Badminton Grass Roots

Star, I can understand why you feel the need to defend yourself but, in my opinion (for what that is worth ;)) you have no reason to do so. You were as prepared as anyone - likely more so - and have done well at the level above your class. What more can anyone ask? I think, in your case, the circumstances were very much not in your favor that day. Perhaps there are things you can do to narrow those margins a bit but that was not to be expected and you did all you and your connections - who are hardly without top class knowledge - could think of. As, I'm sure, did most of the 4* riders.

People seem to forget there is an element of luck in eventing. It is true that the harder you work, the luckier you get. But you work as hard as you can and do all you can do to narrow those margins, not eliminate them. Anyone who pretends it's not a potentially dangerous sport is delusional. And some of that danger comes because you can do everything right and still have it go wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm probably what many people on here would consider an over preparer. I believe you should do EVERYTHING you can to educate and prepare. But I've been in horses a loooong time and I would be kidding myself if I thought I had so much control I could make it all about me, all the time.

So don't listen to the people who imply you didn't do your best. It may me that, on the day, that wasn't exactly what was needed but it's also possible it just wasn't your day. Live and learn. What do they say, it's not how you fall it's how you pick yourself back up. Onward and upward. :)
 
TarrSteps said:
Star, I can understand why you feel the need to defend yourself but, in my opinion (for what that is worth ;)) you have no reason to do so. You were as prepared as anyone - likely more so - and have done well at the level above your class. What more can anyone ask? I think, in your case, the circumstances were very much not in your favor that day. Perhaps there are things you can do to narrow those margins a bit but that was not to be expected and you did all you and your connections - who are hardly without top class knowledge - could think of. As, I'm sure, did most of the 4* riders.

People seem to forget there is an element of luck in eventing. It is true that the harder you work, the luckier you get. But you work as hard as you can and do all you can do to narrow those margins, not eliminate them. Anyone who pretends it's not a potentially dangerous sport is delusional. And some of that danger comes because you can do everything right and still have it go wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm probably what many people on here would consider an over preparer. I believe you should do EVERYTHING you can to educate and prepare. But I've been in horses a loooong time and I would be kidding myself if I thought I had so much control I could make it all about me, all the time.

So don't listen to the people who imply you didn't do your best. It may me that, on the day, that wasn't exactly what was needed but it's also possible it just wasn't your day. Live and learn. What do they say, it's not how you fall it's how you pick yourself back up. Onward and upward. :)
Click to expand...

Brilliantly put.

Star, I've really enjoyed reading your reports and blogs in the run-up and you have achieved amazing things with Monty. It's such a shame that circumstances meant you couldn't show your top form on the xc but you will both bounce back and be even better for the experience. I'd love to read a full report (with pics) when you feel up to it as you're quite an inspiration!
 
Well done Star - sorry it didn't go to plan for you on the day, but regular HHOers should all be aware of how much work and preparation you put in. The atmosphere at Badminton must be totally different from anything the majority of grassroots riders have ever experienced, so a very difficult thing to prepare for. Obviously you now have to qualify again and go back next year when I am sure your experience this year will really help you achieve your aims!

As for regional finals versus the championships, I presume the regionals are run over standard BE90/100 courses that are also being used for the normal BE90/100 classes at the same event - is that the case? Whereas the Badminton course is built specifically to be a championship course which is designed to really test the competitors.
 
Slightly sad to come on here and read this. I completely agree with Star - some of the questions asked in the course were questions that our 90 horses have never seen before and you would be hard pressed to replicate out schooling or at home. I have under good authority that Chris Bartle described the course as "jumpable apart from fence 8 which was a 4* question at 90cms". Billy caught me out there, and I am sure that he was a bit overwhelmed by the volume of people watching which took his eye off the ball a little as he is not at all ditchy.

Having said that, I don't think it should be softened - it meant that the winners were worthy ones and it was a really fantastic experience, and I am so proud to have got Billy round and for him to have grown and grown in confidence. He finished full of running and taking strides out so I really think he will come out a better horse from it, and hopefully we can go back next year and have a better result..

But for all the arm chair riders - trust me, we are beating ourselves up enough and wondering what else we could have done so please refrain from making us feel even worse!!
 
lex2501 said:
Slightly sad to come on here and read this. I completely agree with Star - some of the questions asked in the course were questions that our 90 horses have never seen before and you would be hard pressed to replicate out schooling or at home. I have under good authority that Chris Bartle described the course as "jumpable apart from fence 8 which was a 4* question at 90cms". Billy caught me out there, and I am sure that he was a bit overwhelmed by the volume of people watching which took his eye off the ball a little as he is not at all ditchy.

Having said that, I don't think it should be softened - it meant that the winners were worthy ones and it was a really fantastic experience, and I am so proud to have got Billy round and for him to have grown and grown in confidence. He finished full of running and taking strides out so I really think he will come out a better horse from it, and hopefully we can go back next year and have a better result..

But for all the arm chair riders - trust me, we are beating ourselves up enough and wondering what else we could have done so please refrain from making us feel even worse!!
Click to expand...

Sometimes it just does not go one's way on the day.

I remember going to the PN Champs that preceded the invention of the Grassroots scheme. I was 13 and it was my first ever season eventing.

We drove all the way down from Scotland to Warwickshire and I got lost in the SJ and was eliminated :D. An early lesson that in eventing you have to take the lows with the highs!
 
lex2501 said:
But for all the arm chair riders - trust me, we are beating ourselves up enough and wondering what else we could have done so please refrain from making us feel even worse!!
Click to expand...

I wouldn't take it too personally - the 4* riders are also getting criticism for being under-prepared in the other Badminton thread, so you are in very good company!
 
Love Chris Bartle's comment! I do think it seemed a very tricky combination, especially coming from the table (?) and even more so with crowds there. Like someone said - where do you prepare for that? I've never seen a coffin like that elsewhere. Not that it shouldn't be used, but it is going to be an enormous test.

Well done Star and Lex....not the XC round you might have been looking for but a wonderful experience and one you've both worked incredibly hard for. Hope Monty and Billy are both recovering nicely at home!
 
I am another one delighted that the Championships - both Grassroots and 4* - were a true three phase test. That does not mean that I am suggesting inany way that most participants - again at both levels - were not properly prepared. I think it would be a mistake to get too hung up on a few off the cuff comments by commentators: they don't really set themselves up to be experts and it is easy to make a quick remark off the top of your head which ends up immortalised, examined and analysed on the internet when it really doesn't deserve such weight ;)

There is no question that there are factors at Badminton which you can't prepare for - the crowds, for a start, and some horses may be thrown. All you can do is ride positively, let them learn from the experience, and if you have a hiccup hope that ypu will be back next year and they will be a little less fazed. Again, very similar to what riders on first time 4* horses will be doing - look at Tom McK and Diesel.

As far as weather and timings etc are concerned, some of those factors are out of our control, some are more manageable: I'm sure Star will have a contingency plan in place for next year to deal with a similar set of circumstances (we had a pony who was similar, star, and it was a nightmare at Weston CCIP one year in a very similar situation to yours; after he very nearly ditched the jockey I took him right away, almost back to the stables, and we used a runner to tell me when to bring him back).

I hope and believe they will try to keep the course at this level of difficulty, and that as riders and coaches learn what to expect, preparations will become slightly different, a larger proportion will cope amd the stas will become less alarming. But in the end as TS says, sometimes it is just not your day, and there aren't many people rushing to suggest that WFP, AN and Toddy weren't properly prepared!

Well done to all the HHOers, hope you had a thoroughly enjoyable experience anyway, and huge congratulations to the prize winners :)
 
I think everyone who was there had done incredibly well to get there.

The coffin caused many issues - its not a fence you often find on courses these days (and quite often portables are used - which are solid and roll tops) so for a lot of horses nad riders this would be their first experience of it (unless they have been eventing for 15+ years - in which case they will have come across them previously!). A few came to it in a steady canter, not a coffin canter (so horse was steady but not really on its hind legs and in front of the riders leg - a couple were steadied back so much they were almost in a 4 beat canter) - however its very rare to find a question like that where a true coffin canter is required until you get to novice and quite often not then. Also these are grass roots riders on novice horses, they are not meant to have years of experience and the ability to produce a coffin canter at will - and whilst you might have the theory, if you haven't had the opportunity at competition to put it into practise, you aren't going to have the experience.

Looking at the final results it seems the course caused the right number of problems that it wasnt' a dressage test (rather like the main Badminton). It was a championship course, the coffin wasn't a new fence this year, but it can be hard to prepare for - although the winner of the 90 hasn't competed BE at over 100, and hasn't competed 100 since 2010 so they were a true grass roots rider, and whilst the horse has competed at BE novice (not since 2005) its never gone clear at BE Novice.

Looking at the figures, 29% were eliminated/retired on xc this year at BE90, the same as for the 2013 class (22% for the 2012 class, 16% in 2011) which would sound about right for a championships (and a lot lower % than at the 4*!)

Its a championship, its meant to be a test. This year the weather didn't help and the ground was a bit sapping, but those who were in the top 10 deserved to be there and I hope all those who didn't finish the xc will come back with experience and know how to improve and resolve the issues (and hopefully will make them better riders and better equipped for the step up the levels)

Just to be there is an achievement and not one that many will experience, to complete a huge achievement - take full credit Lex2501 and Star and I am sure you will both be there again (and fully equipped to tackle any coffin!)
 
Well done Star and Lex, huge congrats on getting round Badminton, what an achievement! The tone of your posts really saddens me - YOU GOT ROUND BADMINTON!!!!!!! You should be so proud of yourselves and your lovely horses.

I wish you both all the luck in the world for next year, anyone that has followed your reports in the run up knows just how much you put into it.
 
Out of interest and light hearted point! There used to be a full coffin on the borde hill Xc in the late 90s. As you leave the lorry park towards the dressage there is a narrow path, look right.... It used to be located there! :-)
 
It saddens me too to read that those who have fought so hard to get there are now having to defend themselves. A mighty great big pat for Lex and Star (and all the competitors) who qualified. Just to qualify is a mahoosive achievement, then to keep the horse sound over the long winter months, get out early with all the preparation you can, spending alot of money and time preparing for the big champs and getting the horse fit is a massive battle. You should be so proud of yourselves for making it to begin with.


I so hope this hasn't put a damper on your overall experience of Badders, you really did brilliantly and I raise my glass to you (well cup of tea as its morning just now ;) ) I would love it if I could join you there next year, the experience sounds amazing.


oh and hurry up with your report, I keep checking on here for it to appear and I'm really looking forward to reading it :D
 
The problems in the 4* certainly put the Grassroots in a new light (though possibly the ground was a bit better for them).

Well done to Star and Lex, you both did very well to get there at all and the problems on the day weren't always within your control.
 
montanna said:
Well done Star and Lex, huge congrats on getting round Badminton, what an achievement! The tone of your posts really saddens me - YOU GOT ROUND BADMINTON!!!!!!! You should be so proud of yourselves and your lovely horses.

I wish you both all the luck in the world for next year, anyone that has followed your reports in the run up knows just how much you put into it.
Click to expand...

Don't panic - I could not be prouder of Billy! We put our problem behind us and he jumped the most superb round :) And I finished Badminton on a smiley horse full of running!

I will do a report as soon as I find the time, but here is my hatcam video which I am confident shows that we made a pretty good job of it and were in fact prepared and within our comfort zone. Yes we had a mistake, but believe me I will learn from it and we will come back all the better for it!! :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wIfFDYS-g8&list=UU85SJhsT-VgXLQ7hcgQ8LKg
 
Leaping said:
I think everyone who was there had done incredibly well to get there.

The coffin caused many issues - its not a fence you often find on courses these days (and quite often portables are used - which are solid and roll tops) so for a lot of horses nad riders this would be their first experience of it (unless they have been eventing for 15+ years - in which case they will have come across them previously!). A few came to it in a steady canter, not a coffin canter (so horse was steady but not really on its hind legs and in front of the riders leg - a couple were steadied back so much they were almost in a 4 beat canter) - however its very rare to find a question like that where a true coffin canter is required until you get to novice and quite often not then. Also these are grass roots riders on novice horses, they are not meant to have years of experience and the ability to produce a coffin canter at will - and whilst you might have the theory, if you haven't had the opportunity at competition to put it into practise, you aren't going to have the experience.

Looking at the final results it seems the course caused the right number of problems that it wasnt' a dressage test (rather like the main Badminton). It was a championship course, the coffin wasn't a new fence this year, but it can be hard to prepare for - although the winner of the 90 hasn't competed BE at over 100, and hasn't competed 100 since 2010 so they were a true grass roots rider, and whilst the horse has competed at BE novice (not since 2005) its never gone clear at BE Novice.

Looking at the figures, 29% were eliminated/retired on xc this year at BE90, the same as for the 2013 class (22% for the 2012 class, 16% in 2011) which would sound about right for a championships (and a lot lower % than at the 4*!)

Its a championship, its meant to be a test. This year the weather didn't help and the ground was a bit sapping, but those who were in the top 10 deserved to be there and I hope all those who didn't finish the xc will come back with experience and know how to improve and resolve the issues (and hopefully will make them better riders and better equipped for the step up the levels)

Just to be there is an achievement and not one that many will experience, to complete a huge achievement - take full credit Lex2501 and Star and I am sure you will both be there again (and fully equipped to tackle any coffin!)
Click to expand...

Excellent post! Couldn't agree more :)
 
lucemoose said:
Star I am really looking forward to your report, and slightly saddened that you have had to come on here defensively when you have made the massive achievement of qualifying in the first place!
Click to expand...

Star, totally agree with the above comments , I think you have done brilliantly to get to the Champs and am sure you will get another shot next year. I take my hat off to all of you that qualified it takes guts and hard work :-)
 
ArcticFox said:
love the hat cam Lex.

he has a massive bridle path!! love the ears pricked :D
Click to expand...

He was a bit cheeky when I had the clippers on him to cut it one year and I can't bear to grow it out as I can't stand the spikes!! Saves me one plaits worth of plaiting time ;)

I think he enjoyed himself :)
 
Sometime the luck goes with you sometimes it's does not .
You need luck and preparation for a championship competition
It think it's very sad that some of those who had a bad day have felt the need to defend their performance .
Everyone who qualified did well to get there lots and lots never qualified .
 
That hat cam footage is wonderful, thanks for posting it. You looked super around the rest of the course. You could also see how deep and spooky that ditch in the coffin was, not surprised it shocked horses that hadn't come across them didn't like it. I think it was just one of those things, it happens to us all. You shouldn't feel bad about it. A lot of us on here know how much you and Star have put into getting to Badminton, feel proud (and tell us all about it!!)
 
Honey08 said:
That hat cam footage is wonderful, thanks for posting it. You looked super around the rest of the course. You could also see how deep and spooky that ditch in the coffin was, not surprised it shocked horses that hadn't come across them didn't like it. I think it was just one of those things, it happens to us all. You shouldn't feel bad about it. A lot of us on here know how much you and Star have put into getting to Badminton, feel proud (and tell us all about it!!)
Click to expand...

Thank you so much :) As soon as my Total Recall video has arrived I will post the report!!
 
Another looking forward to reports - in awe of those who get there, love the hatcam! :biggrin3:

As an aside as people riding have got defensive, given the thread which is a total shame, it was apparently the commentator who originally said it, not the armchair critics of HHO...
 
Last edited:
lex2501 said:
Slightly sad to come on here and read this.

But for all the arm chair riders - trust me, we are beating ourselves up enough and wondering what else we could have done so please refrain from making us feel even worse!!
Click to expand...

I think it was the commentator who said people weren't prepared for the XC, not anyone on here! I don't think ANYONE in here agreed with that (in a critical way) or said anything that would have made you feel worse! It's been such a positive post. Everyone's been saying "how could people prepare for something like this"?

We were all rooting for you both - I was refreshing bdwp like mad all day and cried out "oh no!!!!!" In my office when I saw you'd both had problems. Gutted for you. But still incredibly awed that you even got there.
 
The hatcam footage was fantastic. What a great job you did having a horse get round full of running despite the obvious heavy footing. And he obviously loved it, his ears pricked the whole way, what a lovely honest boy you have. I agree the coffin was horrible- there are a lot of coffin complex fences on courses in Ireland, most hunter trials I've been round have them but none have such a narrow fence in that I can recall. Why do the courses over here not have them out of interest?
 
elliefiz said:
The hatcam footage was fantastic. What a great job you did having a horse get round full of running despite the obvious heavy footing. And he obviously loved it, his ears pricked the whole way, what a lovely honest boy you have. I agree the coffin was horrible- there are a lot of coffin complex fences on courses in Ireland, most hunter trials I've been round have them but none have such a narrow fence in that I can recall. Why do the courses over here not have them out of interest?
Click to expand...

:) This has just made me smile a lot! Thank you so much :) He is fan-blimmin-tastic! He gave me such a great ride - so proud of him!!

We have seen the odd coffin at BE90 and BE100 but they tend to be either just rail to ditch, or ditch to rail. You barely get all 3 elements together, and they are nearly always on flat ground, with more than 1 stride between and a smallish ditch. So I think the combination of the 1 stride distance, big spooky ditch and undulations made it a bit overwhelming for him and he just needed a bit of time to work the question out. Interestingly it reminds me of the concepts Eric Smiley was talking about the IEF when training young horses - he talked at length about how you should introduce "surprises" to the young horses so that they get used to reacting quickly and working out problems for themselves. Definitely food for thought!!
 
BeckyD said:
I think it was the commentator who said people weren't prepared for the XC, not anyone on here! I don't think ANYONE in here agreed with that (in a critical way) or said anything that would have made you feel worse! It's been such a positive post. Everyone's been saying "how could people prepare for something like this"?

We were all rooting for you both - I was refreshing bdwp like mad all day and cried out "oh no!!!!!" In my office when I saw you'd both had problems. Gutted for you. But still incredibly awed that you even got there.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^
This Alexis. You KNOW I adore you and Billy and bow before you and Nicola for making it there in the first place. I am proud to know you both and as I have said to you many times YOU COMPLETED BADMINTON...how many people can say that :P
 
star said:
Thanks for all the well wishes and excitement when you guys thought we'd done well. I will do a proper report when I've finished nursing my bruises and licking my wounds. Monty did a cracking dressage for 27.8, then despite hardly being able to warmup for SJ due to him massively spooking at the tent nearly taking off and 4 people holding down the archway into the ring he jumped an awesome clear.

We then did the long walk down to the XC warmup to find they were running half hour behind, not really long enough to go back to the lorry so I walked him round and round and round as the course got held again and again. Half an hour turned into an hour, the wind was blowing a gale and Monty turned into a raving lunatic. I generally avoid spending much time in the XC warmup for good reason. He was bucking, rearing, spinning, launching, you name it. When I tried to jump he galloped at them ignoring me and then skewed over them. He hates wind and he hates waiting around. He isn't very good with things around the course and will generally spook at anything other than his jumps so there was an awful lot for him to look at and I struggled to keep his attention on me. We jumped the first 7 fences well then I got him back into a coffin canter, rode forwards for a lovely stride and instead of taking off he whipped round and threw me off before disappearing. I got back on, he refused again and we got through on the 3rd attempt with him leaving a leg and it wasn't pretty.

I don't know how anyone could say I hadn't prepared for it as much as possible. I took him XC schooling and jumped Novice technicality and height, I competed at three 100's this year and was placed in all of them but I'd never asked him to do an old fashioned rail-ditch-rail coffin with a crowd next to it because where on earth would I find one of those? I've never seen a coffin like that at BE100, only Novice and not on any local schooling venue, plus I was doing the 90 Champs so surely shouldn't have to go Novice to prepare? He's never been ditchy or had a problem with any coffin I've jumped so far so I wasn't prepared for him to throw the towel in with quite such force. I do think maybe things might have been different in different weather without the hold in the warmup but we'll never know. I got back on and completed and am determined to try and go back next year and do a better job. I know someone broke their arm badly at the coffin and I know people will just think I'm biased but I think that fence was a test too far - it wiped out a large percentage of competitors and hurt some of them too. I'm all for the accuracy questions - all the skinnies and tough lines inviting runouts where you get 20pens for making a mistake but I think a full coffin with upright rails in a 90 when you don't get that at any other competitions at that level is a bit much. I agree that they need to make the Regionals stiffer. Why is it ok to be a dressage competition at the Regionals and then make the jumping so much tougher at the champs? I say make the jumping tougher at the Regionals so you make sure you get combinations going through who are capable of jumping the Championship track without getting injured.

And I disagree with anyone who thinks a horse competing at Elementary pure dressage cant be a grassroots eventer. I have worked hard on Monty's dressage and he has won at Elementary BD and will come out at Medium this year but I had zero experience of eventing before getting him and no way are we capable of doing more than BE100 (and clearly not capable of BE90 Champs either) so pretty sure we are just what they mean when they say Grassroots at eventing.
Click to expand...

Star - anyone who read your reports and blogs would know that you prepared as best you could with 4* eventers. As I said to Alexis - you guys COMPLETED BADMINTON. That is an amazing achievement and I know that both of you are beating yourselves up but please don't. I watched your video of the coffin last night, I didn't see it coming at all. Please, please don't let others comments distract you from such an amazing achievement. :)
 
almostthere said:
^^^^^^
This Alexis. You KNOW I adore you and Billy and bow before you and Nicola for making it there in the first place. I am proud to know you both and as I have said to you many times YOU COMPLETED BADMINTON...how many people can say that :P
Click to expand...

Sorry guys - perhaps a little over sensitive and defensive! Mike Tucker was commentating when I went round and anything he says I always take with a pinch of salt anyway ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top