Bakers

katielou said:
Neither can I. But then he doesn't eat steak.

It is much cheaper for the farmer to give me bags of waste than it is for him to pay to have them taken away.

Not all dog food is bad but most of it I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
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I can not believe you do not feed Abe fillet every day- very true in your situation- only here said farmer does not have any waste himself.
 
I've been told this thread can't be stickied as it stands, (possibly something to do with the brand names being bandied about;)) so I'm going to start a new thread about ingredients to avoid and recommended dog foods.

It would be fabulous if you could all contribute to the new thread so we have an easy guide for people wishing to know more or people new to dog ownership. :)

Could someone perhaps add dry food to the new thread that they have used and can recommend? I feed raw and am quote prejudiced towards it, but I wouldn't dismiss some dry food: not all of it is awful.
 
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BoolavogueDC said:
You misread my point, I'm debating - at no point did I say my stance on it... :)

No I don't think the meat in JWB is ethically treated - BUT one thing I can say is price doesn't motivate what I feed my dogs. I wonder would the raw brigade still feed it with such gusto - should they have to pay through the nose for it?

For those that wouldn't you have to ask is the real motivator price or welfare?
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The welfare of my dogs is paramount. I don't really care what it costs: my only dependents are my pets. I confess I don't feed them free range except eggs (can't bear to buy battery :() but I don't worry about how much it costs if I want to get them nice food. I do like that I can feed them cheaply and I like a good bargain, who doesn't? However, if I ever switch back to kibble, it would only be the best and IMO, that would probably be Orijen or an equivalent. Stuff the cost!
 
Alec Swan said:
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, so this may have been covered, but whilst you're at it, you can contact those vet's surgeries who promote and sell the monstrously high protein, and dangerous puppy feeds.

OK, so vets aren't dieticians, generally, but surely they can see the results of a protein content, often at 30%+, and the growth problems which are all so often presented to them. Perhaps it's a case of win-win, for them.

My own local surgery have finally taken Hills from their shelves. It took some time to explain that "balanced" was what the food wasn't, despite the claims on the packaging.

Alec.

ps, a good thread, c-t.
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Trouble is Alec they make out they are bloody dieticians! And the gullible believe everything that drops from their lips!I mean,obviously a breeder who has bred and reared champions with long lives for forty years cannot possibly know as much as him,having had a couple of lectures by Pedigree .And of course he has LETTERS after his name..so he must know more..well actually not.
I now issue a little text to my puppy owners warning them about their first vet visit..I.E. you wil be subject to an attempt at selling dried "balanced" puppy food,you will be offered flea spot ons,this puppy does not have fleas,you will be asked to book in for neutering.,plus the vet will endeavour to find a reason for you to return said puppy for some "genetic defect"...usually the perfectly normal overshot jaw that a bull terrier should have at 10--12 weeks old.
Rant over,from a very pissed off breeder!:D
 
EAST KENT said:
Trouble is Alec they make out they are bloody dieticians! And the gullible believe everything that drops from their lips!I mean,obviously a breeder who has bred and reared champions with long lives for forty years cannot possibly know as much as him,having had a couple of lectures by Pedigree .And of course he has LETTERS after his name..so he must know more..well actually not.
I now issue a little text to my puppy owners warning them about their first vet visit..I.E. you wil be subject to an attempt at selling dried "balanced" puppy food,you will be offered flea spot ons,this puppy does not have fleas,you will be asked to book in for neutering.,plus the vet will endeavour to find a reason for you to return said puppy for some "genetic defect"...usually the perfectly normal overshot jaw that a bull terrier should have at 10--12 weeks old.
Rant over,from a very pissed off breeder!:D
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:D such a good post.

We have had this so many times with the spaniels, ''oh, well i must say, this hip feels a little tight... (yeah yeah) or that i need to invest in £300 pounds worth of ear syringing and drops, specialist shampoos for skin conditions ( i TOLD you, she isnt I'll, just really really dirty, she does have a job you know!)
Eye drops and salves for a million random things that *could* go wrong with them because *sometimes* it does.

I hate the implication that i dont care about my dog because i wont spend £20 quid on a tiny bottle of crap to clear out the scum in my dogs ear, a tissue will and does suffice.

ANd the FLEAS. omg how many times does that come up.. yet rarely do they pressure you into wormer or bother to educate you in the different types.

Im so happy we have our vet, who just wants to get the job done and regale you with a story about in the old days. :D
 
martlin said:
ermmm, I just wanted to say, I pay less than £15 for my Skinners :o:)
This time of year my dogs feed themselves, mainly on rabbit, but as we all know, cos Stephen fry has told us, if you eat only rabbit you will die... so I still fill their bowls with Skinners Maintenance Field & Trial.
As to RAW, I'll be very honest here - I just couldn't be bothered, really. Also, all this talk about cheap meat... How come we want to be ethical about what meat WE eat, but it is allright for our dogs to eat meat that has been battery/mass produced?
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See, I was going to ask this very thing...how can I scour the shelves for ethically produced meat for us (often coming home empty-handed) and happily chuck bags, trays and packs of cheaply-sourced meat and bones from Lord only knows where, for my dog?

I have looked at free-range chicken thighs and drumsticks but can't bring myself buy them, as where do I go to from there?

Anyone???
 
ThePinkPony said:
''oh, well i must say, this hip feels a little tight...
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Vet scanning my dog's bladder a couple of years ago told me his hips were bad and he would probably be crippled by five, after lots of prodding and poking and rotating of legs.
Had I been a more gullible or less aware owner (OMG he is a GSD so therefore he MUST have HD..) I would have believed her, however a partner at the same practise did a digital x-ray and said he had some of the best hips he had seen, having taken x-rays for scoring over many years.
He just did not like getting poked and prodded by a silly woman....same one I heard charging a guy £500 for an op and then telling him the bitch would go lame again because ALL GSDs get HD eventually.

And girl at local practise said pup had 'a lot of movement' in his cruciates - HE WAS SIX MONTHS OLD!!! and an unusual gait. No, that's how GSDs move, it's long and low, baby!

I do love my proper vet, who (BACK ON TOPIC!!!) was threatened by legal action by a firm selling a food with a name not unlike a small mountain, because he discouraged a client from feeding it.
 
Pissed off breeder back again! Anyways..what`s all this "balance" stuff? Do wolves balance their grub? No ,whatever is going is the name of the game,how many crippled with rickets wolf cubs do you see? Packed with worms ,yes,but that`s another theory of mine..
Like KL mine are on basic prey diet,a mix of whole chook frames,meaty bones,head meat/tripe mix and raw eggs a couple of times a week.Sometimes,if they look like they need a bit of body a handful or two of Laughing Dog biscuit is added,or sometimes the ghastly dried..it will be a cheapie/working dog one (no VAT),as said don`t rate any of them.The only odd one out there is Fish4Dogs,and if it were cheaper probably I would use more of it.
The only two exceptions amongst my lot is Deliah..who is twelve and prefers her pick `n mix bowl of dried to add to whatever meat she is offered in the evening.At twelve she`s allowed;then of course little Miss Lucy,again a biccy mix plus ,at the moment,Tesco`s best beef mince..hand fed..but she`s allowed anything,being special.
Amounts? Well the Mali gets three chook frames,a bullie oneand a mini bulie half a frame. How much trouble is it,if stuck for time ,to go `round with my bucket of lovely fresh chooks and give them out at bedtime? How satisfying for them and me to hear the happy crunching/munching noises as we shut down at around 10 pm.
Sometimes my weekly butcher collection has big bags of steak trimmings in it..oh then it`s Christmas! My dogs look great,have lovely oil in their coats and being ill is a rareity.Vets bills mostly relate to whelping and vaccinations on puppies.Oh! And the myriad health checks breeding dogs should have..and mine do.
 
Wow, a lot to catch up on. Just a couple of things I have noticed in skim reading this thread :
Martlin, the Skinners F & T Maintenance is a lot cheaper than the hypoallergenic varieties, it is £14.99 at my suppliers. However it does contain contain wheat, maize , barley etc. I think a lot of people who are quoting Skinners F & T on here are referring to the Duck & Rice, Lamb & Rice etc which is gluten free.
I agree vets aren't nutritionalists, nutrition is only a small part of their learning and as EK I think some breeders of long standing quite probably have as much knowledge. In my daughters first year at Vet Uni a certain dog food manufacturer gave the students so many freebies it was unbelievable. I still have a couple of bright red slip leads, a lap top bag and insulated drink holders that she passed on to me. This imho is done to get certain brand names into the students heads so when they are in practice the same companies can then persuade them to promote their feed.
 
Which reminds me..quite a few years ago I used to get lower legs of cows out of the abbatoir skip ,when collecting the tripes each week,..anyway, the Council Kennel Inspector looked and asked "Whatever is THAT" ..."It`s your predecessor" said I. Don`t think they are ever quite sure how serious I am being!:D:D
 
MurphysMinder said:
Wow, a lot to catch up on. Just a couple of things I have noticed in skim reading this thread :
Martlin, the Skinners F & T Maintenance is a lot cheaper than the hypoallergenic varieties, it is £14.99 at my suppliers. However it does contain contain wheat, maize , barley etc. I think a lot of people who are quoting Skinners F & T on here are referring to the Duck & Rice, Lamb & Rice etc which is gluten free.
I agree vets aren't nutritionalists, nutrition is only a small part of their learning and as EK I think some breeders of long standing quite probably have as much knowledge. In my daughters first year at Vet Uni a certain dog food manufacturer gave the students so many freebies it was unbelievable. I still have a couple of bright red slip leads, a lap top bag and insulated drink holders that she passed on to me. This imho is done to get certain brand names into the students heads so when they are in practice the same companies can then persuade them to promote their feed.
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They flew us to florida :D
 
Cavecanem (or anyone else whose is large dogs)....

how much do you think is costs to feed your dog RAW (week or month I don't mind! ;) )
and what is it you feed for that cost?

Harley weighs 30kgs so how much would he need to be fed?

I don't have much freezer space (3 drawers) so can't buy in bulk. I really would like to feed RAW, just don't know if logistically I can.
 
galaxy23 said:
Cavecanem (or anyone else whose is large dogs)....

how much do you think is costs to feed your dog RAW (week or month I don't mind! ;) )
and what is it you feed for that cost?

Harley weighs 30kgs so how much would he need to be fed?

I don't have much freezer space (3 drawers) so can't buy in bulk. I really would like to feed RAW, just don't know if logistically I can.
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So he weighs about 6lbs more than Abe.

He needs about 1.4lbs a day.

For me here it costs less but i will go on what my mum feeds.
For her dog in at about 25kg it costs her about 6 pounds a week.
Chicken carcesses, beef tounge, oxtail, organs, intestines and other digestive organs, beef ribs and turkey legs are what she mostly has almost all of it she gets in throw out bags from the butcher near her house but for the last2 months (her sister has been sick) she has split landywoods deliverys with a friend and says she probably spends about 12 pounds a week.
 
I buy a tray of 12 Prize Choice tripe packets a fortnight (£9.50)
Two packs of chicken wings a fortnight (About £4)
Bits and bobs from the bargain bin every fortnight (About £5)
Free bones and offcuts from the butcher.

Bag of Skinners as a training aid, £21, I am still working off a bag I bought in April.
 
CaveCanem said:
I buy a tray of 12 Prize Choice tripe packets a fortnight (£9.50)
Two packs of chicken wings a fortnight (About £4)
Bits and bobs from the bargain bin every fortnight (About £5)
Free bones and offcuts from the butcher.

Bag of Skinners as a training aid, £21, I am still working off a bag I bought in April.
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For 1 dog? Or 2?
 
Chicken wings are shared, the rest is for one dog.
Oh and pig's ears!
I do overlap so that I am never fully out and store stuff up, so that amount of food can last for much longer than a fortnight.

B needs a low protein diet so he gets a £35-37 bag once a month or so.
 
brighteyes said:
See, I was going to ask this very thing...how can I scour the shelves for ethically produced meat for us (often coming home empty-handed) and happily chuck bags, trays and packs of cheaply-sourced meat and bones from Lord only knows where, for my dog?

I have looked at free-range chicken thighs and drumsticks but can't bring myself buy them, as where do I go to from there?

Anyone???
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Also contact raw delivery companies many of them offer ethically rasied meat or go direct to the farm.
 
katielou said:
Why is feeding poorly raised meat in dog food ok but not ok if it is raw?
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That was the point I was trying to make.

I did answer, regarding ethics (and that I don't really have any :p) and that my motivation is my dogs and their health, not price or chicken rights.

I just Googled 'raw dog food, organic, ethical'.

http://www.darlingsrealdogfood.com/
 
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