Being rude to certain teenage members of the forum

little_flea

little_flea

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Having followed the ongoing drama surrounding the poster BSJAShowjumper123 I now feel compelled to say something. Some of you are just unbelievably rude to this girl.

She is not abusing the horse for goodness sake, she is a teenager learning!

Most of us didn't come out of the womb as perfectly formed riders who instinctively know how to correctly school a horse. Most of us could do some things better and be better riders - the fact the OP comes on here asking for advice surely is positive? She is taking some of it on board, and some more will sink in with time. Yes it would be wonderful if every single horse in Britain was ridden in perfect balance, in a snaffle, but until then, people will continue loving their horses and do the best they can based on their current level of knowledge.

Telling the OP that she is destroying her horse and shouldn't be riding it is not helpful, and it is also rude and likely to have the opposite effect. Most riders I see at unaffiliated level or not competing are no better or no worse than this - get over yourselves.

It may be impossible for you to understand why this girl is not following all of your lovely advice, but Rome wasn't built in a day, and she really does seem to be trying. This has turned in to a bit of a witch hunt and you have to remember that the OP is very young. The fact that she is trying to take at least some of your advice on board is positive. Whenever advice is given online you have to filter through it and assess what of it will be useful/possible for you to change - don't take the fact that this poster isn't blindly following a schooling plan devised by a number of strangers off the internet as a personal insult or a sign of the OP being "beyond help".
 
Very well said. I totally agree. I think a lot of her critics are teenagers themselves, as they're not always that mature answers!
 
I agree, but its very easy to fight with people on a forum because you can say what you think without having to say it to their face.

But you are right xxxx
 
It is all well and good to say "well I certainly don't do that and I'm only XX years old" or "When I was your age, I schooled my section A to PSG level" but attempting to hammer home advice by shouting louder and using stronger words has historically not done that much good. Come on, we are nice and helpful on here, not rude and patronising.
 
Anyone who comes on an open forum and posts a question/pic/video etc leaves themselevs open to comments - which may be classed as critisism or advice as you please. Not everyone will agree with everyone else, that is the joy of a forum such as this, if you post then you must take this on board and deal with the fact that not everyone will agree with what has been posted, and people will express this in different ways. If you can't deal with this then best not to post.
In relation to the particular post that I think sparked this off, there have been many posts from BSJAshowjumper123 and many people have encoraged, advised and given indepth help to her questions. When she then posts showing how much she is ignoring such advice then it is pretty much guaranted that there will be some backlash! Almost all the replys I have read have given advice or support (though with differing tones to the reply), what on earth is wrong with that!!!!
P.S. no-one is saying 'you must work to such and such level'. BSJAshowjumper123 has stated her aims and people are generally advising her to step back a little and work on getting the basics sorted to help her reach her goals.
 
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i dont agree. when she first posted asking for advice, loads of people gave her valuable feedback and tips to improve her riding. she ignored it. she then asked for advice in another area. she ignored it. IMO if she was 14 or 40, she is asking but not taking on board what everyone is saying. im trying to be polite to her but my patience is wearing thin. no she is not 'abusing' her horse and its totally up to her what she does. but the fact she is asking for help, getting it and ignoring it is bloody annoying.
 
Yeah have to agree, I really haven't been involved however I hate that every post she makes gets 4 pages at least of replies. She gets jumped on at every oppurtunity, yes she is young, and the adults responding should perhaps think more before replying.

Also having seen recent videos of said user, I really don't think she is particularly bad, yes she has a few issues, but I think everyone has things to improve on. There are other teenage riders on here which talk in quite a similar way, ride in a similar way but they don't get all this!
 
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I do agree. Can't believe people are so sanctimonious, and am suprised there are so many perfect riders around who feel they have great advice to give. If she annoys you, don't open the posts.
 
BSJAlove said:
i dont agree. when she first posted asking for advice, loads of people gave her valuable feedback and tips to improve her riding. she ignored it. she then asked for advice in another area. she ignored it. IMO if she was 14 or 40, she is asking but not taking on board what everyone is saying. im trying to be polite to her but my patience is wearing thin. no she is not 'abusing' her horse and its totally up to her what she does. but the fact she is asking for help, getting it and ignoring it is bloody annoying.
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Do you honestly think that in a matter of days, this person can without any additional help, change her whole way of riding/training her horse based on advice from faceless strangers on a messageboard? FFS, these things take time, not all advice may be suitable for whatever reason, and my understanding is that she also has an instructor she trusts. I recently did a post re collapsed heels in the vet lounge, and if I took all advice from there my horse would be on a variety of medication and have shoes on/off alternate days... you have to work with what you've got and what is possible.
 
TBH I do not even read her posts anymore. I agree in part with BSJAlove and glosgirl it becomes frustrating when you offer advice sevral times and such advice is ignored (hence why I do not read her posts anymore!)

No she does not deserve to be jumped on and recieve harsh comments, so I suggest to anyone feeling frustrated or annoyed with BSJAshowjumper123 to just ignore her posts (Don't know if you can still use UI on this new forum??)
 
FYI, below is the first response I bothered to write out for BSJAshowjumper123 or whatever her name is. I have given, like countless others, advice, support, help etc. This post is a bit uncalled for really, considering many many people have also tried to help.

And yes, regardless of her age, I am really blinking irritated that with the 1000’s of years of experience between HHO members she still chooses to ignore it and ride her horse like that. And I did say something, harsh as it was, because despite the advice, support and positivity members have given this girl, she still ignores it and posts asking for MORE help and videos which show she has clearly ignored all of the advice and help she has been given.

It is a forum, she asked for an opinion, and I gave it - and stand by that until she starts to think of the comfort of her horse, she doesn’t deserve the honest ride that it gives her. Anyway, so you know I am not a right old cow for the sake of it, here is one of my original responses to BSJA123 asking for help.

Anyway here is my initial response, and I suppose everyone can read the follow up in the thread below (or above) regarding whether she is to big for her horse.

QR - I thought I had posted this but clearly not...

I cant beleive you are still asking questions seeing as though you have taken quite a beating on this forum! Good for you

Firstly, I admire your ambition. I had similar ambition when I was your age...and still do, and it has taken over a decade to get to where I am (and that still involves schooling my horses at unaffiliated level!!) Maybe I am a slow learner, or have no talent ( )

I will also say that if you go to jump a newcomers the way you did on your you tube video it you will knock your confidence hugely and you will either come off, your horse will fall, or you won’t get past the second jump – so please don’t! Slowly slowly catchy monkey, and all that!!

The best exercise I can recommend to you is pole work – if you have your heart set on jumping, first lay 2 grids in your arena. One where you have to ride short strides, and one where you have to push for a slightly longer stride (put the poles further out)

When you are cantering over the poles confidently, introduce things (still poles) like unrelated distances (still in your grid) where you have to ride either 4 short strides or three long ones, and ride a 3 or 4 stride canter over them.

Having watched your riding, I would really suggest that you do this initial trot and canter exercise with no stirrups to help your balance, and hands

Then lay your poles out in a course (this should not all be done on the same day it is schooling, so should take as long as you and your horse needs) and literally, concentrate on cantering round seamlessly, getting your strides right between related distances, seeing a stride with your unrelated distances, changing if your horse changes, all at a correct and calm pace.

Your pole course should gradually become more complicated, so you introduce more technical aspects, such as tight turns, unrelated distances, bounce poles etc. You should also introduce (eventually) ‘folding’ over the poles, so you can see a stride, ‘take off’ and ‘landing’

Then introduce tiny jumps (1”6 max) – and continue to canter in exactly the same way as you did before. When you can do that confidently, build your jumps up gradually. If you can then confidently go and jump round in exactly the same way as you can the poles, you are probably ready to go out and compete. I would suggest local level would be the best option, as it is cheaper.

Your first round at BSJA (at whatever level) is to prove your horse can confidently jump round a technical course of show jumps, it doesn’t matter how long it takes really (so long as it is not all day) . So if you can go in, jump clear, and then push on for the second round, it will be worth your while, if not, you will pay a whapping load of registration and entry for not much else. Its not all about saying you are a member!!

The alternative option, of course, is to go to your local BSJA, warm up, buy yourself a ticket for newcomers, and see how you go...
 
little_flea said:
Do you honestly think that in a matter of days, this person can without any additional help, change her whole way of riding/training her horse based on advice from faceless strangers on a messageboard? FFS, these things take time, not all advice may be suitable for whatever reason, and my understanding is that she also has an instructor she trusts. I recently did a post re collapsed heels in the vet lounge, and if I took all advice from there my horse would be on a variety of medication and have shoes on/off alternate days... you have to work with what you've got and what is possible.
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i didn't ask for her to change her whole way of riding, the advice i gave her was to get a decent instructor. as did a load of others on this forum. i also voiced my opinion that i dont agree with the bit the horse is in. in my first post i clearly said, i cant give good advice as i dont know the horse. hence why she should get a better instructor as the one she has obviously has little knowledge on topline and flatwork. i can see where you coming from and im not going to sit here and argue my point any longer, as ive said what i think. :)
 
And little_flea, 99% of the people on her last threads have told her to dump all the tack and go back to basics in a snaffle – as far as that flatwork video shows, she hasn’t even bothered to move the reins on her 3 ring gag up...which takes 2 seconds.
 
glosgirl said:
Anyone who comes on an open forum and posts a question/pic/video etc leaves themselevs open to comments - which may be classed as critisism or advice as you please. Not everyone will agree with everyone else, that is the joy of a forum such as this, if you post then you must take this on board and deal with the fact that not everyone will agree with what has been posted, and people will express this in different ways. If you can't deal with this then best not to post.
In relation to the particular post that I think sparked this off, there have been many posts from BSJAshowjumper123 and many people have encoraged, advised and given indepth help to her questions. When she then posts showing how much she is ignoring such advice then it is pretty much guaranted that there will be some backlash! Almost all the replys I have read have given advice or support (though with differing tones to the reply), what on earth is wrong with that!!!!
P.S. no-one is saying 'you must work to such and such level'. BSJAshowjumper123 has stated her aims and people are generally advising her to step back a little and work on getting the basics sorted to help her reach her goals.
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Yes, you can say whatever you want on the internet, and use whatever tone you choose. I just wonder why you would choose to be rude and condescending to someone who clearly is young, loves her horse and DOES want to improve... I realise that your answer to this is "but if she wanted to improve she would take my advise" - but to me, the fact that she hasn't for whatever reason been able to take all advise on board does not warrant the current free for all to say all sorts of horrible and unhelpful things to this girl.
 
The problem I have is that this particular poster always seems to start a thread which kick starts a huge debate. The thread isn't necessarily about her, but can be about some aspect of horse care like the horse kicking thread running atm. No-one on that thread is 'having a go' at the OP, but a debate is raging. I often wonder how she can have this uncanny knack?
 
I must have had my head stuck in the sand (:p) as she has only appeared on my radar today.

* I'm thinking it's safer to resume my normal position *
 
Little_flea, I think the point here is fairly simple - tens of pages of advice, and this girl has not even thought to think "something isnt working here"...

A good rider is someone who constantly learns, not who thinks they know better and ignores solid advice. You clearly know what you are doing - what would you say to her if she was on your yard? I suspect it would be to get a good instrutor, loose the harsh bits, and go back to basics.

Which is EXACTLY what she has been advised to do...by hundreds of experienced and unexperienced people on this forum - and hasnt.

And if she ignored your advice, and yet still asked for it....would you not get irritated?

I think it is a collective irritation from a group of people who can see a potential great partnership but a rider who doesnt listen.
 
little_flea said:
Yes, you can say whatever you want on the internet, and use whatever tone you choose. I just wonder why you would choose to be rude and condescending to someone who clearly is young, loves her horse and DOES want to improve... I realise that your answer to this is "but if she wanted to improve she would take my advise" - but to me, the fact that she hasn't for whatever reason been able to take all advise on board does not warrant the current free for all to say all sorts of horrible and unhelpful things to this girl.
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I would never give that answer, but as R2R has pointed out, between the members of h&h who have given her advice there must be 1000s of years of experience! It would appear that she hasn't taken on board even the smallest suggestion. Suggestions such as putting the jumping on hold, reducing her bit strength, varying her flatwork with figure 8s etc - none of these require more than a seconds thought and effort, but for some reason she still keeps on posting questions and videos that show she is ignoring the good and varied advice. By all means pick and choose the bits you think would suit yourself and your horse, but she really shouldn't be terribly suprised that visably ignoring it all will get some peoples backs up who have tried to help.
 
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Come on now, credit where credit is due.
In a very short time she has become very very well known on the forum, gets far more views / responses that majority of posts and now even has a her very own thread.

Makes her a winner in my book ;)
 
Being irritated is understandable but then having to make this clear on each post she makes, even if said post is on a totally different topic is unreasonable. Also she has at times admitted her mistakes (e.g pelham) and I just think people need to behave like adults and just let her get on with what she does, she has been given the advise and if she wishes can use it, however constant horrible comments isn't going to help anyone.
 
siennamum said:
I do agree. Can't believe people are so sanctimonious, and am suprised there are so many perfect riders around who feel they have great advice to give. If she annoys you, don't open the posts.
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Hear hear. If you keep "bashing" away she'll just go away and then what will happen. Teenagers often need a bit of time to believe thst what us "oldies" say really does make sense. She's probably trying out some of the suggestions but it obviously won't show an immediate effect. At least she's asking questions rather than the "I know better than you" attitude of many teens. As S said "If she annoys you don't open the posts".
 
R2R said:
Little_flea, I think the point here is fairly simple - tens of pages of advice, and this girl has not even thought to think "something isnt working here"...

A good rider is someone who constantly learns, not who thinks they know better and ignores solid advice. You clearly know what you are doing - what would you say to her if she was on your yard? I suspect it would be to get a good instrutor, loose the harsh bits, and go back to basics.

Which is EXACTLY what she has been advised to do...by hundreds of experienced and unexperienced people on this forum - and hasnt.

And if she ignored your advice, and yet still asked for it....would you not get irritated?

I think it is a collective irritation from a group of people who can see a potential great partnership but a rider who doesnt listen.
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She obviously has taken some of the advice though - she says she is trying to do more flatwork, she accepted the pelham wasn't working etc. I just don't see why you have to get so annoyed at the stuff she hasn't yet been able to take on board - if people ask for my advise I will happily offer it, then it is up to them what they do with it, and if they decide that my advice isn't working for them, so be it. Then I can choose whether I want to continue giving them advice if they ask again, or whether I don't want to get involved. I'm not having a go at you specifically at all R2R, and I agree there has been some very good advice given - but that is not the issue here.
 
quirky said:
I must have had my head stuck in the sand (:p) as she has only appeared on my radar today.

* I'm thinking it's safer to resume my normal position *
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Likewise, but then I rarely look at threads where people are asking for advice on their riding, especially jumping - I'm simply not good enough in that area to offer anything useful. Kicking horses in stables I can advise on though!
 
Totally agree. Some of the language and attitude that has been used towards this poster is disgusting. We've all been teenagers and gotten a little carried away when we're enjoying things (like maybe jumping the same fence a few too many times than we should etc) but we learnt. This girl does genuinely seem to want to improve and wants the best for her mare which is surely all that you can ask from ANYONE in the horse community be they people just starting out or world class horsemen/women.

And secondly, just because she asks for advice on a public forum does not mean she is obliged to take it. I'd take my instructor's advice over something someone who I don't know over the internet told me. I'm sure many of the people giving advice are extremely knowledgeable but there is absolutely no way of knowing that!
 
L-F - I know my post triggered you to post this, it doesnt matter! I am still curious to know what you would do with her if she was on your yard mind you :D

The Watcher - all I have to say is I get nervous when you post, like I am being watched...you make me very paranoid lol :D

And lastly, this is my 1,000 post. And now I am a vetran. BLEURGH
 
I made a few comments a few weeks ago about 'wasting time on teeneagers because they just don't listen'....I personally do NOT offer advice because I work with this age and know full well they listen when they want, then don't listen to stuff they don't like the sound of....

R2R did make a good comment though about what can be classed as horse abuse, and I certainly agree that many overlook the fact that bad riding can indeed be horse abuse....

If the teenager in question keeps posting such stuff, then she will be up for more rants and rages, but those who keep yelling are wasting their breath...if you get mad over such posts, just ignore them, you certainly can't change the world....and if she were my daughter, she wouldn't be posting such things on a forum for strangers to see anyway....

The way some people do go at her though, is quite disgusting....IF she is truly who she says she is....
 
R2R said:
Little_flea, I think the point here is fairly simple - tens of pages of advice, and this girl has not even thought to think "something isnt working here"...

A good rider is someone who constantly learns, not who thinks they know better and ignores solid advice. You clearly know what you are doing - what would you say to her if she was on your yard? I suspect it would be to get a good instrutor, loose the harsh bits, and go back to basics.

Which is EXACTLY what she has been advised to do...by hundreds of experienced and unexperienced people on this forum - and hasnt.

And if she ignored your advice, and yet still asked for it....would you not get irritated?

I think it is a collective irritation from a group of people who can see a potential great partnership but a rider who doesnt listen.
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Firstly, have you actually spoken to the girl because I have and believe me she has taken on a LOT of the advice. I PM'd her and she sent me back a very well manner and well written reply, I offered advice if she ever needed if but am not going to take offence if she doesn't take it as she doesn't know me from adam!

Secondly, can you actually remember what its like to be a teenager? Simply saying 'change instructors' is not generally as easy as that. From the ages of 10-16 I was at the same yard (first on RS ponies and then kept my own there). If someone had told me to change instructors it would have meant going through my parents first and foremost and then trying to find somewhere with the same wealth of experience as the place I was at. Luckily I never needed to as this yard was amazing and I have most of my best memories from my teens from that place. But at 14 could you imagine trying to go against every single adult in your equestrian life to try and change something? Easier said than done. Also, as none of these people have actually seen her have a lesson they have NO idea what her current instructor is like and how things go in a lesson!
 
quirky said:
I must have had my head stuck in the sand (:p) as she has only appeared on my radar today.
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Indeed. Working with teenagers for the past 14 years, I must say they do take some repetition of the basics to get it thoroughly ingrained: perhaps this is what the 'nasty' people are doing?

I think a forum is the wrong place to get advice, TBH and she would benefit from lessons, based purely on what has been said here as I haven't read the thread in questions.
 
JunoXV said:
Come on now, credit where credit is due.
In a very short time she has become very very well known on the forum, gets far more views / responses that majority of posts and now even has a her very own thread.

Makes her a winner in my book ;)
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Is BSJA123 etc any relation to Shilasdair, she seems to have the same sense of humour
 
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