Best horse and hound article ever!

honetpot said:
I think that the problem , that people are effort, time and money and not really understanding the cause of horse obesity. It actually costs practically nothing to keep a horse slimmer.
I think the horse uses 94% of its energy keeping warm, our winters are now shorter and milder and yet when I did a quick google the feed companies are pushing winter feeds when most, unless are working horses in a riding school need only forage.
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I was in the feed shop last week. They had just had a delivery. There was one bag of plain grass chaff and 25 bags of Winter Mash. I did mention it while we were in the warehouse looking for the solitary bag of grass chaff, and apparently people go mad for it every winter. They openly describe it as

Contains a blend of oils to provide additional calories and promote a healthy, glossy coat, contains echinacea to support immune function and a blend of fennel and mint to support digestive function.

And the picture is very appealing to! Cold horses being warmed by the health giving Winter Mash. How lovely! You can see why people who want to do the right thing buy it.

Dodson%2B%2526%2BHorrell%2BWinter%2BHealth%2BMash.jpg
 
I'm not taking it personally at all, you just kept picking up on my comments and I wasn't sure why - I actually merrily agreed with you the first couple of times until I realised that you were just having a dig at my leaflet comment (cos I'm a bit dense). I made a generic point about getting inside the livery yard cultures 'tis all.
 
Sussexbythesea said:
If it really is that simple why does it take 28 pages to explain it?
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Because a one page document with pictures of each condition score from 0 - 5, with simple phrasing such as "It's clearly starving to death, hurry up and get the effing vet!" (0), and "Stop effing overfeeding your already morbidly obese pony!" (5), would not go down well in today's delicate snowflake society.
 
Leo Walker said:
I was in the feed shop last week. They had just had a delivery. There was one bag of plain grass chaff and 25 bags of Winter Mash. I did mention it while we were in the warehouse looking for the solitary bag of grass chaff, and apparently people go mad for it every winter. They openly describe it as

Contains a blend of oils to provide additional calories and promote a healthy, glossy coat, contains echinacea to support immune function and a blend of fennel and mint to support digestive function.

And the picture is very appealing to! Cold horses being warmed by the health giving Winter Mash. How lovely! You can see why people who want to do the right thing buy it.

Dodson%2B%2526%2BHorrell%2BWinter%2BHealth%2BMash.jpg
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Drives me mad, LW, slick marketing like that to encourage over feeding. Grrr.
 
KittenInTheTree said:
Because a one page document with pictures of each condition score from 0 - 5, with simple phrasing such as "It's clearly starving to death, hurry up and get the effing vet!" (0), and "Stop effing overfeeding your already morbidly obese pony!" (5), would not go down well in today's delicate snowflake society.
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It’s possible to be succinct without being rude.
 
I wasn't having a dig, honestly (and actually I didn't realise it was you who'd said it until I looked back) - I picked it up initially because I thought it was worth saying they already do that, and have done for years. You then carried on saying you'd never seen their stuff and you'd rather they did celebrity engagement to get their point across (I think that was your basic argument - that you think that's more effective marketing?). They may well do that - certainly other charities do as there are comments from Harry Meade etc on the Blue Cross document linked above. I responded mostly because I am surprised (really - that's not a dig, it's genuine surprise) that horsey people don't see these things, or engage with their stands at events, stumble across their campaigns on the internet or at horsey events etc.

There's no easy answer, anyway. I think - as I said before - that changing opinions in industry professionals - from vets to instructors and YOs - is probably the way forward, and I think that's what the WHW conference is about. I think that is, essentially, getting inside livery yards, just by a different route. Like LeoWalker, I think feed marketing is far from ideal, and that's a huge problem. Hard to tackle though - there's no profit in reducing feed use.
 
Sussexbythesea said:
It’s possible to be succinct without being rude.
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There is the basic BCS chart, which at two pages of mostly photos, is more accessible. It doesn't really tackle why there is an obesity crisis, or what to do about it though. I think there is probably scope for a happy medium between the long document (for those who are very interested for whatever reason) and the BCS chart though... Maybe that exists - I haven't looked.

https://www.bluecross.org.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/1.body-score-chart.pdf
 
Some of the feed firms will support a yard visit to weigh the horses our cob who most people would guess as been over weight was on the top end of normal, my 16h ID who looked a little poor at the time was heavier that a 17h Sports horse, and my Appaloosa X was an ideal weight. Horses are out tonight the cob who has a thick coat has nothing on the other two are wearing just a sheet .
I never short feed in the morning just do not get the time and it stops door kicking
 
If it looks fat and you can't feel it's ribs, it is fat. If it looks poor, it is thin. Feeding horses is not difficult. Nor is ignoring feed companies.
 
Yes they did would have to get the paperwork to remember the grade now, we have it on file for all three horses to see how they change over time and with work put in.
 
KittenInTheTree said:
It's also possible to have a university level education and not whine about information pamphlets being too detailed to bother reading them.
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Oh dear you are rude. I have read it about three years ago as a matter of fact. I wasn’t whining I was pointing out that people just won’t read it - at least not the people that need to read it. That’s a fact! I write a lot of technical guidance that has to be written for the lay person to read. If I didn’t they wouldn’t read it or understand it therefore it would be a complete waste of time.

Secondly people don’t read things they don’t think apply to them so if they think their horse is fine they are not suddenly going to read something about how to get their horse to lose weight.
 
JFTD said:
I wasn't having a dig, honestly (and actually I didn't realise it was you who'd said it until I looked back) - I picked it up initially because I thought it was worth saying they already do that, and have done for years. You then carried on saying you'd never seen their stuff and you'd rather they did celebrity engagement to get their point across (I think that was your basic argument - that you think that's more effective marketing?). They may well do that - certainly other charities do as there are comments from Harry Meade etc on the Blue Cross document linked above. I responded mostly because I am surprised (really - that's not a dig, it's genuine surprise) that horsey people don't see these things, or engage with their stands at events, stumble across their campaigns on the internet or at horsey events etc.

There's no easy answer, anyway. I think - as I said before - that changing opinions in industry professionals - from vets to instructors and YOs - is probably the way forward, and I think that's what the WHW conference is about. I think that is, essentially, getting inside livery yards, just by a different route. Like LeoWalker, I think feed marketing is far from ideal, and that's a huge problem. Hard to tackle though - there's no profit in reducing feed use.
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Not really, that was one of the things I mentioned, my main point was that there are surely more positive efforts to be made/things to include in a speech, that don't include coming out with contradictory sound bites that simultaneously pisses off a whole bunch of different groups of horse owners, including those that are perfectly responsible.

No, no money in reducing feed sales sadly.....or rug sales.....but then again there isn't much in taking shoes off horses and that has become more common and mainstream, so you never know, someone clever may do something innovative
 
On the subject of data does anyone know where the rugging chart that keeps doing the rounds originated from and from which sets of did someone just decide? I've asked a few people that have put it in Facebook threads but not had an answer.

Ours are definitely pets, they live in the back garden :D
 
Oh, now that piece of useless information I have seen - one of the online equine stores had it as an article at the end of summer, complete with hyperlinks at the bottom for pages with rugs of those weight brackets for sale. I remember thinking that the weights were on excessive side even for PSSM horse

ETA Link: https://www.equus.co.uk/blogs/community/temperature-guide-to-rugging-a-horse
 
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tallyho! said:
Sigh. Well, with that advice, over-rugging will remain a problem.
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Yeah...I think I remember being most surprised by the reader comments at the end - there were a lot along the lines of using that chart to show other people that they didn't need to rug as much :eek3:
 
yup that's the one I can only track it to that equus site, though there is a green version. Someone said to me yesterday when I said it was of no use whatsoever that it was just a starting point. I still wasn't sure how.

Nearly as good as the horseware app, that seems to have defined temperature cut offs and I can't see how a 1C difference requires an extra 100g...
 
Nothing wrong with treating our horses as pets, I'd class mine as pets first and foremost. BUT I am routinely astounded at the number of bone idle people that seem to own horses!! For me, they're a lifestyle choice and that includes ensuring they have an appropriate amount of exercise to avoid obesity.

I don't particularly want to get up at 6am every day of the week but I accept that I must when autumn/winter months dictate amount of daylight available. Nor do I particularly like turning out again in the dark at 6.30pm to get them in and do evening stables. Roll on spring!!! My 2 younger horses are exercised at least 4-5 times a week, 6 if I can manage it, and the 21 yr old 3-4 times per week. There are definitely days at this time of year when it feels a bit of a chore but it ensures they are kept fit and healthy .... kinda my responsibility as their guardian

I work full time (very lucky to have flexible working patterns though), have 3 horses and 2 dogs so I do get it is bloody tough in the winter!! Just baffles me when I come across folk who seem to think owning horses is a 10 minute a day job
 
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Mine are pets, most they ever get rug wise is a zero fill. One lives in a zero fill until the midges are all stone dead, as she's a sweet itch sufferer, still grows a fluffy coat ready for when it can come off. The other is a woolly mammoth with shaved legs and a strip clip, and the only one that's not rugged in her herd, most of them have been in minimum 100g since around October, she'd sweat up horribly in a 100g even now! Yeah, she spends most of her time covered head to hoof in orange clay mud, so my not-so-coloured cob is usually stained orange, but she's happy.

Must admit though, I'm guilty of riding her only a couple times a week, anxiety/panic attacks can make it hard to go out (not horse related anxiety, more 'being stuck away from home and having an ibs attack' anxiety), but hey, I'm not going to let her be a blob and then try run her round a course or expect her to do any more than pootling around with no fittening work. And to be honest, pootling is what we're both happy doing :) The other one I can get away with as she's only 2 1/2, so she's not doing much more than eating and growing!
 
TeamChaser said:
Nothing wrong with treating our horses as pets, I'd class mine as pets first and foremost. BUT I am routinely astounded at the number of bone idle people that seem to own horses!! For me, they're a lifestyle choice and that includes ensuring they have an appropriate amount of exercise to avoid obesity.

I don't particularly want to get up at 6am every day of the week but I accept that I must when autumn/winter months dictate amount of daylight available. Nor do I particularly like turning out again in the dark at 6.30pm to get them in and do evening stables. Roll on spring!!! My 2 younger horses are exercised at least 4-5 times a week, 6 if I can manage it, and the 21 yr old 3-4 times per week. There are definitely days at this time of year when it feels a bit of a chore but it ensures they are kept fit and healthy .... kinda my responsibility as their guardian

I work full time (very lucky to have flexible working patterns though), have 3 horses and 2 dogs so I do get it is bloody tough in the winter!! Just baffles me when I come across folk who seem to think owning horses is a 10 minute a day job
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Nothing to do with the thread, but how do you manage that? Only the 2 dogs, 2 horses and a cat, and I get up at 5.30am and still don't seem to have time to ride in the winter...

I don't think it's that difficult to educate yourself, if you're interested. I was a novice owner and both my horses are probably some of the least rugged on the yard, because they don't need it. I also compare feeds to see what they actually contain, as opposed to the manufacturers claims, but mine are on variations of grass. Comparing hoof supplements to get a 'real' comparison of minerals fed per day as opposed to the marketing claims was very enlightening :D I also think the over rugged comments apply equally across the board - it's not just inexperience. I'd like to know why he's turning up his nose at bitless and barefoot as well - with the right horse they can work well, or even better than the traditional options.
 
SpottyMare said:
Nothing to do with the thread, but how do you manage that? Only the 2 dogs, 2 horses and a cat, and I get up at 5.30am and still don't seem to have time to ride in the winter ...QUOTE]

Fortunate enough to work from home sometimes so that helps as can ride over lunch time and work later in the evening! Definitely couldn't have 3 if I didn't have that flexibility. As much as I would love a lie in at the weekend, forgo that to make sure they all get exercised Sat and Sun pretty much without fail. Thankfully, they are all good to ride and lead and I have a friend who rides at the weekend
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TeamChaser said:
Nothing wrong with treating our horses as pets, I'd class mine as pets first and foremost. BUT I am routinely astounded at the number of bone idle people that seem to own horses!! For me, they're a lifestyle choice and that includes ensuring they have an appropriate amount of exercise to avoid obesity.

I don't particularly want to get up at 6am every day of the week but I accept that I must when autumn/winter months dictate amount of daylight available. Nor do I particularly like turning out again in the dark at 6.30pm to get them in and do evening stables. Roll on spring!!! My 2 younger horses are exercised at least 4-5 times a week, 6 if I can manage it, and the 21 yr old 3-4 times per week. There are definitely days at this time of year when it feels a bit of a chore but it ensures they are kept fit and healthy .... kinda my responsibility as their guardian

I work full time (very lucky to have flexible working patterns though), have 3 horses and 2 dogs so I do get it is bloody tough in the winter!! Just baffles me when I come across folk who seem to think owning horses is a 10 minute a day job
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I was amazed when I found out that my local equestrian college with horses stabled didn't start work until 9am, that's when they unlocked the gates.
I have never been on a working yard that started work after 7.30, so what hope of teaching the supposedly equine educated about working in the industry or the reality of real horse care.
 
honetpot said:
I was amazed when I found out that my local equestrian college with horses stabled didn't start work until 9am, that's when they unlocked the gates.
I have never been on a working yard that started work after 7.30, so what hope of teaching the supposedly equine educated about working in the industry or the reality of real horse care.
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Which may go some way to explaining the final para of Jason Webb's H&H blog post:

On the subject of education, I have been enjoying having Hadlow and Plumpton Colleges onto the yard to watch me work and to add to their range of learning experiences. Being an employer in the equine industry, I can’t stress the importance of having a balance between acquiring knowledge through classroom teaching and practical experience, not to mention the understanding that working with horses can be downright tough at times. We’ve been interviewing for an apprentice groom at the moment and although we’ve had some great applicants, we’ve also had a couple who have lasted half a day and explained that they hadn’t realised there was going to be so much physical work involved!
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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/blog...fuse-answer-simple-638657#gW7qRS7uYtTah5W6.99

One does wonder :/
 
TeamChaser said:
Nothing wrong with treating our horses as pets, I'd class mine as pets first and foremost. BUT I am routinely astounded at the number of bone idle people that seem to own horses!! For me, they're a lifestyle choice and that includes ensuring they have an appropriate amount of exercise to avoid obesity.

I don't particularly want to get up at 6am every day of the week but I accept that I must when autumn/winter months dictate amount of daylight available. Nor do I particularly like turning out again in the dark at 6.30pm to get them in and do evening stables. Roll on spring!!! My 2 younger horses are exercised at least 4-5 times a week, 6 if I can manage it, and the 21 yr old 3-4 times per week. There are definitely days at this time of year when it feels a bit of a chore but it ensures they are kept fit and healthy .... kinda my responsibility as their guardian

I work full time (very lucky to have flexible working patterns though), have 3 horses and 2 dogs so I do get it is bloody tough in the winter!! Just baffles me when I come across folk who seem to think owning horses is a 10 minute a day job
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Good Post, my thoughts entirely.
 
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