Gallops.. we can get a gallop but it takes us needing a racehorse to lead! *hangs head*.

I’ve varied her work load, we play around XC, we go for hacks. She’s fit as a fiddle, she’s sound and happy. Saddle/teeth/back all done and fine.

Am I fighting a lost cause?

 

[Mule]

I’ve recently purchased a 11yo German warmblood to BS. She has a good record and a hell of a lot of scope and ability.. but she is so lazy it’s becoming very hard work.

Whip/spurs make no difference, I’ve tried feeding her up. Nothing.

I can hot her up on a fun ride (but it takes half the ride to do it)
Beach gallops.. will not gallop.. just canters.
Gallops.. we can get a gallop but it takes us needing a racehorse to lead! *hangs head*.

I’ve varied her work load, we play around XC, we go for hacks. She’s fit as a fiddle, she’s sound and happy. Saddle/teeth/back all done and fine.

Am I fighting a lost cause?

That's a strange one. Is there a chance she could have some condition that causes lethargy?

 

[AmyMay]

Have you run bloods?

Is she just sour??

 

[be positive]

You state what you have been doing but no mention of how she is going in the job you bought her for, is she not performing in the ring or is it that she is no fun the rest of the time, most people want a sane safe horse that will not hot up doing fun rides etc so it may be that if you want a hot ride she would be best moved on to someone who appreciates her and you find one that suits you better, if there is no physical reason for her calm nature she will be very much in demand if you put her up for sale.

 

[ihatework]

What is she like when you sj her. Happy and jumping well?

 

[southerncomfort]

To be honest she sounds like maybe she just isn't the right horse for you.

If she is naturally quite laid back, no amount of whips and spurs are going to change that. She sounds like a lovely horse and just the type I would like! But maybe just not forward enough for what you want.

 

[scats]

You state what you have been doing but no mention of how she is going in the job you bought her for, is she not performing in the ring or is it that she is no fun the rest of the time, most people want a sane safe horse that will not hot up doing fun rides etc so it may be that if you want a hot ride she would be best moved on to someone who appreciates her and you find one that suits you better, if there is no physical reason for her calm nature she will be very much in demand if you put her up for sale.

Totally agree with this. Perhaps this isn’t the horse for you.
I know a lot of people who would buy her in a heartbeat though!

 

[eahotson]

You state what you have been doing but no mention of how she is going in the job you bought her for, is she not performing in the ring or is it that she is no fun the rest of the time, most people want a sane safe horse that will not hot up doing fun rides etc so it may be that if you want a hot ride she would be best moved on to someone who appreciates her and you find one that suits you better, if there is no physical reason for her calm nature she will be very much in demand if you put her up for sale.

Agree absolutely there.To be honest she sounds ideal for a lot of us.Not for you though from the sound of it.

 

[SEL]

Have you run bloods to see if there is anything wrong?

 

[JFTDWS]

Depends really - she might just be laid back and disinclined to exert herself unnecessarily, or the OP might want the horse to be hot and silly, when that's not the horse's character. But an otherwise willing horse which blocks and ignores you when you try to move it forward would worry me that there is something underlying - a lack of fitness, a lack of confidence, energy, or some physical block on their movement (be that saddle, rider, injury or illness). I think it's worth ruling some of those out, and investigating options.

 

[Goldenstar]

To be honest she sounds like maybe she just isn't the right horse for you.
Ëee
If she is naturally quite laid back, no amount of whips and spurs are going to change that. She sounds like a lovely horse and just the type I would like! But maybe just not forward enough for what you want.

While you can never rule out that something wrong is taking the edge off a horse .
I think the same as above I like my horses forward and sharp a toolaid back horse drives me mad , as I age I am having to train myself to like laid back more it’s hard .

One thing you might try that’s worked for me.
First a question if you went on a standard everyday hack how often would you have to tell the horse to walk forward ?

 

[AmyMay]

How was she when you initially tried her?

 

[Ambers Echo]

I once spent 8 months trying to wake up a horse I was hoping to event. I tried EVERYTHING. From target training, to clicker, to waiting him out, to rewarding the slightest try to carrying 2 whips and spurs, to wip-wops. He drove me nuts but in the end I realised we were just not a good fit for each other and found him a new owner who adores his laid-backness.

 

[Bellalily]

http://www.calmhealthyhorses.com/solution/salt.html

Don't know if this is of any interest, but since doubling my two horses' intake, I have noticed a difference in them.

 

[Micky]

Sounds perfect for me..maybe get some bloods done to check all’s healthy inside before feeding up, you’ve done all the other obvious checks?

 

[Xanthoria]

Could it be EPSM / PSSM?

 

[blitznbobs]

Most warm bloods are backward and lazy - it’s what I love about them - if you want hot and fizzy buy a pre

 

[EquestrianFairy]

So when on a hack it takes a LOT of effort to make her trot on.. she will walk all day long but anything that means extra energy is a no no.

When in the ring she canters and jumps perfectly.. however, this takes a LOT of leg at times and can look messy because of it.

I’m having bloods done this week as it happens, my vet mentioned it.
She’s been on a iron sup anyway which didn’t help but I wanted to check her over.

I don’t want a hot and silly horse.. but one that will happily go for a gallop on the beach isn’t too much to expect surely?

 

[Mule]

So when on a hack it takes a LOT of effort to make her trot on.. she will walk all day long but anything that means extra energy is a no no.

When in the ring she canters and jumps perfectly.. however, this takes a LOT of leg at times and can look messy because of it.

I’m having bloods done this week as it happens, my vet mentioned it.
She’s been on a iron sup anyway which didn’t help but I wanted to check her over.

I don’t want a hot and silly horse.. but one that will happily go for a gallop on the beach isn’t too much to expect surely?

No it's not too much to ask. I like a sensible horse but backwards ones don't suit me. I'm naturally not a high energy person so me and a low energy horse make a bad combination.

 

[Goldenstar]

So when on a hack it takes a LOT of effort to make her trot on.. she will walk all day long but anything that means extra energy is a no no.

When in the ring she canters and jumps perfectly.. however, this takes a LOT of leg at times and can look messy because of it.

I’m having bloods done this week as it happens, my vet mentioned it.
She’s been on a iron sup anyway which didn’t help but I wanted to check her over.

I don’t want a hot and silly horse.. but one that will happily go for a gallop on the beach isn’t too much to expect surely?

This what I would do not conventional but it’s worked for me .
It’s not a quick fix but it’s never failed for me .
I pick say six of my easy hacks they need to be loops or lollipop hacks not out and back hacks
I carry two dressage whips .
The end aim is the horse will march and I mean march around the whole hack on long or loose reins without me ever having to use the whip for forwardness.
The only time I use the rein is when safety dictates I do .
So off you go on your hack in a mega marching walk the moment the horse drops Back it gets what for with both whips you might what to use a neck strap to stay off the rein but it’s essential you don’t use them and you don’t use the legs .
The message you carry me forwards I just sit here if you don’t ..... you get the dressage whip .
Now this not a quick fix it takes time but it’s the first stage in GS scale of training .
The horse carry’s me forwards at all times it’s reward a loose / long contact so if you havck out with energy and forwardness I leave you alone .
I don’t ever and I mean ever move on with training until every horse has it absolutely clear in its mind that it’s it job to carry the rider forwards on its own and I include in this older trained horse who have come from other people in fact my true babies never needed this .
I have a whole system based on this .the end of stage one is the horse Power marchs around all hacks while I sit there looking as pretty cool and calm as you can at my age
In my world the moment the rider feels they are doing as much or more than the horse to keep the job going it’s gone wrong and you need to sort the job out.

 

[claracanter]

I have a german WB which sounds a bit like yours. I had his bloods done and he has Cushings. Now on the right medication he is a lot better but never going to be fast, nor do I need him to be. He's a fantastic hunter though.

 

[JFTDWS]

I'd do as GS suggests (indeed, I've done something similar with a couple of my "laid back" types, and they're a lot more fun for it).

However, I would wait until the bloods are back, and I'd re-check all the other variables (is her saddle definitely ok *now*, double check her movement, re-assess her fitness critically, does she show signs of any complex issues e.g. a myopathy) first.

 

[rachk89]

After you've checked bloods, I'd do what others have said and do other checks.

However, maybe she just doesn't like hacks and finds them boring? Might be laid back too, but just finds hacks very boring and not interesting. Might only find jumping interesting.

Mine doesn't hack well as he thinks everything including trees will eat him. He's only OK ish if he has a mare to follow. But he'll school forever and never finds it boring. Other horses love hacking and detest schooling, to the point they won't move in an arena.

 

[LC2013]

I am in exactly the same position. I have a Belgium Warmblood which I love the bones of. He is 15 and i have owned him for 2 years. I bought him as a super safe (he is) allrounder. he has competed to decent level in most things (elementary BD & Discovery SJ),he was sold with him having a preference to dressage.
out hacking he can be a bit slow but he's 15.3hh with shot legs. I only ride with a 17.3hh so seems particularly slow in comparison. I'm happy with the speed I just irritate the other person cos we cant keep up.
Put him in an arena however and he comes alive. A dressage diva, happily jumping with enthusiasm. he just doesn't seem to enjoy hacking with huge horses!
I love him so he's stuck with me.
Do warmbloods really have a reputation for being lazy? that makes me feel a hello of a lot better if they do

 

[Goldenstar]

I have never had a lazy warm blood .

 

[SpringArising]

Ugh, I hate riding sluggish/lazy horses. My friend had a Native who was absolutely grim to ride, I couldn't stand to ride it for more than about ten minutes at a time.

 

[JFTDWS]

However, maybe she just doesn't like hacks and finds them boring? Might be laid back too, but just finds hacks very boring and not interesting. Might only find jumping interesting.

Other horses love hacking and detest schooling, to the point they won't move in an arena.

Being nervous and lacking confidence hacking is very different to being bored and refusing to remain mannerly either out hacking or in the school.

I don't actually care if mine are a bit bored by some aspects of their walk - if it's good for them to do it, they should do it, and not be sluggish and lazy. I can't imagine putting up with a horse that refused to move in the arena - it's entirely unnecessary, and very rude (assuming it's not a physical issue, which I think is often the case). I'm not suggesting a horse which is already school sour is a good choice of steed if you want to school 4-5x a week, but that it should be trained that fun stuff can happen in an arena, and that if it goes in there every now and then, it should remember its manners and do as it is asked!

That said, it's also my responsibility to vary their work load, and to make every task as interesting as possible (never drilling, always looking for new ways of mixing things up). Horses should never get the idea that arenas are boring, or that schooling is dull, because their work should always be varied, out hacking, doing "fun" arena work and making schooling itself interesting.

A horse that is nervous out hacking is a different problem to tackle, or avoid (solo hacking), as necessary.

 

[Woah]

Depends really - she might just be laid back and disinclined to exert herself unnecessarily, or the OP might want the horse to be hot and silly, when that's not the horse's character. But an otherwise willing horse which blocks and ignores you when you try to move it forward would worry me that there is something underlying - a lack of fitness, a lack of confidence, energy, or some physical block on their movement (be that saddle, rider, injury or illness). I think it's worth ruling some of those out, and investigating options.

THIS ^

 

[milliepops]

Have to agree with GS and JFTD on this.

My Hann is a laid back dozy dollop a lot of the time. But she's learning to sharpen up (in a good way!!) following something like GS's routine. It started with a lot of reminders with the whip. Now it's a lot easier and she can go for herself much more. She is 8, and since i bought her in November, pretty much untrained, we have been through a rodeo stage, then something ulcery and now just being a daydreamer I am a firm believer in the idea that you can change a horse's response to your aids. You can't change their nature so mine will always tend to be simultaneously idle and irrationally hyper reactive, but you can definitely teach them to respond the way you want.

My welsh was as backward and nappy as they come, she is now much much more forward thinking and taking me around PSG tests without *too much* from me, and that's just 4 years of unrelenting responsiveness training.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I have two legs, two arms & a pair of running shoes but there is no way I'm going to be a Usain Bolt. It's the same with horses, some are sharp, quick & on many occasions a real handful, some people like them like that. Others are 'steady eddies' & they look after you and go at their own pace, some people prefer these. We have a horse that has a magnificent jump but he's never going to be the fastest horse in the arena. Fortunately he can turn on a sixpence & jump of nothing so what he lacks in speed he makes up for in suppleness £ his turning ability so he is normally in the rosettes.

You can rarely turn a horse from one extreme to another. You may need to reconsider your position with your horse & is he the right one for you. Good Luck.