BHA Whip Rules

[Old school]

Interesting reaction to the new whip rules in racing. Lots of Irish ‘up in arms’ with Cheltenham looming.

Personally, I am delighted to see an organisation take a proactive role in improving the image of equestrianism. The threads here re dressage and hunting indicate how faffing about really damages the ‘Social Licence to Operate’ for all of us who sit on a horse.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Have you got a link to the new whip rules?

 

[Old school]

New whip rules to start in early 2023 following extensive technical discussions with key industry figures | British Horseracing Authority

www.britishhorseracing.com

 

[Steerpike]

I saw a racing post article that said 19 jockeys have been banned for breaking the new whip rules, they knew the rule was coming in so I'm afraid I have no sympathy for them.
Edited for spelling!

 

[reynold]

The 'whip committee' only meets once a week - I believe on a tuesday - so offence penalties won't be imposed at the time of the race.

As above they knew (and negotiated) the rules.

However I think that a headline in a national paper (or god forbid on TV) screaming 19 jockeys banned for the whip will actually do harm to the image of racing and definitely not improve it.

Cutting down and changing whip use was seen as likely to improve racing's image in regard to horse welfare. Lists such as this, with Cheltenham imminent, will actually do harm.

 

[Old school]

Yes. A lot of industry folks appear to think the same. But, the rules are not responsible for the press coverage. It is the jockeys who broke them that are responsible.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Sorry for being naive, I don't really follow racing, but what poor press coverage is there?

 

[Old school]

Sorry for being naive, I don't really follow racing, but what poor press coverage is there?

I have only noticed it on Social Media, Racing Post FB page etc. WP Mullins has also been critical. I think P Nicholls is also upset as his first jockey has been hit with a ban. It (the bans) runs through Cheltenham.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I get why the jockeys are creating a fuss - it's coming up to 2 of the biggest race meetings of the year and they all want to win. They want the new rules to start next season (which would kind of make logical sense) because they don't want to lose a race at Cheltenham or Aintree because they are either too busy counting the number of times they use their Whip or lose it because they have used it too many times.

I don't agree with the meeting once a week thing to dicuss bans. Jockeys need to know there and then if/when they are banned so trainers can make plans for horses if they want particular jockeys on them. You potentially pick up a ban on a Tuesday evening or Wednesday and you won't know for certain until the following week? Nope. Needs to be sooner, the next day at the latest.

I do agree with them losing races BUT I don't think the horse, owner or trainer should be punished. The Jockey should lose their prize money and riding fee. Its about time they made the punishments harsher.

The Irish rules are different to ours so the Irish jockeys will need to really play it safe when they come over.

I think we will be seeing a lot more hands and heels rides over the Festival but then will the Jockey get done for "not trying to obtain the best placing possible" if they don't use their stick at all? Will they really disqualify a Gold Cup or Champion Hurdle winner for it? It these rules were in play last year the Grand National winner would have been disqualified.

The jockeys have had plenty long enough to get used to the new rules. When they came into play they created a fuss and got them changed. Now they are creating a fuss again because it's close to Cheltenham.

I've long said the Hands & Heels series is the way forward for racing and whips. I do think this will come to pass sooner rather than later.

 

[Old school]

Edited.

 

[Old school]

Jockeys stunned as first week of new whip rules sees 20 suspensions given | Horse racing | The Guardian

Charlotte Jones was one of 19 riders found to have broken the BHA’s latest whip rules in the first seven days of the new regime

amp.theguardian.com

 

[SilverLinings]

The coverage might be poor at the moment - printing lists of how many jockeys have been banned/sanctioned for over-use of the whip - but the new rules should serve as enough of a deterrent (hopefully) that the numbers receiving sanctions drops pretty quickly, at which point the BHA can put out a +ve press release about how much whip use has fallen since the new rules.

Given the advance warning of the rule changes and the 'bedding in' periods the jockeys getting caught out at the moment don't really have an excuse, but I think it is likely that the number falling foul of the rules will fall quite quickly now that it has been made clear that the sanctions will be imposed.

 

[fetlock]

I get why the jockeys are creating a fuss - it's coming up to 2 of the biggest race meetings of the year and they all want to win. They want the new rules to start next season (which would kind of make logical sense) because they don't want to lose a race at Cheltenham or Aintree because they are either too busy counting the number of times they use their Whip or lose it because they have used it too many times.

I don't agree with the meeting once a week thing to dicuss bans. Jockeys need to know there and then if/when they are banned so trainers can make plans for horses if they want particular jockeys on them. You potentially pick up a ban on a Tuesday evening or Wednesday and you won't know for certain until the following week? Nope. Needs to be sooner, the next day at the latest.

I do agree with them losing races BUT I don't think the horse, owner or trainer should be punished. The Jockey should lose their prize money and riding fee. Its about time they made the punishments harsher.

The Irish rules are different to ours so the Irish jockeys will need to really play it safe when they come over.

I think we will be seeing a lot more hands and heels rides over the Festival but then will the Jockey get done for "not trying to obtain the best placing possible" if they don't use their stick at all? Will they really disqualify a Gold Cup or Champion Hurdle winner for it? It these rules were in play last year the Grand National winner would have been disqualified.

The jockeys have had plenty long enough to get used to the new rules. When they came into play they created a fuss and got them changed. Now they are creating a fuss again because it's close to Cheltenham.

I've long said the Hands & Heels series is the way forward for racing and whips. I do think this will come to pass sooner rather than later.

Lots arguing that the Prowotsit racing whips are pain free for the horse. As our resident racing expert interested to know if this really is the case.

tempted to try to borrow one to give myself a good flogging to decide for myself

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Lots arguing that the Prowotsit racing whips are pain free for the horse. As our resident racing expert interested to know if this really is the case.

tempted to try to borrow one to give myself a good flogging to decide for myself

Nothing is ever pain free. But the padded racing whips are nothing compared to those horrible little flimsy "hand" or "star" whips we give to kids. I have been belted by them from the lads (and don't worry I gave back as good as I got!) And they smart for a few seconds but it's the noise that's the biggest factor. It is also easier to mark a freshly clipped, hot sweaty horse with all its veins up.

Give one of these whips to a 6yo and tell them to belt you as hard as they can with it. That's kind of the same as a 10st human compared to a half tonne animal.

The whips are not used to hurt the horse to make it go faster, it's the sound of the Whip that makes the biggest difference to the horse.

 

[Maddie Moo]

I’ve noticed they’ve gone in the US, a lot of states have moved to the Gentle Touch 360. Compared the ProCush, it looks like the ’stem’ would be more likely to make contact with the horse’s flank compared to the longer padding of the ProCush - although I am relieved it has removed the leather ‘feathers” they used to have with the popper.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Also has anyone else noticed it's mostly the jumps gang that are getting uppity? Maybe the flat lot would say more if this was happening just before Royal Ascot?

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Just ban it apart from for correction (E.g swerving or going to run out etc)

There's no need for it, hands and heels looks so much more palatable, watching a tired horse be hit, or one clearly out of contention, is not nice to watch

I know it's padded etc, but surely just ban it apart from for safety

E.g. the jockey banned today - how doesnt using it 11 times look good? Isn't that well over the permitted rate

The jockeys whining about it isn't adding to the image of caring about the horse. Rules are there for a reason - e.g. in football you know the consequences of getting a red or yellow card. If you're on a yellow you're more cautious. And that doesn't involve a live animal... I have no sympathy for them either

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Just ban it apart from for correction (E.g swerving or going to run out etc)

There's no need for it, hands and heels looks so much more palatable, watching a tired horse be hit, or one clearly out of contention, is not nice to watch

I know it's padded etc, but surely just ban it apart from for safety

E.g. the jockey banned today - how doesnt using it 11 times look good? Isn't that well over the permitted rate

The jockeys whining about it isn't adding to the image of caring about the horse. Rules are there for a reason - e.g. in football you know the consequences of getting a red or yellow card. If you're on a yellow you're more cautious. And that doesn't involve a live animal

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Just ban it apart from for correction (E.g swerving or going to run out etc)

There's no need for it, hands and heels looks so much more palatable, watching a tired horse be hit, or one clearly out of contention, is not nice to watch

I know it's padded etc, but surely just ban it apart from for safety

E.g. the jockey banned today - how doesnt using it 11 times look good? Isn't that well over the permitted rate

The jockeys whining about it isn't adding to the image of caring about the horse. Rules are there for a reason - e.g. in football you know the consequences of getting a red or yellow card. If you're on a yellow you're more cautious. And that doesn't involve a live animal

I suspect at some point in the next decade or so the rules will be the same as for the Hands & Heels races - you must carry the stick for safety reasons, you can "show" the stick but you can not use it unless it is a safety issue. At which point you have to go in and explain your actions to the stewards.

This would make much better viewing for the general public, better understood by punters, rules much clearer for the jockeys, and a fairer more level playing field for everyone.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I suspect at some point in the next decade or so the rules will be the same as for the Hands & Heels races - you must carry the stick for safety reasons, you can "show" the stick but you can not use it unless it is a safety issue. At which point you have to go in and explain your actions to the stewards.

This would make much better viewing for the general public, better understood by punters, rules much clearer for the jockeys, and a fairer more level playing field for everyone.

Exactly, then if it's used, they VAR it in the stewards room to be sure it's purely for safety reasons, if it isn't it = ban or disqualification

So much better viewing

 

[millitiger]

The amount of whinging and kick back from jockeys and some trainers, is really taking the positivity from this move, when viewed by the general public.

It makes me cringe reading some articles and the comment threads on Facebook and that's as someone who carries a stick out hacking- god knows what it looks like to a complete non-rider, when the industry appears so reluctant to stop excessively whipping horses.

 

[reynold]

BHA hopes first disqualification 'sends clear message' to jockeys over the whip before Cheltenham

The BHA says it hopes the disqualification of Lunar Discovery from second place in an Ayr bumper – the first such sanction under Britain's newly... Read More

www.racingpost.com

BHA view on the whip bans. L. Williams had been given several warnings during the bedding in period, including written warnings.

 

[Fred66]

To be honest it’s only right that the horse is disqualified as otherwise in close finishes trainers/owners will put pressure on jockeys to break the rules to get the result.

I know it’s a change but they have had a bedding in period and advised through this time if their ride would have resulted in a ban.

There are bound to be those who feel it unfair, but they will get used to it.

I do think they need to have some flexibility though, as you could have a scenario with a jockey o the favorite coming towards the last fence, used all his whip and horse swerves, so what does he do ? Can’t pull up as he’d be banned for not trying, can’t hit because he’ll be banned and horse will be disqualified so does he just let the horse create a dangerous situation?

 

[Teaselmeg]

I suspect at some point in the next decade or so the rules will be the same as for the Hands & Heels races - you must carry the stick for safety reasons, you can "show" the stick but you can not use it unless it is a safety issue. At which point you have to go in and explain your actions to the stewards.

This would make much better viewing for the general public, better understood by punters, rules much clearer for the jockeys, and a fairer more level playing field for everyone.

100% this ^^

What those complaining at the moment don't seem to get, is that it is the optic of seeing horses whipped to win races which is not acceptable, regardless of whether you think it hurts the horse or not, at best the horse is being scared into running faster. Mainstream TV will stop showing it, sponsors will pull out, if the public find it unpleasant viewing. Racing is already starting to struggle with lower attendances, it needs to be seen as proactive in horse welfare to keep the crowds coming, not winge about it. Jockeys will get used to it and will learn not to break the rules, because there is no point if you might actually be disqualified.

 

[Parrotperson]

I suspect at some point in the next decade or so the rules will be the same as for the Hands & Heels races - you must carry the stick for safety reasons, you can "show" the stick but you can not use it unless it is a safety issue. At which point you have to go in and explain your actions to the stewards.

This would make much better viewing for the general public, better understood by punters, rules much clearer for the jockeys, and a fairer more level playing field for everyone.

This. A thousand times this. The sooner the better. I’m old now so I’ve been watching racing for 55 years. Never been comfortable with the way jockeys use the whip.

Hands and heels (whips for correction only) is the way to go. Otherwise mark my words racing will be banned.

 

[RachelFerd]

Sadly the coverage mainly shows our current population of jockeys up for being the unfeeling, unthinking bunch of numpties that they really are. I would know, I spent too much of my life in Newmarket. A top trainer I worked for banned all staff and jockeys from carrying whips because he was sick and tired of seeing horses getting beaten up at home for no good reason.

The clear answer to the whip debate was to stop use for "encouragement" and retain for "safety" only. The best horse still wins - it's just perhaps the definition of 'best' changes to the most willing rather than the most coerced.

The optics of whip use in racing are absolutely terrible.

And yes, getting hit at full force by a padded whip still REALLY hurts. Whips work because they hurt. If they didn't create pain, or a negative sensation, they wouldn't work at all. Racing needs to stop claiming the unclaimable, that whips can cause no negative discomfort, whilst also simultaneously creating negative reinforcement to make horses go faster. It's one or the other - you can't claim both things.

 

[Bob notacob]

Also has anyone else noticed it's mostly the jumps gang that are getting uppity? Maybe the flat lot would say more if this was happening just before Royal Ascot?

The jumps gang" know that sometimes the whip all you have to bring up a tired horse from falling. That few seconds of adrenaline can save a horse and jockey.

 

[sakura]

Sadly the coverage mainly shows our current population of jockeys up for being the unfeeling, unthinking bunch of numpties that they really are. I would know, I spent too much of my life in Newmarket. A top trainer I worked for banned all staff and jockeys from carrying whips because he was sick and tired of seeing horses getting beaten up at home for no good reason.

The clear answer to the whip debate was to stop use for "encouragement" and retain for "safety" only. The best horse still wins - it's just perhaps the definition of 'best' changes to the most willing rather than the most coerced.

The optics of whip use in racing are absolutely terrible.

And yes, getting hit at full force by a padded whip still REALLY hurts. Whips work because they hurt. If they didn't create pain, or a negative sensation, they wouldn't work at all. Racing needs to stop claiming the unclaimable, that whips can cause no negative discomfort, whilst also simultaneously creating negative reinforcement to make horses go faster. It's one or the other - you can't claim both things.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I don't get why there are so many comments on FB/racing forums supporting the jockeys saying they should strike and the BHA should stop pandering to people

Also the trainers defending the jockeys

I hate seeing the way they use the whip, it's not palatable, yet people defend it??

 

[Parrotperson]

Sadly the coverage mainly shows our current population of jockeys up for being the unfeeling, unthinking bunch of numpties that they really are. I would know, I spent too much of my life in Newmarket. A top trainer I worked for banned all staff and jockeys from carrying whips because he was sick and tired of seeing horses getting beaten up at home for no good reason.



The clear answer to the whip debate was to stop use for "encouragement" and retain for "safety" only. The best horse still wins - it's just perhaps the definition of 'best' changes to the most willing rather than the most coerced.

The optics of whip use in racing are absolutely terrible.

And yes, getting hit at full force by a padded whip still REALLY hurts. Whips work because they hurt. If they didn't create pain, or a negative sensation, they wouldn't work at all. Racing needs to stop claiming the unclaimable, that whips can cause no negative discomfort, whilst also simultaneously creating negative reinforcement to make horses go faster. It's one or the other - you can't claim both things.

Thanks for saying so articulately what I’ve been trying to articulate so badly for months!

You can’t claim the whip doesn’t hurt or frighten if you say they don’t feel it! It’s nonsense. Paul Nicholls is the worst at this ‘the whip doesn’t hurt or frighten them’ crap.

It’s gotta stop. Otherwise game over. Literally. .