Beautiful story about horses saved from BURGERS

I have to say I am sickened to read horseriders diatribe on this matter. To suggest that responsible horse owners should pay for the destruction of the horses of irresponsible owners, rather than 'tax payers', is both ludicrous and something of a redundant argument, as most horse owners are tax payers. To insist that horse owners have some form of insurance to pay for the destruction of the horse is naive, at best. Insurance is for something that may happen, whereas I am sure that we are all aware that all horses are mortal, and so will have to be destroyed at some point. I also doubt that horses are at all aware of being promised anything. Some people treat horses as livestock, shock horror, not all horses are pets to be doted on. I have no intention of a vet ending my mares life, but she will die at home, at the gun of an excellent knackerwoman, who was trained by her father who had a horse abbatoir. The abbatoir was closed when the EU brought in such stringent rules that the cost of upgrading the facilities was prohibitive and we lost a lot of good local abbatoirs, that were run by people who knew about and understood horses. I would rather that local abbatoirs were re-opened , thus reducing the traveling times of horses destined for slaughter.
 
YorksG said:
I have to say I am sickened to read horseriders diatribe on this matter. To suggest that responsible horse owners should pay for the destruction of the horses of irresponsible owners, rather than 'tax payers', is both ludicrous and something of a redundant argument, as most horse owners are tax payers. To insist that horse owners have some form of insurance to pay for the destruction of the horse is naive, at best. Insurance is for something that may happen, whereas I am sure that we are all aware that all horses are mortal, and so will have to be destroyed at some point. I also doubt that horses are at all aware of being promised anything. Some people treat horses as livestock, shock horror, not all horses are pets to be doted on. I have no intention of a vet ending my mares life, but she will die at home, at the gun of an excellent knackerwoman, who was trained by her father who had a horse abbatoir. The abbatoir was closed when the EU brought in such stringent rules that the cost of upgrading the facilities was prohibitive and we lost a lot of good local abbatoirs, that were run by people who knew about and understood horses. I would rather that local abbatoirs were re-opened , thus reducing the traveling times of horses destined for slaughter.
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We really need a "like" button.
 
Unfortunately there is still a need for abbatoirs, but this need would surely be reduced if the indiscriminate breeding of poor quality horses stopped. I know there will always be a need for the abbatoirs, but FGS stop breeding badly put together horses out of mares with unknown breeding who has been jumped on by the local "cover all" stallion.

I know someone considering putting a mare in foal at the moment - unknown breeding, nothing special to look at, very average riding horse - done a bit of everything at a VERY basic level - never actually won anything and rarely even placed. I want to scream "WHY?" If you want a bloomin' foal there are thousands out there but please don't breed another who will be no better than the horse it's come out of! And the reason for putting it in foal? The owner doesn't have time for it.......make of that what you will....
 
DB. A family breeder used to have top mares... And one Heinz. Everything out of the Heinz was palomino, nice build and height and would be sold with a waiting list. Conformation was good and is now retired but breeding and riding isn't always necessary.
Another family member breeds IDs. You'll spot a lot of their offspring in h&h with varied levels of breeding known. They all sell as they have a good temperament, good conformation and good ridden. hed not touch anything with fantastic bloodlines that was poor quality though.
 
i thought that when the new animal welfare act came in 2007, that horses had to have a safe field and suitable housing, meaning barn field shelter or stable and their needs should be met, i didn't realise that i had to supply my ponies with a tv, sofa airer for wet rugs.
so all i can say is sorry girls i let you down!!
 
Dab said:
Seriously the people on that Group are a bit bonkers...they are campaigning to close the Red Lion Abottoir (fair point if the welfare issues have been ongoing and never improved)...but close it for good with out an alternative planned for the area, and their ultimate goal is to close all equine slaughter houses with out addressing the 'bigger picture'.

These people do not have equine welfare interests at the heart of their campaign at all, they will not tolerate debate on the pro's and con's associated with their campaign.....it is worrying to think they would prefer a US type approach and UK horses to be exported live across 1000's of miles to slaughter houses that would make the Red Lion looks like a santuary...
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I did not see the Channel Four documentary last night but from another thread I understand that the treatment of horses at Red Lion was very upsetting to viewers.

I have been trying to find an article which was originally printed on the Southern Cleveland Bay Website - from Horsey Talk - which actually explains graphically why abattoirs even well run ones are 'hell' for horses.

Of course it is not true to say that poorly bred horses are the only ones to meet this fate. A large number of ex-track racehorses go for meat.

I think if you can keep a race horse in training your pockets should be deep enough to pay for the horse to be pts at home.
 
Crazy horse lady said:
I am so shocked by such nasty comments and personal attacks on this lady. It's the people who breed and breed to find the perfect show horse or pony who you should critise! It's the people who buy and sell for what ever reason, who contribute to the over population of horses who you should attack. Its the irresponsible owners who do not geld their horses, who you should attack....if you see the fb page they know there is a need for abattoirs, they want them manned and have CCTV installed, they are promoting for horses to be put to sleep at home. Yes these animals she saved are not as posh as some, a few of them are actually "show" ponies. Did you know that?? Some of them did have horrible lives before she rescued them, at Lear now they will have a nice life, and with time, love and care the unruly ones (if there are any) will prosper:p
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You say they know there is a need for abattoirs, yet this paragraph is at the top of the group

Members of this group, please be aware that due to some small complaints off people thinking the group name is misleading we would like to clarify that this group is intended to gain members in support of SHUTTING DOWN RED LION, NANTWICH. We call to have the abattoir closed for good. Mr. T has had his second, third and fourth chance to sort his mess out but hasn't and these terrible events keep coming into light so this time we will not allow him to proceed. I know we all have differing opinions but seem to want the same common result from this. Any questions or concerns should be sent to an admin directly please. This saves any upset/arguements on the groups main page. Thank you!
 
Rollin said:
I did not see the Channel Four documentary last night but from another thread I understand that the treatment of horses at Red Lion was very upsetting to viewers.

I have been trying to find an article which was originally printed on the Southern Cleveland Bay Website - from Horsey Talk - which actually explains graphically why abattoirs even well run ones are 'hell' for horses.

Of course it is not true to say that poorly bred horses are the only ones to meet this fate. A large number of ex-track racehorses go for meat.

I think if you can keep a race horse in training your pockets should be deep enough to pay for the horse to be pts at home.
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Please see my earlier post regarding Racer horses.

With regards to abottoirs, I don't think there are many/if any people who are saying they are 'nice' places, but done quickly and done right (as with all dispatched animals) it is a better fate than starvation, dumped, or neglect...

The abuse shown at Red Lion needs to be addressed and stopped, and nobody is denying that either...so what is your point?
 
yes but if you contact admin I bet you get no joy!

I dont think that an abbatoir is going to be anything but a fairlly terrifying one for a horse but it is
a)necessary as there are more horses than homes (and a market for horse meat)
b)better than travelling across the continent to then met he same fate after a horrific journey

also what other cases are the cranks wittering on about? do they really think they will gain anything from this?
horse slaughter will not stop- simples
at least if it happens here we can regulate it and avoid horrific journeys for the horses
as for racehorse its simply an industry- money paid for slaughter rather than charged
 
widget said:
yes but if you contact admin I bet you get no joy!

I dont think that an abbatoir is going to be anything but a fairlly terrifying one for a horse but it is
a)necessary as there are more horses than homes (and a market for horse meat)
b)better than travelling across the continent to then met he same fate after a horrific journey

also what other cases are the cranks wittering on about? do they really think they will gain anything from this?
horse slaughter will not stop- simples
at least if it happens here we can regulate it and avoid horrific journeys for the horses
as for racehorse its simply an industry- money paid for slaughter rather than charged
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But good old UK is not regulating these places is it? It needs under cover filming to show what really goes on. THAT is my point. Nor is good old UK regulating the export of horses unfit to travel as was exposed by USPCA where horses were exported via UK.

We talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
 
The FB page and CAPS LOCK petition can be summed up like this:

picture.php


Which doesn't really give a solution that is workable in any practical way.

Yes, in an ideal world, every horse would have a loving home for life and would be PTS peacefully at home.

Sadly we don't live in an ideal world, so we need the most practical solution that we can provide; without costing either the tax payer, or general horse owning population more money. The solution also has to be financially self-sustaining, to allow it to continue long term.

If anyone can come up with anything other than abbatoirs, you are doing better than me!
 
widget said:
I dont think that an abbatoir is going to be anything but a fairlly terrifying one for a horse
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Why?

I've been to abbatoirs nothing like the poor instances shown and family regularly go.

I've yet to see a distressed animal, anything but a swift ending and anything unhygienic.

PTS at home may sound lovely but who here doesn't know someone with a horror story about injection/shot going wrong. I've known a horse alive over 12hours after injection and several horses with a poor shot grazing a head, one ending with the shooter in the grave it was lined up with ahead of the horse. I've known one go to the hunt and be made to walk inbetween dropped horses so they didn't have to move it after and it was dropped while truly terrified.

An abbatoir is just as terrifying as any other form of pts when done incorrectly. And far less terrifying than the neglect when people would rather not do anything than pts at one. Such a big misconception that it is a bad way to go.

I wouldn't send mine and would do at home, but it is purely a personal choice based on the bad cases and who I trust, same as I'd never use injection and would have knackerman or a family member who I knew and trusted their shot to do it. But that is what it is personal choice not because any form is crueler than the other and I certainly wouldn't panic if one went to slaughter, as long as I or someone the horse knew was stood by the horses side.
 
Someone I know had one PTS by injection at home in the orchard they then left it overnight while a JCB arrived when they got up in the morning the pony was wandering around the orchard grazing
So it doesnt always go right
 
windand rain said:
Someone I know had one PTS by injection at home in the orchard they then left it overnight while a JCB arrived when they got up in the morning the pony was wandering around the orchard grazing
So it doesnt always go right
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???? When I had my 27 yr old gelding pts by injection, the vet stayed and checked the heart and did not leave until we were sure he had gone. Quiet and peaceful.
 
windand rain said:
Someone I know had one PTS by injection at home in the orchard they then left it overnight while a JCB arrived when they got up in the morning the pony was wandering around the orchard grazing
So it doesnt always go right
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I've never had a horse pts, but have done so with several elderly dogs. :( The vet has always checked the heart has stopped afterwards and been 100% sure they were dead.

I'm sure it would be the same with a horse. Do you think this person could have been pulling your leg?
 
Spring Feather said:
Hmm well someone is either telling porky pies or the vet and owner were totally incompetent.
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Not necessarily so.

I've known of one still breathing over 12hours later. Not properly breathing but once a minute or so. It had the injection, went down but still slowly breathing, an hour or so later had another and when found breathing the next morning (when collecting) was finished off. It wasn't 'alive' as such in that it was not conscious at all and the breathing rate and heart rate was very slow and easily missed, but it certainly wasn't dead.

They believe that the injection hadn't worked as it was a lamanitic pony, stuffed full of sugarbeet and grass the night before. The sugars then affected the uptake of the injection.

I've questioned this with another vet (who I completely trust) who told me that he hadn't experienced it, but that it sounded entirely plausible.

So only one injection in the same circumstances, I wouldn't write off the fact that it could've got back up again.
 
horserider said:
Why is having the euthanasia and disposal of every horse prepaid so difficult ?
...

In the same way that strangles could be eliminated, and passports could work, if it wasn't for the portion of the horse owning community who won't abide by the law/DEFRA guidelines. There isn't the resources for this to be policed.

As abandoned horses and strays become an increasingly expensive problem for councils and the irresponsible breeding continues, particularly in the racing industry- (who, incidentally could afford to plough a minute percentage of their profits back into funding racehorse retraining programmes-), the issue of what to do with unwanted horses is a social problem that should be paid for by the equestrian community, not tax payers.

It'hs paid for by the unfortunate landowners whose land the horses are dumped on, and by people who donate to the charities such as Redwings who deal with them.

Support the horse meat industry if you want, but allow the animal to have a humane and peaceful death first.
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Everybody here wants a humane death for all horses .

horserider said:
I think there is a difference between livestock and horses though. Who has looked after a single cow, spent months trying to win its trust and co operation during backing and training ?
Who has reassured that flight animal that you are not a predator and want to look after its best interests in return for its work ?


How many of those ponies waiting day after day in a pen at the abattoir with other unknown,old/lame/frightened/aggressive horses joining it - How many of those ponies remember the days when a little girl hugged it tightly and promised to love it forever ?
How many of those lame, old horses had owners who agonised about what rug it should wear, what supplements were best ?
How many of those race horses were once well fed, well cared for by devoted grooms now stand bewildered in the cold, no longer having anyone to care that during their last days they are unrugged and cold ?
Who cares if during their final days they are kicked or bitten or chased of the hay and water ?

At least farmers are honest with their livestock. They are never promised that they will be loved, be someone's best friend or admired athlete during their glory days.

Our abattoirs are a disgrace and if our horses cannot find allies on a horse forum, then perhaps attitudes have changed in these modern times. Since horses are no longer essential for transport and farming etc and horse thieves are no longer hung but receive a slap on the wrist at a magistrates court.( Not that I'm advocating hanging anyone.)
Horses once seen as noble are now merely disposable.
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The horses at Beeston on the whole are hill ponies who are feral and have to be herded in. I'd say on any given auction day the breakdown would be:

1 old lame previously loved riding horse
10 young (1-3 yo) unbroken but handled coloured cob types
5-10 riding ponies and horses brought to market by dealers
5 Donkeys
1 currently ridden middle aged and apparently reasonable health horse. may or may not be doped and buted up :rolleyes:
40-60+ feral ponies - welsh As, shetlands, Welsh B+Cs, indiscriminately bred.

I would put it to you that those feral ponies know no different about man than cattle do.


My problem with this lady's actions and publicity is that:

a) I don't think she can afford to pay their basic care, and they will end up a welfare case that another charity has to get involved with and spend even more money to put right
b) She will have inspired copy cat action by well meaning people who also don't see the harm they are doing to the bigger picture, and who will also in a few months be welfare cases for the other charities. None of the big charities condone rescue from slaughter/market, and there are a few good reasons why.
c) She is doing harm to the campaigns by WHW et al to build bridges with slaughterhouses. WHW etc would all rather horses were slaughtered in this country, humanely, with CCTV (I think it's hillside who is promoting that) and accountability to DEFRA guidelines on horse slaughter, than shipped many miles overseas in cramped conditions with horses they don't know, without food and drink or rest and arriving with horrific injuries. If she does too much "Ban all horse slaughter" promotion the slaughterhouses may well turn their backs on the horse loving population who are working towards a workable solution for all, and for the benefit of the horse.
b) We saw it before with Franch, no less quantity of horses go to slaughter. The 8 she rescued are safe, 8 others now are dead instead. That's a net increase in demand of 8 cheap horses, which will encourage even more irresponsible breeding and sales at auction because "oh look, there's an increase in demand because the mugs are now trying to save their cute little ponies from the horrible meat man. Let's breed more so that they can have their wish AND the meatman has his". That situation is lose-lose, you really can't save them all at that level, so much better to help not hinder those such as WHW who are trying to sort out the bigger picture.
 
mhorses said:
well that abartoir is reknowned for killing horses in a cruel way and cram them together whilst shooting them one by one. The living room is a quick fix obviously until she finds good homes. You all disgust me as horse lovers saying they would be better off dead.
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The lounge was a set up by the press. The pony is of course in a stable.
 
great news!(as long as she doenst get any more!) lets hope they have been rehomed with decent contracts and that they will be visited regularly to ensure their welfare:rolleyes:
 
Natch said:
My problem with this lady's actions and publicity is that:

a) I don't think she can afford to pay their basic care, and they will end up a welfare case that another charity has to get involved with and spend even more money to put right
b) She will have inspired copy cat action by well meaning people who also don't see the harm they are doing to the bigger picture, and who will also in a few months be welfare cases for the other charities. None of the big charities condone rescue from slaughter/market, and there are a few good reasons why.
c) She is doing harm to the campaigns by WHW et al to build bridges with slaughterhouses. WHW etc would all rather horses were slaughtered in this country, humanely, with CCTV (I think it's hillside who is promoting that) and accountability to DEFRA guidelines on horse slaughter, than shipped many miles overseas in cramped conditions with horses they don't know, without food and drink or rest and arriving with horrific injuries. If she does too much "Ban all horse slaughter" promotion the slaughterhouses may well turn their backs on the horse loving population who are working towards a workable solution for all, and for the benefit of the horse.
b) We saw it before with Franch, no less quantity of horses go to slaughter. The 8 she rescued are safe, 8 others now are dead instead. That's a net increase in demand of 8 cheap horses, which will encourage even more irresponsible breeding and sales at auction because "oh look, there's an increase in demand because the mugs are now trying to save their cute little ponies from the horrible meat man. Let's breed more so that they can have their wish AND the meatman has his". That situation is lose-lose, you really can't save them all at that level, so much better to help not hinder those such as WHW who are trying to sort out the bigger picture.
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Totally agree with you, and the lady in question unfortunately does not appear to want to listen to any reason on the subject or understand her own limitations. Alas, as we have all witnessed with the 'horse hoarder' (i say that tounge in cheek) case recently 'love, cuddles and kissed' do not save horses!

But i understand that the 'rescuer' and her family have left the campaign group and that the sane group members have reformed with the main intention to campaign for the closer of the Red Lion Abottoir based on the recent Hillside video footage and past cases of abuse. But they now appear to have taken the view that another licenced and properly run abottoir is needed to take its place....which sounds rather more sensible :)
 
It's appears one of the rescued horses - the mare is ill. I do hope she can afford the vet for her. Presuming this one hasn't been rehomed. It would be great if they saw sense and promoted monitoring rather than closure of red lion
 
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