Barefoot, bitless and ''natural'' vs shod, bitted and ''traditional'' - your views?

[lucy_108]

I'm really interested to hear individual's opinions on this topic.

Do you view those who run their horses barefoot, who ride bitless/bridleless or use more ''natural'' methods of horsemanship i.e. ground training, liberty work, Monty R/Parelli type training styles any differently to those who shoe, bit and use ''traditional'' methods like you're standard schooling sessions, lungeing etc etc.

Without taking offence or getting argumentative, what is your unfiltered view on both sides of this coin?

When I worked in eventing, the person I worked for was so dismissive of anyone that did anything ''alternative'' - even lungeing without any gadget or aid was considered a bit ''hippie'' and I remember one livery being pretty much laughed off the yard for riding bitless - I personally thought what she was doing was pretty cool and demonstrated far more control and partnership that suffocating a horse with a tight noseband, flash and draw reins ever did...but I never understood why people viewed these training methods as ''lesser'' than the standard stuff.

I have really taken to loose work, ground work and liberty work in recent years and gain so much more satisfaction from it that trotting round in circles (don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with schooling or flatwork, I still do it - I just find loose time way more fun), but I'd be really interested to hear other people's views.

What are your thoughts?

 

[poiuytrewq]

I use a bit and my horses wear shoes, however if I had one that didn’t need shoes then I’d not put them on for the hell of it. If I had a horse who preferred bit less and was ok than fine.
I find some barefoot bit less owners do try and ram it down people’s throats and that doesn’t seem the case the other way round.
I knew someone that really tried to make me feel bad for putting shoes on a horse who was sore on hard ground and for rugging and “ruining his natural defences” he was a cold TB.
I’d never try and force my ways on anyone and don’t like it the other way round.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

In previous years I've been a bit of a traditionalist: I'm a Pony Club kid of the 1960's/70's and the way we did things back then, and the way indeed that we were taught, was in a certain way and you tended to stay with that through the years.

You'd never ever even imagine riding either bitless, barefoot, or with anything other than a "treed" saddle back then! Good grief no! Synthetic tack would have been anathema! Good heavens you'd never dream of turning up to a Pony Club rally with plastic tack essentially. Imagine it!

Lately however, in more recent times, I've tended to go a little bit more "alternative". Perhaps it is my 60's Hippy being re-awakened, but some (tho' not all) of the NH stuff out there has been refreshing. I said "not all": and I've been singularly unimpressed with some of it - and I'm gonna say the name and it's Parelli. I sadly saw a cracking young horse, very promising, totally ruined by its owner's obsessive patronisation of misplaced Parelli techniques. Also I think there is a lot of showmanship going on with people like Monty Roberts and others out there who practically have to have "Natural Horsemanship" tattooed on their backsides as they seem to be woefully incapable of communicating what they do any other way. Sadly there are a lot of charlatans out there who fly under the "NH" banner and at the same time seem to extract an awful lot of money from people wishing to follow their esteemed "wisdom". However some of us can still remember the good old Ostlers of olden times who would listen to the horses in their care and know their needs without having to be told; this is what I term as real "natural horsemanship". That said, I've been impressed by the likes of Michael Peace & Kelly Marks, who actually HAVE given techniques to help the ordinary person who wishes to get along with their horses better without beating kingdom-come out of them.

I run a yard where ALL the horses here are barefoot and on a Track system. Some horses here, in fact the majority of those who are ridden, are ridden bitless; I did try a bitless bridle for my coblet but within a few months she started developing a habit of tanking in canter and poking out her nose which was then hollowing-out her back. I changed her back into a piece of metal in her gob and she seemed hugely relieved! I let the pony choose what she was happy with - and her choice was a bitted bridle! Fair enough. If she's happy, I'm happy. We currently ride in a Total Contact Saddle as does another owner here. The TCS is the ONLY saddle which suits us both with our horses.

We are all barefoot; we have an Equine Podiatrist who liveries here, also some owners use a barefoot-friendly farrier. My vet was actually the person who influenced me to transition to barefoot; my cob was having awful white-line problems and it had got to the point where the farrier we had then had performed what amounted to a dorsal resection to the point that she was basically a cloven-footed animal! It was awful. Our vet suggested that as this particular foot obviously wasn't going to hold a shoe, why didn't we consider transitioning to barefoot. We did so, and it was the best thing we ever did. My feeling about shoes on feet isn't evangelical to the degree that I would advocate it on every single occasion; and I would accept that for some horses (and owners) it is a necessity. We are very fortunate in that we have an excellent farrier who is happy to do a proper barefoot trim, and is supportive in situations where the vet say wants to bang on a heart-bar for a laminitic but his feeling is that this would not be the best course of action. Sadly whacking shoes on to sort out every problem is still frequently considered the be-all and end-all and a barefoot option doesn't get considered.

I think for me, "Natural Horsemanship" is best described by the phrase "being a good herd leader that your horse can respect and trust". I use the word "respect". NH should not give the horse the right to have its own way and everything is all very Fluffy. That sometimes happens unfortunately. But a true Natural Horseman/woman is someone who the horse is happy to trust as their herd leader and give them respect & compliance, and to be able to feel safe with. That's my definition.

 

[irishdraft]

You do what suits your horse, my horse is bitted & has shoes if she didn't need them it would be marvellous. I do get rather rather irritated when people make statements that every horse can go without shoes, as I've seen recently on a track livery page or if someone's having trouble holding their horse it's go bit less. I do actually ride my horse most days, over all sorts of terrain, in groups and jump regularly, I suspect most of the people who follow these things don't do this type of riding. However what other people do is up to them.

 

[maya2008]

My view is: whatever works for the horse.

I don’t think it helps to say that one method will work for all - it won’t. I have had to figure things out that are completely new sometimes (current project!), going back to the drawing board each time we hit a snag, working out what the issue was and a way around it. Each method of training, everything anyone learns from different styles of trainer - they are all just tools in a box. You need to select the right tool for the situation and the horse in front of you.

 

[teddy_]

Another whose horses will always be bitted and shod , but that’s simply because it’s worked for me, thus far.

I have no qualms with alternative practices, and I think provided the horse owner is not going along with a certain ethos to the detriment of the horse in question - let them get on with it.

 

[twiggy2]

Barefoot for me as I do feel its best for the vast majority of horses, I feel its rare that shoes can improve things long term in a way that barefoot and life management cannot achieve to a better end.
Everything else is exploring, experimenting and hopefully building a bond and trust with your horse, in the 80's my yard manager was busy bit we did so much ground work and conditioning and prep before getting on that is now called natural horsemanship, I just call it common sense, what w did was anyway.
Happy to ride bitless and to play around to find the best tack arrangement for any horse.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I agree that it should be whatever works for the horse. I think there are many views of what is 'traditional'. I learned to ride at RS in the late 60s/early 70s where the RI was very keen on safety. She was very conscious that she had other people's children in her care. Her husband was rather more gungho but both knew horses well and taught their pupils to work with the horses as individuals.

Then I met a hunting farmer who was absolutely brilliant with horses; you would have expected him to be traditional but he certainly wasn't a 'one size fits all' proponent. None of those people are still with us but their legacies live on in those they taught to treat each horse as an individual.

My horses currently live out 24/7 and have never worn shoes but that regime wouldn't suit all horses. I had never heard the term 'groundwork' till I joined HHO but had always worked my horses from the ground/inhand, as a matter of course, especially when trying to solve a problem

 

[Hackback]

With my 4 year old I'm currently having lessons with Joe Midgley. He's not 'NH' as much as Western, but a lot of the focus has been on groundwork and directing the horse without physical pressure. It doesn't mean the horse gets an easy life or away with anything, quite the opposite, but it gives the horse the option of making the right choice and finding peace in that option.

Prior to Joe I was using the more traditional methods that I'd been used to, like holding onto my horse's head to control him, even using a chifney to lead him safely. It wasn't working - I could lead him safely in a chifney but he didn't get any safer to lead. Now he leads on a loose rope and moves where I want him to go without any pull. Best of all he seems very content with the new arrangement.

It's been a bit of a revelation to be honest, our other horses were fine with the traditional methods we were used to, but this one just wasn't happy.

If there's one thing horses teach you it's that you never stop learning lol.

 

[Caol Ila]

Bloody hippies. LOL.

Seriously, “natural” horsemanship isn’t any more natural than what you’re calling “traditional” horsemanship. It’s just a different collection of methods with a different history behind them. Comes from the cowboy traditions of the American west, where people needed to break in rank horses quickly then have them do a job, often in isolated, remote locations where you needed it to be very reliable.

People like the Dorrance brothers and Ray Hunt presented their methods as more natural and humane than some of the other training used by cowboys, like bucking a horse out, tying up a leg until it falls over, etc., some dodgy stuff. They weren’t the only people training horses in a more humane way using those techniques, but they started selling it a bit more, doing more clinics, things like that. Then people like Parelli and Monty Roberts hit the marketing hard, sold it to millions as this new and enlightened way of working with your horse that they invented. It wasn’t and they didn’t.

 

[sollimum]

I only learnt ''groundwork'' last year really. I found a horsemanship trainer to help me with my worried young cob. He is barefoot as he wrenched his shoes off a couple of times. Not all horses can go barefoot but the majority can with time and correct diet - I have a fab EP now but even he agrees that sometimes he tells a client that a horse needs to be shod. So we will see how the cobs go but so far, so good which is amazing having transitioned just before this wet winter. My young cob was rebacked bitless and now a snaffle has been introduced but he can be ridden both ways now. So there is no wrong or right way but being aware of alternatives and treating each horse as an individual.

 

[Cortez]

My views on what is under the "Natural Horsemanship" banner are somewhat pungent based on the results that I have seen and dealt with (hint: extremely poor). My background is I suppose traditional, being that I am A. a bit old and there wasn't anything "alternative" around when I was starting out with horses in the '60's/'70's, and B. a retired pro dressage trainer/competitor/breeder. Having said that, my later career with horses has included training horses for film and displays of Baroque riding, and none of my horses wore shoes for about the last 20 years, because they didn't need them for the work they were doing, not because I necessarily disapprove of shoeing. I find treeless saddles absolutely horrid, but then again I haven't sat in every saddle that is available, and having ridden exclusively in either baroque or Spanish/Portuguese saddles for more than 20 years I also now find modern dressage and jumping saddles awful too.

As part of training for films and displays, I have worked horses at liberty, on the short hand rein, trained them for bridleless riding/neck rope, jousting, taught various levade/rear movements (safely; anything else is just napping ), lying down, working to a mark, etc. Far from using alternative methods for this type of training, my go-to has been the very early Masters from centuries ago: nothing Natural about it.

I do find the rather more evangelical NH devotees a bit eye-rolly, but if that's what they feel happy doing then let 'em at it; they do have a tendency to spout a lot of guff 'though. In my experience they appear to be people without ambition for conventional horse sport, more focussed on the pet angle of horse ownership.

ETA: all my horses were ridden one-handed on the curb. I have to say I haven't been at all impressed by any of the bitless horses I've seen ridden, but that is likewise a reflection of the skill of the trainer (except for well-trained bosal Western horses of course, but that is a stage in progression to reined work, ultimately on a spade bit, and you won't see much of that around these here parts.....)

 

[sollimum]

Bloody hippies. LOL.

Seriously, “natural” horsemanship isn’t any more natural than what you’re calling “traditional” horsemanship. It’s just a different collection of methods with a different history behind them. Comes from the cowboy traditions of the American west, where people needed to break in rank horses quickly then have them do a job, often in isolated, remote locations where you needed it to be very reliable.

People like the Dorrance brothers and Ray Hunt presented their methods as more natural and humane than some of the other training used by cowboys, like bucking a horse out, tying up a leg until it falls over, etc., some dodgy stuff. They weren’t the only people training horses in a more humane way using those techniques, but they started selling it a bit more, doing more clinics, things like that. Then people like Parelli and Monty Roberts hit the marketing hard, sold it to millions as this new and enlightened way of working with your horse that they invented. It wasn’t and they didn’t.

Totally this!

 

[SantaVera]

My horse has a treed saddle and a bit but he's barefoot because he gets little work and doesn't need shoes. I have boots for longer rides. There's no one size fits all some horses are better going in a bitless bridle for example but I don't like them as they lack the finesse of a bit.

 

[daffy44]

I dont think it has to be either or, as others have said, I totally agree that its down to whatever suits the individual horse best. My horses have mainly been barefoot for the last twenty years, but I've also had a couple of horses who were shod, it depends on the horse. I have always done some groundwork, although when I started it wasnt called that, it seems sensible to me, and it works. Both my GP horses are happy to work with a traditional bit, or in just a headcollar, it doesnt really make a difference, I dont think you need to be on one side or the other, its more important to me to keep an open mind and be happy to experiment to find what works best for each individual horse.

 

[Gloi]

I don't really like the way these things are being linked together. It is possible to do one without the others but some sites are so over the top and put down those who disagree.

 

[Vermeer]

I probably fall into the more alternative side tbh, never shod my ponies but they have always been native types who are fine without. I ride in a treeless saddle and am interested in trying a bitless bridle at some point in the future, if it suited my gelding and he went better in it than his current snaffle. I'm not really one for lunging or schooling in the normal sense but I do enjoy groundwork and using it in my day to day with the ponies.

I think there are useful things to take from both camps. I was taught a more traditional way as a kid but have just picked up bits and bobs from different sources over the years and use whatever works.

 

[Caol Ila]

I should add that I use a lot of so-called NH techniques because I grew up around that stuff, so I find it an easy way to teach groundwork.

My young horse goes in a western hackamore and my older horse goes in a snaffle. Both are barefoot. Gelding is in a treeless saddle and mare is in a leather tree Iberian thing.

Cortez, my dream is for you to take a trip to Scotland and meet Hermosa.lol.

 

[Cortez]

I should add that I use a lot of so-called NH techniques because I grew up around that stuff, so I find it an easy way to teach groundwork.

My young horse goes in a western hackamore and my older horse goes in a snaffle. Both are barefoot. Gelding is in a treeless saddle and mare is in a leather tree Iberian thing.

Cortez, my dream is for you to take a trip to Scotland and meet Hermosa.lol.

Invitation accepted

 

[SEL]

I have one in a hackamore (she could just as easily be in a headcollar but she likes the hackamore). It's actually because she has a problem with her soft palate and struggles to breath with a bit, but the comments I get are interesting.

Literally every horsey person notices and comments on it. I had a through and through BHS instructor (late 50s so that era of training) ask me if I even hacked in it - I do because the pony's breathing doesn't suddenly improve on the roads! Good thing she didn't see the bosal.

It was putting shoes on her that got the most raised eyebrows esp from some of the barefoot brigade. I'd had x rays and she has wonky feet so it explained why she was so sore - shoes have been an absolute game changer for her comfort (& diet doesn't change wonky bones) but to listen to some people you'd have thought I'd sold my soul to the devil. Ridiculous really.

 

[Time for Tea]

I just do what I think is best and the horse seems to like and what works for us and what is safest also. I like to experiment and observe. I have enjoyed doing a bit of clicker training, and the ponies loved it. Possibly because it involved food! In fact you could see they found it interesting and tried to work out what you wanted. Nobody likes being ridden in a hackamore, I have a very old one somewhere. My old ID/TB was very upset by it. Everyone likes being ridden in a headcollar and neckreining, but I’m not convinced this is safe for the busy New Forest and my advancing years, so everyone is in a slightly different snaffle that seems to suit them. One Hilary Vernon, one Myler and one Neu Schule. One is hunted in a thin rubber Pelham, with roundings I am sorry to say, but he prefers that to two reins, no idea why. We just go with what they are comfortable with. Two are fully shod, one with fronts only. I have very stony fields and it is very stony where I live, with long gravel tracks.
I think a lot of this waving sticks and chasing around pens can be jolly threatening for horses, if you get it wrong. Better to stick to tradition. NH Very effective if you get it right. I can loose school my older Forester now and he will canter round beautifully and pop over two small jumps on a 20m circle, but the first time I tried loose schooling, no jumps of course at that stage, I don’t know if I did something particularly stupid (probably) or what, but he completely panicked and just bolted around the manège at a flat out gallop. Round and round, flat out. I had to leave the arena, and turn my back on him and go floppy to dial down my body language to get him to gradually calm down.
I think it takes skill to build up trust, and you can destroy that trust quickly.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Old Dobbin has always been barefoot, and I gradually changed over to bitless and treeless as it suited him so much better. He is borderline EMS, and was ridden daily for two to three hours, in all sort of situations, track, open ground, lanes, roads, heavy traffic etc.. He is now 29, still sound, and still retaining topline. Do whatever suits your horse, but please don't do it for fashion.

 

[blitznbobs]

All of my horses are now unshod (this is not by design but non needed shoes so they weren’t put on I don’t do any roadwork anymore)

All are trained in hand but I have always done this my methods have been influenced to do even more on the ground but I have always long reined quite a lot I do more work close to the horse now.

I ride in a treed modern dressage saddle almost exclusively now because that’s what I like and suits me the best and the horses don’t seem to object.

I use a bit because I feel safer with one and don’t really see the point in changing unless it is essentially for a headcolllar and arm none of my horses are trained well enough to go just in a head collar. They are all in either a Ns team up or a verbidend depending on the horse (this is coincidence as I don’t limit myself to these 2 bits but like to keep dressage legal if I can)

I don’t think there are 2 separate camps any more it’s more of a mishmash of a tool bag that people select what they want from and leave what they don’t.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I don't care what choices are made as long as the horse is happy.

 

[alibali]

My horse is ridiculously sensitive. I have trialed 3 different bits and 3 different bitless bridles. She will end up in whatever she finds least objectionable!

I started her in a treeless saddle as I had it to hand following several loan ponies who arrived unfit and fat with a fitting saddle, got fit and slim and needed a different saddle. I thought it might work whilst she changed shape coming into work then could be replaced by a treed saddle. Now I know how sensitive she is and that she is happy in the treeless I'm too scared to change it

All my horses are barefoot and booted if required because I think it's better for them (in general) and I know it's easier on my ground and on my pocket! I wouldn't hesitate to show however if there was a reason this would be better for a particular horses welfare.

So at the moment I'm a total hippy by default but open to being entirely traditional if that's what the horse required.

 

[scats]

Provided the welfare of the animal comes first and foremost, I couldn’t care less whether someone has a horse barefoot, shod, bitless, bitted, waves a carrot stick at them or prefers to do things more traditionally.
Look at the horse as an individual, assess their brain and how they are going to take to the questions you ask, then adapt as needed.

My girls are barefoot now because they don’t need shoes. But I’ve had plenty who I have kept shod and will do so again if need be.

 

[outinthefens88]

My comments here....if the method suit the horse and the work load it is being asked to do, I have no issues.

I regularly ride competitive Endurance alongside those that are using hoof boots and/or bitless bridles.

They do well as it suits THEIR horse - would it suit mine sadly not, there's many reasons why but its an avenue that is not suitable for us. It has been looked into at length and discussed with several independent and unbiased professionals and their opinions all match.

I have absolutely no issue with those that use either/or and can adequately and clearly explain their reasons for doing so - those that do it because 'Karen on Facebook says bits are nasty' well, you can't educate stupid.

I have seen training methods I have taken on board and I have seen training methods that I have walked away from.

Such is life!

 

[webble]

All my horses have been barefoot, current one has boots previous one had nothing. Previous one had a soft tree saddle and was bitless. I tried bitless with my current horse and he was not happy at all, he has ended up with a rubber bit so flexible you can fold it in half

I don't judge others for what they do unless it's harsh equipment or gadgets used incorrectly

 

[MatHalTed]

All of mine are barefoot now as they don't need shoes, my gelding previously was shod on all 4 as that's how he came to me and it was "the norm." I pulled his shoes when I retired him and he was significantly happier and his "terrible TB hooves" started to de-contract and improve. This then led me to do a deep dive into the more natural horsemanship style methods, especially with my youngster, and once again I saw significant improvements to behaviour, temperament, fitness and overall soundness when I moved my 3 to our own property with an implemented track system to encourage movement, switched to a low starch and low sugar diet, pulled shoes and on 24/7 turnout with access to shelter. I do think the majority of horses, unless with specific medical conditions that require remedial shoeing, can go barefoot and will benefit from the removal of traditional shoes, most people just don't really want to try as the transition can take a long time, which means they might miss out on riding and competing. I've tried bitless on my gelding and he's happy with it, but I also ride him around bareback in just a halter so it wasn't really a surprise. My youngster not so much as she didn't like the pressure on her nasal bone, so that is really dependent on the horse.

 

[Leafcutter]

My 25 year old who has been barefoot most of his life and is now in a full set as the lanes around his current field are very stoney and he wasn’t coping barefoot any more. He was also treeless, but only because he’s so hard to fit with a traditional saddle, and he’s ridden bitless sometimes, with a bit at other times. I do think some of the barefoot brigade are a bit evangelical, personally I just do whatever suits the horse and the circumstances at any given time.