Beautiful story about horses saved from BURGERS

It is not the law yet that all dogs have to be microchipped and licensed no, microchipping is supposedly coming in in 2016, but yet again it will be the responsible owners who chip. I'm not sure what the fine is for dogs not have a collar and id disc, but I can't imagine it is particularly hefty. Also you cannot really compare the £15 for a dogs microchip with the several hundred for pts by injection for a horse.

ETS Just checked and the maximum fine is £5000 for the second time a dog is found without an id tag, but I very much doubt if this is ever implemented, far more likely an owner will deny all knowledge of the dog being theirs.
 
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no dogs dont yet have to be microchipped dont have a license and although they should have a collar and id disk many dont so that wouldnt work. No you cant legislate for those that would openly flout the law the only people likely to comply are those that have already made those sort of arrangements. We need more well supervised abattoirs not fewer and or we need the free gelding in the same way charities neuter or we need a huge and prohibitive fine for anyone breeding more than one horse or we need grading of all breeding stock including tbs so no more bad conformation breeding can carry on
All pie in the sky ideas as again the only people to comply will be the good caring
Free PTS and disposal would of course be ideal then all would have a PTS at home option but again who would pay
 
Dab said:
I agree with FionaM12's comments in relation to this post but lets just say this Law was introduced, it is almost certain that the responsible horse owners who would generally do the right thing about PTS would get the insurance but the 'horse hoarders' of this world won't bother...

but my main point would be what happens to the horse if the owner doesnt take out the insurance? also many owners would just not want to compile with the Law at its introduction, or couldnt afford to do so, this would result in 1000's of horses flooding the market, the slaughter houses would be over run, horses would be dumped and abondoned or end up on wagons heading to europe...it would be a horse massacre!
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It's always the way that only the responsible comply with such laws.

Can't help but agree with the rest of your post too :eek:

horserider said:
Why is having the euthanasia and disposal of every horse prepaid so difficult ?
Is it not law that all dogs need to be microchipped, licensed and wear a collar with the owners name and address on it or face a very hefty fine ?

Landlords have to protect a holding deposit paid by a new tenant, so why, would a scheme to guarantee the humane disposal of a horse be such a fantasy ?

As abandoned horses and strays become an increasingly expensive problem for councils and the irresponsible breeding continues, particularly in the racing industry- (who, incidentally could afford to plough a minute percentage of their profits back into funding racehorse retraining programmes-), the issue of what to do with unwanted horses is a social problem that should be paid for by the equestrian community, not tax payers.

Support the horse meat industry if you want, but allow the animal to have a humane and peaceful death first.
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I think you hugely over-estimate how concerned the voters of this country are about horse welfare. :o

The changes in the law regarding dogs has only just been announced. I'm not holding my breath about how effective or enforcable it will be. It's very likely that the irresponsible and uncaring owners will just ignore it.
 
horserider said:
... the irresponsible breeding continues, particularly in the racing industry- (who, incidentally could afford to plough a minute percentage of their profits back into funding racehorse retraining programmes-), the issue of what to do with unwanted horses is a social problem that should be paid for by the equestrian community, not tax payers.

.....
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i would just like to point out that Racing is taking this sitution seriously... In the past five years the number of thoroughbred foals registered annually has decreased by 28.6% — from 5,920 in 2008 to 4,366 in 2012...they do put money into the RoR who then distribute to the Retraining/Rehoming centres. maybe they still don't do enough but it has improved hugely over the past 10 years and they are making a difference.
 
Crazy horse lady said:
:confused:. I can't believe some of the comments on here, considering you lot are horse lovers? There is no need to send horses to a vile and inconsiderate death in an abattoir. Its totally unnecessary and CRUEL. put your horse to sleep at home. And for goodness sake, of course she does not have the pony living in her living room. The article is for publicity. How boring would the article have been if it did not show the ponynin the house!!
She should be commended for what she has done! And btw you synics, out of the 10 that have been saved from death, most have been re-homed already ;)
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Assume you are a vegan?

Can you explain how it is a vile and inconsiderate death? I've never known of one not done very quickly and professionally on a personal level. However I've seen lots of live horses who would have been better off with a quick bullet, than left in a lounge with plenty of more dangerous items to wound or kill painfully, or left suffering elsewhere.
 
PandorasJar said:
Assume you are a vegan?
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Good point. Also never wear a leather coat or shoes, or use leather tack?

Well, if it's "cruel" to send horses to the slaughterhouse, it must be surely be equally cruel to do the same to cows, pigs, sheep, chickens etc.

They should all be pts at home, in fact every farmer should have every animal on his land insured by law to cover their dignified end at the hands of a vet. ;)

Not realistic? :p No, it isn't, is it? ;)
 
MurphysMinder said:
It is not the law yet that all dogs have to be microchipped and licensed no, microchipping is supposedly coming in in 2016, but yet again it will be the responsible owners who chip. I'm not sure what the fine is for dogs not have a collar and id disc, but I can't imagine it is particularly hefty. Also you cannot really compare the £15 for a dogs microchip with the several hundred for pts by injection for a horse.

ETS Just checked and the maximum fine is £5000 for the second time a dog is found without an id tag, but I very much doubt if this is ever implemented, far more likely an owner will deny all knowledge of the dog being theirs.
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Once again MurphysMinder you have hit nail right on head! All lawful people, licence their dogs, insure and tax their cars, pay their bills, other people do not insure their cars etc etc and usually get away with it. The lawful will do whatever the government says and legislates for, the "others" will just do their own thing. Nothing will change. Just one point though, in Northern Ireland we have a licencing system, and one thing it means is that if you happen to forget to relicence your dog, and it is still with you in body and mind, they will be getting in touch to say, your licence has run out, if you do not relicence the fine will be £50 paid now or £75 when we take you to court. There have been several cases in my local paper of people actually appearing in court!!!!!!!!!
 
Stupid woman. Obviously she cant afford them! They are better being put out of their misery here in the UK than shipped to France still alive and exausted
 
I think there is a difference between livestock and horses though. Who has looked after a single cow, spent months trying to win its trust and co operation during backing and training ?
Who has reassured that flight animal that you are not a predator and want to look after its best interests in return for its work ?


How many of those ponies waiting day after day in a pen at the abattoir with other unknown,old/lame/frightened/aggressive horses joining it - How many of those ponies remember the days when a little girl hugged it tightly and promised to love it forever ?
How many of those lame, old horses had owners who agonised about what rug it should wear, what supplements were best ?
How many of those race horses were once well fed, well cared for by devoted grooms now stand bewildered in the cold, no longer having anyone to care that during their last days they are unrugged and cold ?
Who cares if during their final days they are kicked or bitten or chased of the hay and water ?

At least farmers are honest with their livestock. They are never promised that they will be loved, be someone's best friend or admired athlete during their glory days.

Our abattoirs are a disgrace and if our horses cannot find allies on a horse forum, then perhaps attitudes have changed in these modern times. Since horses are no longer essential for transport and farming etc and horse thieves are no longer hung but receive a slap on the wrist at a magistrates court.( Not that I'm advocating hanging anyone.)
Horses once seen as noble are now merely disposable.
 
horserider said:
I think there is a difference between livestock and horses though. Who has looked after a single cow, spent months trying to win its trust and co operation during backing and training ?
Who has reassured that flight animal that you are not a predator and want to look after its best interests in return for its work ?


How many of those ponies waiting day after day in a pen at the abattoir with other unknown,old/lame/frightened/aggressive horses joining it - How many of those ponies remember the days when a little girl hugged it tightly and promised to love it forever ?
How many of those lame, old horses had owners who agonised about what rug it should wear, what supplements were best ?
How many of those race horses were once well fed, well cared for by devoted grooms now stand bewildered in the cold, no longer having anyone to care that during their last days they are unrugged and cold ?
Who cares if during their final days they are kicked or bitten or chased of the hay and water ?

At least farmers are honest with their livestock. They are never promised that they will be loved, be someone's best friend or admired athlete during their glory days.

Our abattoirs are a disgrace and if our horses cannot find allies on a horse forum, then perhaps attitudes have changed in these modern times. Since horses are no longer essential for transport and farming etc and horse thieves are no longer hung but receive a slap on the wrist at a magistrates court.( Not that I'm advocating hanging anyone.)
Horses once seen as noble are now merely disposable.
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What utter Tosh!!
 
MurphysMinder said:
It is not the law yet that all dogs have to be microchipped and licensed no, microchipping is supposedly coming in in 2016, but yet again it will be the responsible owners who chip. I'm not sure what the fine is for dogs not have a collar and id disc, but I can't imagine it is particularly hefty. Also you cannot really compare the £15 for a dogs microchip with the several hundred for pts by injection for a horse.

ETS Just checked and the maximum fine is £5000 for the second time a dog is found without an id tag, but I very much doubt if this is ever implemented, far more likely an owner will deny all knowledge of the dog being theirs.
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I did not know this about the collar and ID tag. All four of my dogs are microchipped, but the two chihuahua sized JRTs do not wear collars, They are forever going down rabbit holes and the risk is far too great that they may get caught on a tree root under ground, or strangled. They wore them as puppies until the day we came home to find one with her jaw caught and twisted in her sister's collar and her sister unconscious! She was seconds away from dying. Thankfully she was ok. But these two will never wear collars. They wear a harness when on the lead.
 
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What's even more irritating are the comments that the ignorant public have left at the end of the story. The majority are in full support of this stupid woman....
 
mhorses said:
well there will be someone... i know quite a few people who have too much land as farmers are making cut and have fewer livestock... she says she hopes to set up a sanctuary so at least there will be land available close by and people will volunteer, I know that for sure. A local sanctuary has got 300 people volunteering to help.
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Lets hope all the volunteers are prepared to pay for the horses, I could buy ten ponies @ £150 each tomorrow, I just cant afford to keep one properly ................ @ £50 per week plus £500 per year for the vet, and £150 for the farrier, £500 if shod. Decent tack is £300 minimum, and £100 for rugs.
Since giving up my pony , I don't need to buy my own Ariat boots and specialist clothing, which is another £250-300 saved per annum.

P.S. Better to campaign for the slaughterhouse to comply with UK regulation so that those who end up there are treated humanely rather than keeping a rather nice young pony in your living room, which is far from ideal.

P.P.S. I have nothing against eating horsemeat, but if the meat is not labelled as such, sourced hygenically and ethically then we are being de-frauded, and of course there are some people who would not eat horses, though for some reason they eat other meats, and eggs, and so on. I avoid all processed food, as it is usually stuffed full of cheap ingredients, I do buy occasional burghers which are fresh minced steak, and recogniseable as such. I don't buy meatballs or ready made frozen foods.

P.P.P.S. for my sins I used to work for a local authority who employ meat inspectors............ and I believe they had their tea breaks when the local meat processors cattle went through ......... that is why I don't buy processed meat!
 
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horserider said:
I think there is a difference between livestock and horses though. Who has looked after a single cow, spent months trying to win its trust and co operation during backing and training ?
Who has reassured that flight animal that you are not a predator and want to look after its best interests in return for its work ?


How many of those ponies waiting day after day in a pen at the abattoir with other unknown,old/lame/frightened/aggressive horses joining it - How many of those ponies remember the days when a little girl hugged it tightly and promised to love it forever ?
How many of those lame, old horses had owners who agonised about what rug it should wear, what supplements were best ?
How many of those race horses were once well fed, well cared for by devoted grooms now stand bewildered in the cold, no longer having anyone to care that during their last days they are unrugged and cold ?
Who cares if during their final days they are kicked or bitten or chased of the hay and water ?

At least farmers are honest with their livestock. They are never promised that they will be loved, be someone's best friend or admired athlete during their glory days.

Our abattoirs are a disgrace and if our horses cannot find allies on a horse forum, then perhaps attitudes have changed in these modern times. Since horses are no longer essential for transport and farming etc and horse thieves are no longer hung but receive a slap on the wrist at a magistrates court.( Not that I'm advocating hanging anyone.)
Horses once seen as noble are now merely disposable.
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I actually know someone who has backed a cow...
I have goats as pets and several other farm animals (a sheep, pigs etc). These do not go for meat, the rest do though and all live together, neither would my horses, but I don't see the issue with those that do. I have an issue with sold off in poor condition and travelled out, but none in a swift ending, which it is.

Our abattoirs are not all a disgrace. Last time OHs dad used one (recently) he had a few horses. Walked one off the lorry, straight into a clean room and dropped in seconds, no worry. By the time he'd walked the second into the room it was spotless and again done in seconds.

Vastly different to hunts and vets which I've seen good but also known of appalling - as I've written about recently on a similar thread.

I also think that if you are condoning poor farming conditions, to make the ending easier then that is appalling. Our farm lot are treated very well and end very quickly. I certainly wouldn't treat them appallingly becasue they are meat and would worry about anyone who thinks that is acceptable to keep any animal in poor conditions for any length of time.
 
"Another was a pregnant foal with another foal alongside her."
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Who writes this rubbish :o And she obviously doesn't keep the pony in the house. Media nonsense.

I digress. It's up to her what she does with her money and I guess for those ponies she has bought it's a good thing. In the overall scheme of things it makes little difference and has no impact on the amount of horses/ponies going to the meatman. He will still get his quota. She obviously needs money and help with the ponies she buys otherwise why all the media attention. People who quietly go about their business and take on horses in need, funding them themselves, rank far higher in my opinion.
 
PandorasJar said:
I also think that if you are condoning poor farming conditions, to make the ending easier then that is appalling. Our farm lot are treated very well and end very quickly. I certainly wouldn't treat them appallingly becasue they are meat and would worry about anyone who thinks that is acceptable to keep any animal in poor conditions for any length of time.
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Where did you get that impression from ? I can't see that interpretation in my post particularly I know some excellent farmers for whom I have nothing but respect.
 
I reckon some of the dairy farmers I know are closer to their cows than I am my horse ;). and that plenty of horses/ponies never have the promise of someone loving them forever either :rolleyes:.

Fwiw our abattoirs are certainly not a disgrace for the most part either, horse or otherwise.
 
Dab said:
CHL why do you keep bleating on about 'putting your horse to sleep at home'? the horses that were 'saved' came from a sale...you might as well be saying don't take your horse to a sale!

For goodness sake we are nowhere near a situation where all people will put their horses to sleep at home, and what happens to the ones that don't have a home? What you are suggesting in shutting down an abottoir is plain madness. Target the back yard breeders, breeders of low quality horses and people putting their horses through low end sales.

Shutting down an abottoir will consign 100's more horses to transport to europe to be slaughtered....which is a horrific thought...more local abottoirs are needed with proper welfare checks in place.
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^^^^this!!!^^^
 
Seriously the people on that Group are a bit bonkers...they are campaigning to close the Red Lion Abottoir (fair point if the welfare issues have been ongoing and never improved)...but close it for good with out an alternative planned for the area, and their ultimate goal is to close all equine slaughter houses with out addressing the 'bigger picture'.

These people do not have equine welfare interests at the heart of their campaign at all, they will not tolerate debate on the pro's and con's associated with their campaign.....it is worrying to think they would prefer a US type approach and UK horses to be exported live across 1000's of miles to slaughter houses that would make the Red Lion looks like a santuary...
 
Oh thank God it's not just me I put a comment on saying what a stupid woman she was and how long would it be before those ponies need rescuing and how rescuing 8 ponies won't make a different etc etc and I'm now on about a million minus red arrows lol.
 
horserider said:
I think there is a difference between livestock and horses though. Who has looked after a single cow, spent months trying to win its trust and co operation during backing and training ?
Who has reassured that flight animal that you are not a predator and want to look after its best interests in return for its work ?


How many of those ponies waiting day after day in a pen at the abattoir with other unknown,old/lame/frightened/aggressive horses joining it - How many of those ponies remember the days when a little girl hugged it tightly and promised to love it forever ?
How many of those lame, old horses had owners who agonised about what rug it should wear, what supplements were best ?
How many of those race horses were once well fed, well cared for by devoted grooms now stand bewildered in the cold, no longer having anyone to care that during their last days they are unrugged and cold ?
Who cares if during their final days they are kicked or bitten or chased of the hay and water ?

At least farmers are honest with their livestock. They are never promised that they will be loved, be someone's best friend or admired athlete during their glory days.

Our abattoirs are a disgrace and if our horses cannot find allies on a horse forum, then perhaps attitudes have changed in these modern times. Since horses are no longer essential for transport and farming etc and horse thieves are no longer hung but receive a slap on the wrist at a magistrates court.( Not that I'm advocating hanging anyone.)
Horses once seen as noble are now merely disposable.
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I'm sorry but now you're being a bit silly.

Cruelty has nothing to do with whether we treasure and cuddle a species. Cruelty is the mistreatment of animals, regardless of whether we spend ages bonding with them. :D What you are talking about is sentiment.

Do you honestly believe a horse knows when it has been "promised that they will be loved"?

And horses once seen as noble? Really? Have you ever spent any time reading about how horses have been treated throughout history? Do you think all those horses pulling taxis, drays and ploughs always lead a "noble" existence? And noblest of all were the horses who carried our brave men and machinery to war. And at the end were often eaten.

I believe we should respect life and treat all animals with compassion and decency. That includes farm animals, and wild creatures just as much as horses. I'm actually more concerned about how the endangered species, like tigers and rhinos are being treated than horses in fact, as they are dying out. :(

Of course, I'm totally sentimental about my Mollie. My choice, and I actually have promised her she's here to stay, no more being passed around. But I don't kid myself that she understands. :D
 
horserider said:
How about every horse being required by law to have an insurance policy that was to cover euthanasia and disposal ? The policy would be transferred with the equine to each owner so that all horses could be PTS in their own home or a designed place of safety such as an equine hospital or charity unless it was an emergency.

That sounds fine in principal, but, for instance, when I had my oldie (32) pts this year, my insurance policy did not cover it, she had colic and at that age, all they will cover is accidental injury. The other flaw is that responsible owners would comply and the irresponsible would not, just like passports

Those owners who wished their horse, after death, to be used for the meat industry could not profit from the sale but instead the cash would go to funding a data base and policing the system.

Again, this would only affect the responsible owners, the hill farmers for instance don't even have to microchip and passport theirs, they are not likely to agree to this either, although it could go some way to stopping the morons breeding more

It would raise the purchase price of horses and breeders would have the initial outlay but is that a bad thing ? You can't drive a car or motorbike without a big outlay in insurance and tax, renting a property requires a big deposit and many people invest in funeral plans for their own burial, so why not protect the future of horses and make breeders/horse owners take responsibility.
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I see where you are coming from but still think that the real problem is indiscriminate breeding, the majority of horse owners have their horses pts at home, a small minority do not for whatever reason but the vast majority of horses going through slaughterhouses are racehorses and those bought at meat markets.
 
Dab said:
Seriously the people on that Group are a bit bonkers...they are campaigning to close the Red Lion Abottoir (fair point if the welfare issues have been ongoing and never improved)...but close it for good with out an alternative planned for the area, and their ultimate goal is to close all equine slaughter houses with out addressing the 'bigger picture'.

These people do not have equine welfare interests at the heart of their campaign at all, they will not tolerate debate on the pro's and con's associated with their campaign.....it is worrying to think they would prefer a US type approach and UK horses to be exported live across 1000's of miles to slaughter houses that would make the Red Lion looks like a santuary...
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Idiots - all of them, they have no thought for the welfare of the horses, and one of them at least is on a massive ego trip, when asked what was the alternative to slaughter for these poor horses they said 'it is not our problem, we just want the abatoir closed' and after that they want to ban horse slaughter. Horse lovers my backside!

The woman in question has absolutely no experience with horses, neither does her completely bonkers sister, they breed dogs - to sell. As for the railway worker, he has no experience with horses either.

I received a pm from another member in the group saying that this moronic woman is keeping 8 rescue horses on 1 acre, she has one stable which currently houses 1 2yo colt and a mare and foal. I repeat, idiots the lot of them.
 
It's like a crank a minute! Lets hope they get as much publicity when it all goes wrong and then it will warn off all the other cranks from following suit.
 
Amaranta totally agree with you.

I'm just hoping that the 1700 or so people who have joined the Group are just observing, so they like me, they can keep an eye on these 'good intentions'...and they do not support the over all intention of the campaign.

What with this and the horse hoarder, and the 'rescue centre' that sells its charges, i'm getting more than a little concerned about the mentality of far too many people who support these ill intended campaigns to ban, support and rescue horses without considering the longterm affect!!! There are so many great equine charities out there who are struggling for backing and support but do 1000% more good for the welfare of horses in the long run....:(:(:(
 
Dab said:
Seriously the people on that Group are a bit bonkers...they are campaigning to close the Red Lion Abottoir (fair point if the welfare issues have been ongoing and never improved)...but close it for good with out an alternative planned for the area, and their ultimate goal is to close all equine slaughter houses with out addressing the 'bigger picture'.

These people do not have equine welfare interests at the heart of their campaign at all, they will not tolerate debate on the pro's and con's associated with their campaign.....it is worrying to think they would prefer a US type approach and UK horses to be exported live across 1000's of miles to slaughter houses that would make the Red Lion looks like a santuary...
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only a bit bonkers??!! stark raving ego fuelled batpoop bonkers i think is a more apt description:D
 
HR I can't quote on my post but from the point of who cares if kicked and beaten - apologies if I misread but i read that as being that as long as they were continually treated poorly then it was okay as they knew no different. As farm animals don't mean anything to anyone.

Our lot all have names, some random, some based on personality (fat sheep, nutter, even have the b.tch :o) all are walked through the abbatoir with us and know nothing bad before they're down.
I have no problem doing the same with a horse who I knew was ending that way. It would be by my side til the end.
 
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