Behavioural - Last chance for him, can HHO please help Prince?

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Llwyncwn

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A couple of months ago I posted about Prince who has behavioural problems after being put in a cattle crush when he wouldnt stand to be mounted. Long, long story, but his options have run out with his current owner.

Prince is only 5, no problems before his previous, previous owner with cattle crush and he deserves more. 15.2hh Sec D, moves like a dream and a teddy bear to handle, but totally off his head with a saddle. X-rays (from withers back to tail) show no problems, physio says he is very tight but he did enjoy the massage.

When saddled up, he explodes just like he has been electrocuted.

My clients money has run out and so has Prince's options.

Help.

Hx

EDS - His owners will send him to auction if I cant find a solution quick. I would rather pts here. Absolutely any ideas and comments - Im clutching at straws here for him.
 
Just a suggestion and I am sure you have already tried it anyway but is there a chance you could go right back to basics with him..ie just leaning over the saddle and getting off, trying again and putting him back out, doing it again for the next couple of days until you can sit on him, get off and turn him out until you can work up to actually riding him into the school? This worked wonders for a pony we had that had a tantrum when you mounted her and lead to a very well behaved pony overall.
 
Is it really in his best interests to be saddled? Perhaps his ridden career is over, maybe there's something else he could do. I cannot believe what those people did to that poor boy.
 
What is he like with the saddle just around, over the stable door etc.? Would it be possible to feed him next to it, with it on etc? We had a mare who was terrified of the lunge cavesson, we fastened it to her hay rack, she had to be very close to it to eat. We also left it on her for short periods to eat in (with checks that she had not got caught up).
 
I don't have any answers, but some of the things I might try -a roller until comfortable, saddle with no girth just set on, moving on to loose girth, or behavioural expert - if it came to it breaking to drive?
 
Thank you all. He has been restarted twice in the gentlist of ways. He is absolutely terrified of the saddle. We have tried putting saddle on the wall, on his back etc.

I have arranged to help his owner at 6am tomorrow morning. Firstly a massage, then saddle, then gentle lunge. This is beyond all my years of experience. I cant give up on this little man. Please help.
 
what about driving?

Edit. too slow it seems!!!

so if he is scared of the saddle it self then you need to desensetize him to it much like you do with other things. take one wreck of a saddle that it isnt an issue if it gets trashed and tie in onto the gate to his feild so he can investigate it in his own time. even go as far as to put food by it so he has to come near it to get the food.

Also if he is scared of the saddle it self what is he like bareback? I'd understand perfectly if noone has tried it but if he still goes ape bareback then it's not the saddle thats an issue?

everything IMO of course
 
Do you think it is the saddle or the girth? TBH (and yes, I know MANY will roll their eyes) I would PM H's Mum and get her to send you some Coligone. It could just be that he has severe gastric ulcers that are causing this extreme reaction.
 
Have they tried turning him away to let him chill in the field for a few months, possibly longer?

I'd be tempted to give him some space then start again slowly from scratch.
 
I'm probably going to get shot down for this - but how about a healer - I'm in NI and know someone who works through psychological problems using oils/reiki/energies - I don;t know the details of what she does, I just let her get on with it, but know she helped a horse of ours who had a lot of issues as a result of an abusive past. I don't know where you are and if there is anyone like that in youe area but I'd give it a go.
 
He has had various saddles, rollers, girths, training aids - nothing helped. Tried saddles on the wall, door, back, next door.

Great with rugs.

Have been in contact with H's mum a while ago. He is so happy, chilled, settled - a true gentleman at 5. Put a saddle near him and his eyes roll. He was sedated this week which didnt stop him going ballistic when the saddle was introduced.

I have PM'd HHO to ask for help. I have to do whats right for him. He has two weeks left and Im crying for him. Someone out there must be able to help?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm probably going to get shot down for this - but how about a healer - I'm in NI and know someone who works through psychological problems using oils/reiki/energies - I don;t know the details of what she does, I just let her get on with it, but know she helped a horse of ours who had a lot of issues as a result of an abusive past. I don't know where you are and if there is anyone like that in youe area but I'd give it a go.

[/ QUOTE ]

ooh careful your getting into the realms of parelli and that truly is a can of worms to open in this place!!!

LOL
grin.gif
 
He has been turned away.

Healers : We had Ann Dee on the phone to him. Adam Sherriston is coming on Monday. All my straws have been clutched at now.

His owner e-mailed RM but had no reply.

I cant be the only person in this world who has taken on such a huge problem without any answers?
 
If you go on the intelligent horsemanship they have a list of recommended associates. Monty Roberts also has a website of his own. I'm sure there's a way to contact them through that.
 
Agree with suggestion for Kelly Marks at Intelligent Horsemanship. She can work wonders with seemingly impossible horses. Good luck with your little chap. At least he's got you to champion him. If all else fails, he would be better off being pts at home with you. Fingers crossed something good comes up.
 
Is there any chance he sustained an injury during the mounting "attempt"? (What is WRONG with people?
frown.gif
) Was he okay to saddle before that, does anyone know?

Is he even in his movement (not just sound), correct in his posture, and otherwise not compromised in any way?

Has ANYTHING produced an improvement, however slight or short lived?

Is he "funny" about anything else, no matter how apparently unrelated? How is he about being restrained in other circumstances? Does he load and trailer reasonably?

As far as straw clutching, it doesn't seem you have much to lose, does it? There are more things in heaven and earth . . . It's all very well for people to pronounce but in the end this is apparently a "one way" situation and it's up to the owners what they pursue or don't.

The comment about the sale is a bit worrying . . . even if they do disclose fully it's been my experience that horses with this sort of problem are in for a very rough ride and usually a bad end. It's one thing for someone to fully observe and understand the situation and still chose to take the horse on, quite another to have someone pick him up deciding to "have a go". I've seen (and eventually been involved in) many situations where, alas, the people who think that way are honestly the last people who should be involved.

I realise it's not the OPs choice and not his/her decision but it's worth saying on the "you never know who's reading" front. I'm sure some horses sold without provenance make out okay but many, whether or not people want to hear it, don't.

Where does the pony live?
 
I know a guy that would probably be able to sort him out. When we bought Spike he was a difficult horse to get on and put the saddle on. Doesn't sound quite as bad as your but certainly very difficult. We spent weeks restarting him etc and we never once managed to actually get on. As soon as we got a foot in the stirrup he would explode!!
We sent him off to Jason Webb who had him for 3 weeks and on the day we picked him up Jason just jumped on him bareback with a rop halter!!!
We have since found out that he had kissing spines and has now been operated on but what I find amazing is that Jason managed to gain the trust of this horse so much that even in pain he would let him get on.
This is his website http://www.australianhorsetraining.co.uk and even if he is a bit far for you I would definatly consider him, just ring him for a chat he is such a nice guy.
 

I would think that there is more to this than just the crush, has anyone checked inside the saddle to see if there are any tacks inside it - you would be amazed at how many saddles are so badly made - even the major brand names,This would mean that everytime the saddle goes on him his s stabbed in his back. If the saddle is fine - an to be honest there are not many decent saddlers out there who would check the construction - most only check the fit, then I think this poor chap needs to be worked through his fear in an extremely controlled manner. I personally would be looking to use a Monty Roberts trained RA. See what they recommend but I would probably expect them to use 'heidi' the dummy that is attached to the saddle and let that experience his worse. Once he has been worked with he will accept heidi and that is far far safer than a person getting on. Down here we are extremely lucky to have Dan Wilson who is one of the RA's he is phenomemnal with horses that have been failed in some way.
Your local Monty Roberts Recommended Associate is Cara Kimber

Area covered

Wirral, Cheshire, Merseyside, Some N.Wales
Name

Cara Kimber
Contact Details

07714 337 880

carak_73@yahoo.co.uk


£30 per hour plus travel costs.

Good Luck - ring her have a chat it costs nothing and may save this chaps life
 
whats he like with a roller? Id be tempted to leave him in the stable with a roller over his rug to start off with.
 
Thank you all for your suggestions, they are so much appreciated.

Prince was broken in Pembrokeshire and hacked out absolutely fine. Total novice man bought him and took him home to Bedfordshire where the cattle crush incident occured along with other unsavory stuff. Cutting out most of the long story, he has been re-started by a professional locally who could only manage to ride him in walk. He has been at my yard now in South Wales for a few months and has been ridden by his carer in walk and trot in the school, very carefully. Prince has built up a wonderful trust in Cheryl, however due to the credit crisis and the fact that he is dangerous, her OH has said that Prince must go back to Cheryls sister (owner) in Bedfordshire where she originally rescued him. Is this making sense so far?

If Prince goes back to Bedfordshire, he will be sent directly to the auctions. This has been confirmed. I cannot allow this to happen and must find a solution PDQ.

He has had a chiropractor. He has been to the vets and had his spine x-rayed from the withers to the dock. We have had Ann Dee (animal communicator) and we have Adam Sherriston coming on Monday to work with him in the school (Monty Roberts style).

I played with Prince this morning by giving him a session with the electronic massager, covering him with used numnahs and rubbing them all over his body and finally put a synthetic saddle on him with no girth. He was very twitchy but accepted what I was doing. He only goes ballistic when you girth him up. I will do the same for the next few days and see where it leads, but this isnt going to cure him in order for him to find a new home.

His saddle has been checked. The dentist has removed two wolf teeth which another dentist had tried to take out but broke in half and a skin had covered the broken pieces.

I know only too well what goes on at the low level sales. I know how some dealers work. I cant allow Prince to end up killing someone then being passed around from one dealers yard to another. At 5 years old he deserves the chance to be a proper horse.

Prince cant be the only horse with these problems - there must be someone out there who can help him without it costing the earth?
 
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