barefoot, I am getting seriously worried.

paddy555

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by Hoofing Marvellous. If anyone is considering barefoot please be careful.

their view is that all vets, farriers, barefoot trimmers are wrong and only they are right. They are unqualified or at least they have their own training to qualify in their method. Dissent is not allowed.

we all know there are some poor vets, farriersand trimmers but surely the entire horse world dealing in feet cannot be wrong in their ideas most of which are very similar? of course not.

worst of all they are now a total cult and proud of it.
Sadly we have seen cults in barefoot before ie Strasser which caused a lot of problems.

In a cult the leader posts and the cult members agree. They have read the leader's posts and learnt how to repeat them. Many of them have never picked up a rasp let alone trimmed a foot. The simply don't have the info. to evaluate what the leader is telling them. They agree and the leader praises them for their comment so they feel good and agree some more.

Horses and their feet are individuals and need trimming on that basis not on a single trim being applied to every horse. What works for one isn't right for another.

The have the idea that rotation is not due to laminitis but poor trimming. Good trimming to them seems to be leaving the toe long and taking the heels right down, plus I think the bars.

They demonstrated that rotation was due to poor trimming simply by 3 xrays taken on 3 months. They don't seem to believe any other points such as diet,,work, medicine, PPID etc could be relevant. Even if they were correct any project to totally turn current veterinary and farriery knowledge completely on it's head would be massive, taking several years and hundreds of case studies and x rays on all sorts of feet and trims.

Trimming for laminitis appears to include leaving the toe alone. That means it can be anything up to 3/4 inches out in front per some of their pictures. To them leverage doesn't exist.

Simply if you don't trim their way and your horse gets lami it is your fault alone and you must take the blame.

Their posts are aggressive and harsh on this point. That doesn't help anyone with a problem.

Their recent posting showing rotation due to poor trimming based on 3 x rays had many comments from farriers, vets etc but many of these seem to have been removed. The farriers/vets made good points and talked sense. HM replies were bordering on ridiculous. They failed to address points and were very keen on criticising the professionals who, sadly, were not them.

They are boasting 8k followers now on their site. I suspect some of those are like me, watching, concerned but not posting in case we get banned.

I know many on here trim in more or less the same way and work on keeping the toes back but just on case someone is wondering then take care folks.
 

Arzada

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I can't work out where they are based? Can't get into the HMI School to find out.

Anyhow, is the cadaver foot being held by Garry Hinton, HMB Pro Instructor an example of their trim? The sole has been severely carved a la Strasser. (https://hoofingmarvellous.net/)

The photos of Lindsay Setchell, also a HMB Pro, in her YouTube thumbnails make her look deranged are ridiculous
 

paddy555

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Blimey! I've just looked at their page. Their language would make me avoid, even if what they were saying wasn't so absurd.
Blimey!! a somewhat moderate word I think :D:D:D:D:D

in the time since I posted this thread they have put another post up about rotation in a hind.

If you want to be a professional force to be reckoned with and for people to take notice to forward research you don't use their language nor communicate in that sort of way. And you provide evidence. It appears they don't even have before and after x rays ATM of the hind foot they are discussing.
 

paddy555

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I can't work out where they are based? Can't get into the HMI School to find out.

Anyhow, is the cadaver foot being held by Garry Hinton, HMB Pro Instructor an example of their trim? The sole has been severely carved a la Strasser. (https://hoofingmarvellous.net/)

The photos of Lindsay Setchell, also a HMB Pro, in her YouTube thumbnails make her look deranged are ridiculous
you need to be on the FB page for Hoofing marvellous and also their sister site of Phoenix. That seems to be where much of the comment and pics are.
 

Fieldlife

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by Hoofing Marvellous. If anyone is considering barefoot please be careful.

their view is that all vets, farriers, barefoot trimmers are wrong and only they are right. They are unqualified or at least they have their own training to qualify in their method. Dissent is not allowed.

we all know there are some poor vets, farriersand trimmers but surely the entire horse world dealing in feet cannot be wrong in their ideas most of which are very similar? of course not.

worst of all they are now a total cult and proud of it.
Sadly we have seen cults in barefoot before ie Strasser which caused a lot of problems.

In a cult the leader posts and the cult members agree. They have read the leader's posts and learnt how to repeat them. Many of them have never picked up a rasp let alone trimmed a foot. The simply don't have the info. to evaluate what the leader is telling them. They agree and the leader praises them for their comment so they feel good and agree some more.

Horses and their feet are individuals and need trimming on that basis not on a single trim being applied to every horse. What works for one isn't right for another.

The have the idea that rotation is not due to laminitis but poor trimming. Good trimming to them seems to be leaving the toe long and taking the heels right down, plus I think the bars.

They demonstrated that rotation was due to poor trimming simply by 3 xrays taken on 3 months. They don't seem to believe any other points such as diet,,work, medicine, PPID etc could be relevant. Even if they were correct any project to totally turn current veterinary and farriery knowledge completely on it's head would be massive, taking several years and hundreds of case studies and x rays on all sorts of feet and trims.

Trimming for laminitis appears to include leaving the toe alone. That means it can be anything up to 3/4 inches out in front per some of their pictures. To them leverage doesn't exist.

Simply if you don't trim their way and your horse gets lami it is your fault alone and you must take the blame.

Their posts are aggressive and harsh on this point. That doesn't help anyone with a problem.

Their recent posting showing rotation due to poor trimming based on 3 x rays had many comments from farriers, vets etc but many of these seem to have been removed. The farriers/vets made good points and talked sense. HM replies were bordering on ridiculous. They failed to address points and were very keen on criticising the professionals who, sadly, were not them.

They are boasting 8k followers now on their site. I suspect some of those are like me, watching, concerned but not posting in case we get banned.

I know many on here trim in more or less the same way and work on keeping the toes back but just on case someone is wondering then take care folks.
Definitely watching.

I am following the short as possible toe trimming method, for a normal horse, and trying to build / increase heel with the help of a good mainstream trimmer, which would seem to be the opposite of what they promote.

They do seem a bit mad.

But there case studies do also seem to show improvement.

And Graveney Equine: Horse Track System use their trimmers and seem to show consistent rehab success.
 

Fieldlife

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There was a good podcast on the madness - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/m-j-farrier-another-way/id1723768048?i=1000656440331

Social Media part 2, The Rise of the Cult within barefoot hoof care​

M J Farrier another way?
Our most gritty podcast to date by far, Matthew Jackson and Mark Johnson tackle the emotive and divisive subject of what can almost also be described as a dictatorship emerging within barefoot hoof care.

With some incredulous claims and absolute statements, intermingling with actually some, very good advice.
Matthew and Mark share their thoughts and opinions on how the Cult are utilising social media to influence and gain momentum.

For once this podcast does contain some "MODERATE LANGUAGE" only driven by their mutual passion for the equine world and the special place as farriers they occupy.

So, please pull up a chair or keep your eyes on the road and we hope at the very least, you'll find this podcast thought provoking.
M J Farrier another way? Podcast




S
 

Fieldlife

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Are HM linked to the very fervent barefoot magazine too?

I do know some people who have been on HM trimming courses, and the view was that they really wanted to trim the foot a lot, and take a lot off, and the people doing course's own horses would have been sore with same approach. (Was a conversation a while ago, whilst I was on another unrelated course).
 

SEL

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I'm having a really challenging time on FB with this.

I stopped following them but a friend (who has a large SM following due to her other interests) has just started using a HM trimmer for her horse and credits her with saving the mare's soundness. Its all over her personal page.

We have a mutual friend who is a trimmer and definitely not a HM fan who has been trying very hard to stay silent - at least on personal pages - but I know she's feeling increasingly nervous about the route the mare's trim looks to be taking.
 

nikkimariet

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Bizarre. They used to be pretty ‘on it’ with their content when I first encountered them possibly around a decade ago. I have avoided them since they began to more frequently post content that had no educational value or insight and only seemed a dig at other social media users etc.
 

Nicnac

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Gosh just spent far too much time down their particular rabbit hole. They delete quite a few non-believers it appears and have a good old ruck with those who question their methods without any valid riposte. When I try to find a list of HM trimmers, it just brings up the two founders (see what I did there?)
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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Have to say I've never heard of them.

I transitioned both of my horses to barefoot a few years back (on vet advice as my pony had huge white line issues); had to get rid of the farrier I had then as he'd taken his arse in his hand about my barefoot decision. For a time we were with an Equine Podiatrist, now we're with a newly-qualified young farrier who really "gets it" as far as barefoot is concerned.

If a set-up similar to the awful Strasser technique that we all had heard about back in the day has come forth, and which is now putting people off barefoot, this is a huge shame. Barefoot IS a viable option for many owners; but the main problem as I see it is people deciding to transition purely for economic reasons, without realising that it is actually a huge commitment of time, energy, and correct management - it isn't a case of just taking the shoes off and hoping for the best.

Will endeavour to try and find out more about this.

If anyone is considering Barefoot transitioning: you could do worse than get onto The Barefoot Horse Owners Group UK group on Facebook.
 

tda

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I must admit I was a bit stunned to hear that bad trimming can cause laminitis 🤔🙄
I did watch one of their webcast a year or so ago, it i found the lady really hard to listen to/follow

I am a bit torn because I can see some good parts of their preaching, the track livery horses recovering from serious laminitis, leaving the toe long during the recovery I originally went WHAT!!! But after seeing the recovery I feel a bit differently. And because of the surfaces they live on/movement they will not be left with a long toe over time. But I suppose that for a normal horse owner who don't have that natural wear you will soon run into problems
 

paddy555

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There was a good podcast on the madness - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/m-j-farrier-another-way/id1723768048?i=1000656440331

Social Media part 2, The Rise of the Cult within barefoot hoof care​

M J Farrier another way?
Our most gritty podcast to date by far, Matthew Jackson and Mark Johnson tackle the emotive and divisive subject of what can almost also be described as a dictatorship emerging within barefoot hoof care.

With some incredulous claims and absolute statements, intermingling with actually some, very good advice.
Matthew and Mark share their thoughts and opinions on how the Cult are utilising social media to influence and gain momentum.

For once this podcast does contain some "MODERATE LANGUAGE" only driven by their mutual passion for the equine world and the special place as farriers they occupy.

So, please pull up a chair or keep your eyes on the road and we hope at the very least, you'll find this podcast thought provoking.
M J Farrier another way? Podcast




S
thanks for posting that. I was going to but just didn't get the time. Important to have some REAL trimmers/experts giving their view.
 

paddy555

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What is it with barefoot groups and then becoming crazy?
that is a very good question and I have no answer. How can trimming 4 feet on a flipping horse cause all these problems and all these "cults" I really don't know.

We don't, or at least I don't think we do, have problems with dentists. We don't have problems with clipping horses or anything else with them so why this?

The irony that the HM logo is a well shaped, rounded hoof 😂
the even bigger irony is their predecessor cult which many people fell for.

Strasser had a book called "a lifetime of soundness" just a small paperback for the public. On the front was a colour pic of a hoof. I believe it was a haflinger possibly as it exactly resembled my haffies foot.
It was the most perfect foot you could imagine. You looked at that pic and thought "yes THIS" :D:D:D:D how wrong we were when we hit the reality.:eek:
 

shortstuff99

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I must be the most lazy horse owner with barefoot horses going. All of mine are barefoot and they just get normal trimming from a farrier and a forage based diet and that is all I do for it 🤷.

They never have any issues, footiness etc maybe I'm just lucky 😅

I'm not sure I could be bothered with all this crazy culture nonsense.
 

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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I must be the most lazy horse owner with barefoot horses going. All of mine are barefoot and they just get normal trimming from a farrier and a forage based diet and that is all I do for it 🤷.

They never have any issues, footiness etc maybe I'm just lucky 😅

I'm not sure I could be bothered with all this crazy culture nonsense.
^^^ Would agree with you. I did feed mine a "special supplement" (Equimins Hoof Mender) when we first transitioned as her feet were just blimmin awful.

I am a YO and all of the horses here are barefoot. No pressure, 'tis owners' choice. Ditto Track system. And (for those horses who are ridden) it is treeless; the majority of us ride in the Total Contact Saddle. Bitless? Mine isn't, simply because we did try bitless but she made it very obvious that she was finding it uncomfortable, so I put the bit of metal back in her gob and she was happy!
 

Tiddlypom

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I briefly dabbled in the barefoot groups 😳. I did once attend an all day barefoot workshop hosted by a trimmer. She was nice enough, but the other attendees were 🦇💩 crazy.

One introduced herself then launched straight into ‘I Don’t Rug My Horses’. None of them did, it was a real thing for them, so I decided that to survive my paid-for day I had better keep quiet about my nice collection of Rambos.
 
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