Barefoot post - sorry, short

badgermyers said:
my point proven that not all horses can go barefoot
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Personally I fear that research is not for you,
You can't go into it to prove a point and we have no idea how Tangos mum is managing her horse ( no a point made against you TM if one of mine was crippled after a fortnight I would have been doing something else although I would be very worried about a horse crippled in boots and would want to know why)
But does it matter if not all horses can do it I am really interested in my horses who are doing well .
We have one in shoes he was out of shoes mid march to mid October he's had serious health issues and a lot of steriods which have affected his feet he worked without shoes all summer using boots when needed it corrected his toe first landing but There was no way he would do his job shoeless so it's back to shoes to earn his keep till mid march when the shoes come off again surely that's a good pragmatic approach there Is no dispute that shoeing adversely affects horses feet particularily the heels and frogs and that breaks from shoeing are vital .
I don't see it as any sort of failure to have a horses coming in and out of shoes I have always done this the difference now is that I see they can work out of shoes ( within comfort levels of course at first ) so giving a break does not need to mean getting fat and soft so I now have the best of all worlds to play with each horse.
 
badgermyers said:
you didnt explain that. Most people I see dont use shoes because its natural. Its hard to understand everyone of a forum
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I think then thats the next question to ask everyone - why are you barefoot.

I'm no bunny hugger either, my horses have a job, are stabled and worked, they wear tree'd saddles and I have no interest in natural horsemanship, but I am interested in sj, xc and all things fun.

My horses are barefoot because I believe it is the best way to keep my horses sound and able to go do our BS/BD/BE.
 
Scarlett said:
I think then thats the next question to ask everyone - why are you barefoot.

I'm no bunny hugger either, my horses have a job, are stabled and worked, they wear tree'd saddles and I have no interest in natural horsemanship, but I am interested in sj, xc and all things fun.

My horses are barefoot because I believe it is the best way to keep my horses sound and able to go do our BS/BD/BE.
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Maybe in the future I will start that thread. It is something I will ask in my study anyway
 
There was a video on here a few days ago. On about early warning signs of laminitis. It's a must see really. These horses had shoes on. You will know it before that stage without the shoes. Look it, I have 2 that I had to put shoes back on and I'm not very happy about that considering they had the better feet than the 2 who are flying without shoes. The one has some issues going on that we are trying to figure out with vet of course. The other I need boots for and a diet tweak but it's bugging the crap out of me. But they needed to be comfortable so I did what I had to do for the moment.

But I'm so happy on the roads with Heidi and with all her work really. This made had the hardest neck ever. It wasn't cresty, just hard. Now, soft and she's more relaxed throughout her body. I had 3 different lameness exams for her and always never anything conclusive including her feet and IR tests. More of a well flat feet and thin soles(X-ray), keep her shod. When the word wedges was mentioned my farrier said take those shoes off and see how we go.

So to me I do worry about slightly footy and am thinking beyond more than shoes.

Terri
 
badgermyers said:
Hang on so you are wanting horses to be as natural as possible copeing without shoes. Then you restrict their natural forgae, grass? Im not sure all natural/wild horses have balanced minerals either. Domestic horses and wild horses are genetically different....deal with it
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Where is there any need for the natural debate and the shoeing debate to be tangled up there's nothing natural about a lot go the grazing horses are on in the modern world, domestic horses are a man made tool , I don't understand your deal with it comment .
I feel you have a preconception of what BF people are like I restrict my horses grass in summer because they are working I don't like them fat and I hate seeing them in the flies in winter they are resticted because I stable at night I work and train my horses because I enjoy doing it I shortly I hope get back to completing the horses here are kept as they would be on a good competion training yard that's nothing to do with BF at all.
It might be part of why I can get BF to work it not be who knows.
 
badgermyers said:
Hang on so you are wanting horses to be as natural as possible copeing without shoes. Then you restrict their natural forgae, grass? Im not sure all natural/wild horses have balanced minerals either. Domestic horses and wild horses are genetically different....deal with it
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Welll....my purebred arab and my highland are not genetically mutated. Not getting your point:confused:

'Wild' horses don't graze in paddocks...they have scant grass...most roam on moorlands/mountains/forests, not fertilised paddocks. They are not vaccinated or wormed either, both of which can upset gastric balance and cause a horse to be footy......

My horses don't have shoes because I do believe its a more naturanl way for them to be, they are more footsure, move freer. However, the fact that they are paddock kept , in at night, wormed and vaccinated means I have to take care with their diet etc to compensate.....

Deal with that.
 
you could also go through some of my old posts and see what a barefoot trimmer didi to my boy... wonder way shes being taken to court?.. not by me by the way... yet!
 
Hippona said:
Welll....my purebred arab and my highland are not genetically mutated. Not getting your point:confused:

'Wild' horses don't graze in paddocks...they have scant grass...most roam on moorlands/mountains/forests, not fertilised paddocks. They are not vaccinated or wormed either, both of which can upset gastric balance and cause a horse to be footy......

My horses don't have shoes because I do believe its a more naturanl way for them to be, they are more footsure, move freer. However, the fact that they are paddock kept , in at night, wormed and vaccinated means I have to take care with their diet etc to compensate.....

Deal with that.
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The highland is more true to a wild horse, yes. The arab, used to sand abrasion not roads ect. Arabs are bred to cope with their environment so yes if you are on sand fine, on roads all the time....not so much.

I have studied equine behaviour I know how wild horses graze. I also study equine anatomy, performance and injury. I am not taking with no back up..
 
Hippona said:
Actually...not all humans wear shoes.

And if we didn't then we would get thick hard calloused skin for protection....

We only wears shoes because custom dictates....we are capable of NOT wearing them....
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Do you wear shoes? If you can cope why wear them? I dont want calloused feet, that become sore walking round on tarmac. Yes tribes are barefoot but they dont walk on roads and concrete. Different surfaces have different effects. Shoes were inventive for both human and horse for a reason afterall
 
tango'smum said:
you could also go through some of my old posts and see what a barefoot trimmer didi to my boy... wonder way shes being taken to court?.. not by me by the way... yet!
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I am really sorry you have had a bad time . I canot remember reading any of your threads but after a year I don't think anyone would say you are not right to put shoes on an uncomfortable horse.
 
My 6 year old, who has the most fabulous hard feet, just saved me £60 this morning. How about that for a happy BF post - my farrier declined to shoe him on the basis of his feet looking so good.

My old mare is crippled without shoes, I may have another try at BF her when she is doing less work, but for her comfort she cost me £60 this morning!!!
 
I'm another with a sound barefoot horse who was going lame this time last year. Much as I hate to rock the boat here ;) I'm afraid he does an awful lot of roadwork without any issues, tarmac being one of the surfaces that became comfortable to him quite early on.

TM I'm so sorry to hear you've had problems, and certainly nobody in favour of barefoot is going to want you to keep going if your horse is struggling. You can only do your best, whether that's shoes or not.

BM do you mind my asking why you're doing a barefoot study, as in what context? I only ask because speaking to Nic at Rockley last week she's more than happy to talk to or meet with any vet students etc who want to know more about what she does, so could potentially be a useful contact for you.
 
badgermyers said:
The highland is more true to a wild horse, yes. The arab, used to sand abrasion not roads ect. Arabs are bred to cope with their environment so yes if you are on sand fine, on roads all the time....not so much.

I have studied equine behaviour I know how wild horses graze. I also study equine anatomy, performance and injury. I am not taking with no back up..
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I do plenty of road work with my arab.

He is fine thankyou.....he has never had shoes on....

My point about humans and shoes....we are not born with them on. Plenty of the worlds population does not wear shoes....they are not a necessity....
As I said...custom dictates. I doubt my boss would be happy with me wandering around barefoot. Car insurance would be invalid if I didn't wear appropriate footwear....all reasons why we do wear shoes....but we could easily not wear them :)
 
badgermyers said:
Arabs are bred to cope with their environment so yes if you are on sand fine, on roads all the time....not so much.
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So an Arab will struggle to cope with an environment other than the desert? Is this in general or just it's feet? Funny cos I seem to know more hardy Arabs than other breeds, inc a couple living barefoot in Scotland (it doesnt get much less desert like than that!) who seem to cope with life rather well, including hacking on roads... <shock>

I have to say, I don't know where you studied or what your back ground is but I suggest you get out in the big wide horsey world and start looking at things closely and asking questions. Horses don't read text books to know how they 'should' live, they react to the situations we put them in. There is nothing in this world that can prove you wrong more than a horse... :)
 
Apologies for being really thick here but does "barefoot" simply mean not wearing shoes? Mine have been without shoes for a while now (new baby etc) and are all absolutely fine - they all have naturally really good, hard feet anyway, but I'm not bothering with shoes again until they need them for whatever reason

Sorry does this make me barbaric?
 
I'm actually having a problem with one of mine. 5yr old, never been shod, no special requirements, beautiful concave little feet that self trim a lot. However the darker nights, & thus less roadwork, mean that in 6wks when farrier back out, she'll need a trim for the first time since spring. Where am I going wrong lol?
 
Dont worry i am very much in the horsey world. Own yard, teach, compete ect. Its all from my uni. Im not saying all horses. I am just saying in a general sense. Very general. As i cant talk for all individuals. I know plenty of barefoot and shod horses. Anyway my study is through uni and is my dissertation. Its just interesting thats all.
 
badgermyers said:
I dont want calloused feet, that become sore walking round on tarmac.
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Oh for goodness sake BM I went to school with a girl who had never worn shoes. She walked 3 miles to school and 3 miles back on tarmac. If we never wore shoes, we would never need shoes.

Your arguments really are wearing a bit thin now!
 
badgermyers said:
The highland is more true to a wild horse, yes. The arab, used to sand abrasion not roads ect. Arabs are bred to cope with their environment so yes if you are on sand fine, on roads all the time....not so much.

I have studied equine behaviour I know how wild horses graze. I also study equine anatomy, performance and injury. I am not talking with no back up..
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You are talking about something you know precious little about if you think Arabs can't do road work. That's so wrong it's laughable.

I would suggest that you start listening to what some of the people on this forum achieve with horses that the "experts" have written off, and a little less to the received wisdom that you are getting through your Uni course.
 
Er might I point out that horses have hard hooves made of horn and no muscles below the knee so comparisons with humans are tenuous in the extreme.
However we don't realt know what humans in our enviroment could do without shoes if conditioned to do so it we would however get very cold because of our muscle mass lower down which is not an issue for horses below the knee as long as they are moving .
We are like modern horses the product of our enviroment to .
Weak and fallen arches ,plantar fasciitis , are all things that could you could argue be things that could be prevented by exercising the feet without shoes over different surfaces regularly .
 
badgermyers said:
Dont worry i am very much in the horsey world. Own yard, teach, compete ect. Its all from my uni. Im not saying all horses. I am just saying in a general sense. Very general. As i cant talk for all individuals. I know plenty of barefoot and shod horses. Anyway my study is through uni and is my dissertation. Its just interesting thats all.
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whoever said research is not for you is correct,unless you learn that you cannot possibly produce anything worthwhile if you go in with an agenda-whether is pro or anti barefoot.It can be difficult for someone coming into education/research after gaining experience in the real world, to be prepared to be totally objective.
 
peteralfred said:
whoever said research is not for you is correct,unless you learn that you cannot possibly produce anything worthwhile if you go in with an agenda-whether is pro or anti barefoot.It can be difficult for someone coming into education/research after gaining experience in the real world, to be prepared to be totally objective.
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x 2

That comment about arabs and sand made me laugh so hard I got tea coming out of my nose. BM Clearly has no idea about horses who do endurance races across hundreds of km's on sand, rock, tarmac, gravel etc :rolleyes:

Her paper is going to be absolute twaddle as it will be under researched (h+h does not count as research) and very biased.
 
badgermyers said:
Dont worry i am very much in the horsey world. Own yard, teach, compete ect. Its all from my uni. Im not saying all horses. I am just saying in a general sense. Very general. As i cant talk for all individuals. I know plenty of barefoot and shod horses. Anyway my study is through uni and is my dissertation. Its just interesting thats all.
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Genuinely I think if this is for a proper university project I think you need to take a properly objective approach.

Your responses are all very prejudiced - which is not a scientific approach.

On a side note, a lot of horses are worked mainly on a surface these days, rather than doing much road work.
 
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