Barefoot diet - can it be used for shod horses?

MurphysMinder said:
Genuine question here, you say Hho Hho has a barefoot horse. I have 2 ponies and a donkey here, none have shoes on. One pony (aged 20) and the donkey (mid 30s) have never been shod, the other pony (24) has not had shoes on for around 5 years. They are all trimmed by my farrier who previously shod the one pony and stills shoes the horse. To me my gang are just plain unshod, not barefoot, as I had unshod ponies way before I ever heard of barefoot. So is there a difference, or can I give them a more fancy name now.
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Call it what you like, none of us care two hoots. I call it barefoot, so what, so did the heroine in True Grit :D
 
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cptrayes said:
You tell me. Why DO farriers shoe thousands of horses who don't need shoes?

You tell me why, after two farriers told me that my first barefoot horse would never be able to work without shoes, I was able to event him at BE novice with no shoes well before the year was out?


ps the answer for most of them is "they are not taught about hard working barefoot horses during their training and therefore they know no better". Shame on the FRC and the WCF for their ongoing failure to rectify this situation.
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I imagine they shoe them as the owner has asked him too or because they have asked his opinion and the horse does need shoes for whatever reason. My farrier does what I ask or advises when he needs to. He told me my horse didnt need shoes behind but I asked him to shoe him and so he did. I have respect for my farrier, I dont respect all of them though!
 
Amaranta said:
I don't think HHH was being particularly unpleasant, she was questioning something that she did not agree with, only to be jumped on by those who worship at the feet of self proclaimed experts.
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CAYLA said:
^^^ this too:p
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No she wasn't.

She didn't ask any meaningful questions at all. She just made statements, some of which were calculated to offend or annoy. Shame she failed :D
 
cptrayes said:
You tell me. Why DO farriers shoe thousands of horses who don't need shoes?

You tell me why, after two farriers told me that my first barefoot horse would never be able to work without shoes, I was able to event him at BE novice with no shoes well before the year was out?


ps the answer for most of them is "they are not taught about hard working barefoot horses during their training and therefore they know no better". Shame on the FRC and the WCF for their ongoing failure to rectify this situation.
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They are taught about barefoot....I was going to do a farrier course at uni and they do it at my uni and I helped my farrier friend with his work and they were doing about unshod horses and working barefoot ect
 
badgermyers said:
I imagine they shoe them as the owner has asked him too or because they have asked his opinion and the horse does need shoes for whatever reason.
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Badgermyers my own and other people's experience is that too many farriers still exist who don't understand what work most horses can do without shoes and continue to shoe in the belief that they need them, when they don't.

I blame the FRC and the WCF for the fact that even now this is not covered in the syllabus of an apprentice farrier.

There are great farriers out there who know about horses working hard with no shoes on. Many of them have found out information for themselves, some by putting themselves through training supplied by the trimming organisations. Some were lucky enough to train with a master who had the knowledge. It needs including in the syllabus.
 
badgermyers said:
They are taught about barefoot....I was going to do a farrier course at uni and they do it at my uni and I helped my farrier friend with his work and they were doing about unshod horses and working barefoot ect
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Funnily enough mine did it too, kind of ruins the argument that they know nothing but shoeing that some would have us believe :)
 
Amaranta said:
Why is it ok for some to make statements and not others?
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I said nothing about whether it was OK or not OK for her to make those statements. You said all she was doing was asking (innocent implied) questions and my response was that she was not.

She can write what she likes, it's an open forum.
 
Nope, pretty sure I asked a genuine question about farriers...

I'm touched that you think I spend my time on here trying to offend you. Couldn't be further from the truth, but if you want to feel special... crack on ;)
 
Amaranta said:
Funnily enough mine did it too, kind of ruins the argument that they know nothing but shoeing that some would have us believe :)
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They are only taught it if they serve under a master who thinks that they should know it. Hard working barefoot horses are NOT in the syllabus. Check it out, it's available online.

People who have a farrier who covered it during their apprenticeship are the lucky ones.
 
cptrayes said:
Badgermyers my own and other people's experience is that too many farriers still exist who don't understand what work most horses can do without shoes and continue to shoe in the belief that they need them, when they don't.

I blame the FRC and the WCF for the fact that even now this is not covered in the syllabus of an apprentice farrier.

There are great farriers out there who know about horses working hard with no shoes on. Many of them have found out information for themselves, some by putting themselves through training supplied by the trimming organisations. Some were lucky enough to train with a master who had the knowledge. It needs including in the syllabus.
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I am pretty sure at my uni they are told about unshod working horses. I helped my farrier friend with his work about it anyway. I wanted to become a farrier and I was told on the open day I would learn how to deal with shod and unshod feet ect ect. So maybe its new? I dont know.

Personally I am interested in both barefoot and shod working horses. I half understand the barefoot diet and want to find more papers about how it benefits exactly as from studying equine nutrition with a very well respected person in that field (who says the barefoot diet is tosh) I dont see exactly how it works so would like to see more evidence for it myself :) Hooves are interesting
 
Pale Rider said:
Farriers who don't want to shoe are getting very popular all of a sudden, or am I just being cyincal.:D
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Not sudden at all PL, my last farrier suggested I not shoe over 10 years ago, when I moved my new farrier actively encourages it.

Farrier appears to be a dirty word with the taliban, however, call me lucky, but over the last 20++ years I have had brilliant farriers (3 of them) and I get mightily sick of hearing the profession take a bashing from people
on self erected pedestals - and woe betide anyone who questions these 'experts'
 
badgermyers said:
I am pretty sure at my uni they are told about unshod working horses. I helped my farrier friend with his work about it anyway. I wanted to become a farrier and I was told on the open day I would learn how to deal with shod and unshod feet ect ect. So maybe its new? I dont know.
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Learn how to deal with, means "learn how to trim" That is in the syllabus.

Nothing is in the syllabus about how much work a barefoot horse can do unshod and you will hear time and time again farriers quoted as saying "of course if you want to do much roadwork you will need shoes on" when in fact tarmac is one of the best conditioning surfaces to work on.

In addition they aren't taught how to feed to keep a horse from being footsore, and in consequence their first port of call if the horse goes footie in its work is often to shoe. They usually blame "hard ground" in spring when most of those horses are probably footie because of the grass.

Neither do they know enough about the metabolic diseases which are a frequent cause of horses being unable to manage without shoes.
 
Amaranta said:
Not sudden at all PL, my last farrier suggested I not shoe over 10 years ago, when I moved my new farrier actively encourages it.

Farrier appears to be a dirty word with the taliban, however, call me lucky, but over the last 20++ years I have had brilliant farriers (3 of them) and I get mightily sick of hearing the profession take a bashing from people
on self erected pedestals - and woe betide anyone who questions these 'experts'
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My old farrier used to shoe 30 horses for me in batches of 10 every two weeks.

When I told him I was going barefoot with them, apart from his disappointment, he said that he had never shod any of his horses, didn't need it and a waste of money. He could have told me sooner.:D
 
cptrayes said:
I said nothing about whether it was OK or not OK for her to make those statements. You said all she was doing was asking (innocent implied) questions and my response was that she was not.

She can write what she likes, it's an open forum.
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Yes she can and should be able to without being jumped on from a great height by those who worship
 
cptrayes said:
Learn how to deal with, means "learn how to trim" That is in the syllabus.

Nothing is in the syllabus about how much work a barefoot horse can do unshod and you will hear time and time again farriers quoted as saying "of course if you want to do much roadwork you will need shoes on" when in fact tarmac is one of the best conditioning surfaces to work on.

In addition they aren't taught how to feed to keep a horse from being footsore, and in consequence their first port of call if the horse goes footie in its work is often to shoe. They usually blame "hard ground" in spring when most of those horses are probably footie because of the grass.

Neither do they know enough abou thte metabolic diseases which are a frequent cause of horses being unable to manage without shoes.
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It was more than trim else I couldnt have helped him! It was about surfaces, balance and nutrition as they are some of the things I do in my degree hence he asked me for help. Yes my farrier told me to lead my pony down the roads so he has to trim him less, which I knew already but just shows how level headed my farrier is. When my mare was foot sore barefoot he told me it was the grass (again I new she was footy on hard ground and sound on grass) and she was living out as I was putting her in foal. My farrier trained at my uni so maybe thats why?
 
Amaranta said:
I get mightily sick of hearing the profession take a bashing from people
on self erected pedestals - and woe betide anyone who questions these 'experts'
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Question away, what can we help you with? Or what can you teach us that we need to know?

"The profession" has good and bad members, as do all professions. It is not bashing the profession to quote examples of poor work or lack of knowledge. I'm not telling you to stop telling me how much you rate your farrier. Lucky you. But I'd love people like you to get off my back if I have not been so lucky, and if I continue to see people who are not so lucky.

There are loads of great farriers who know what hard working barefoot horses need, but at the moment it's in spite of their apprentice training, not because of it. The WCF and the FRC need to pull their fingers out.
 
badgermyers said:
It was more than trim else I couldnt have helped him! It was about surfaces, balance and nutrition as they are some of the things I do in my degree hence he asked me for help. Yes my farrier told me to lead my pony down the roads so he has to trim him less, which I knew already but just shows how level headed my farrier is. When my mare was foot sore barefoot he told me it was the grass (again I new she was footy on hard ground and sound on grass) and she was living out as I was putting her in foal. My farrier trained at my uni so maybe thats why?
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That's great news BM. I hope they will change the syllabus so they all get that.
 
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