BHA Whip Rules

[RachelFerd]

What I found even more bonkers about that is Cheltenham is a Jockey Club owned course isn't it, so where's that decision been made? By Cheltenham's marketing team, or JC Head Office?!

JC isn't the BHA (you may be clear on that already) but JC is really just a commercial outfit these days - too much of conflict of interest for it to be both the major commercial outfit in racing as well as the regulatory body - hence the creation of HRA (now BHA) in 206.

So JC is not involved in creation and enforcement of whip rules - but from a commercial angle it knows full well that whips don't appeal to the wider general public they would like to turn up to Cheltenham.

But agree, it creates a bigger, stupider mess for racing!

 

[teapot]

JC isn't the BHA (you may be clear on that already) but JC is really just a commercial outfit these days - too much of conflict of interest for it to be both the major commercial outfit in racing as well as the regulatory body - hence the creation of HRA (now BHA) in 206.

So JC is not involved in creation and enforcement of whip rules - but from a commercial angle it knows full well that whips don't appeal to the wider general public they would like to turn up to Cheltenham.

But agree, it creates a bigger, stupider mess for racing!

My point was who signed off the marketing decision to photoshop out a whip from an advertising poster, not who changed the whip rules. You may want to read my post again as I specifically mention the marketing team

Very aware the JC and BHA are two different things.

 

[humblepie]

I didn't notice the missing whip until I saw it mentioned on social media - I just thought she was celebrating. I don't get the artistic changing of the ad from vibrant horse and jockey colours to almost a negative effect. The photo is so much more eye catching with the original colours.

 

[RachelFerd]

My point was who signed off the marketing decision to photoshop out a whip from an advertising poster, not who changed the whip rules. You may want to read my post again as I specifically mention the marketing team

Very aware the JC and BHA are two different things.

I thought you might have meant that the marketing team of the same org that are presiding over the rule changes had photoshopped it out (which would have been even weirder). Lots of people do still get in a muddle about JC role in regulation given that they used to be in charge.

My experience of JC mar/comms recruitment is that they're keener on marketing skills then they are of active knowledge of equestrian and racing industry, although most of the senior personnel back when I knew who was doing what there were from sports marketing backgrounds. I think its a very interesting symptom of them knowing full well that the whip isn't appealing - and knowing full well that racing's social license to operate is on a bit of a knife edge. BHA would do well to consider that fully.

[PS - I once photoshopped a horse poo out of large-scale poster I was designing to be on display at Royal Ascot - that was a funny day at work]

 

[teapot]

I thought you might have meant that the marketing team of the same org that are presiding over the rule changes had photoshopped it out (which would have been even weirder). Lots of people do still get in a muddle about JC role in regulation given that they used to be in charge.

My experience of JC mar/comms recruitment is that they're keener on marketing skills then they are of active knowledge of equestrian and racing industry, although most of the senior personnel back when I knew who was doing what there were from sports marketing backgrounds. I think its a very interesting symptom of them knowing full well that the whip isn't appealing - and knowing full well that racing's social license to operate is on a bit of a knife edge. BHA would do well to consider that fully.

[PS - I once photoshopped a horse poo out of large-scale poster I was designing to be on display at Royal Ascot - that was a funny day at work]

No no, I know the difference Interesting though if marketing isn’t thought through enough because people aren’t truly aware of what they’re working on.

I had photoshop ears forward once, that made me smile The BHS can be quite hot on ‘correct’ image portrayed in photography too.

Has Racing Post published anything about the poster? I’ve only seen the H&H article where the photo had been taken by a staff member!

 

[RachelFerd]

No no, I know the difference Interesting though if marketing isn’t thought through enough because people aren’t truly aware of what they’re working on.

I had photoshop ears forward once, that made me smile The BHS can be quite hot on ‘correct’ image portrayed in photography too.

Has Racing Post published anything about the poster? I’ve only seen the H&H article where the photo had been taken by a staff member!

Not sure - I don't read the RP anymore because I have well and truly said goodbye to my involvement with racing.

As a marketing person, i think it is often helpful when big orgs listen more to their marketing teams - they often have far better insight about what the general public think and feel than the policy guys do.

An ex of mine was a jockey and could never get his head around the fact that the JC and BHA weren't the same thing any more - it did my head in trying to explain it over and over again.

 

[reynold]

Second disqualification for overuse of the whip as review committee finds nine riders in breach of new rules

Mavis Pike has become the second horse in as many weeks under the new whip rules to be disqualified after her rider James Turner was found to have... Read More

www.racingpost.com

This week's bans - so far - as 3 more jockeys are to be considered with their results due friday.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Flat jockeys are kicking up a fuss now

 

[Gamebird]

Flat jockeys are kicking up a fuss now

They must all be coming back from their extended winter holidays in the Caribbean/Dubai/skiing...!

 

[splashgirl45]

They all need to grow up, the rules are clear, if they win by breaking the rules that is cheating IMO. Look at something like athletics, if the pressure changes on the starting blocks they are e
Eliminated, guess what we don’t get that many false starts now…. Jockeys have to realise that in the publics eyes hitting a horse continually in a hard finish is not acceptable. I think disqualification should be used to sharpen up the jockeys and if disqualified they will get pressure from trainers and owners and will lose out on prize money. This whip problem has been going on too long now and the jockeys need to obey the rules

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

They must all be coming back from their extended winter holidays in the Caribbean/Dubai/skiing...!

Aye its all the ones who have been riding abroad for the winter that are narking not the ones who have been punting round the beaches all winter here

 

[Gamebird]

I think this is a reasonable viewpoint:

Whip latest: Patrick Mullins and Ed Chamberlin reaction

Patrick Mullins’ main issue with the new whip rules in Britain is the timing of their implementation.

www.sportinglife.com

 

[reynold]

Tom Marquand made a valid point yesterday in RP. He's going to be out injured for the whole of the flat bedding in period and with a shoulder injury rather than a leg injury he won't be able to 'practice' off the horse whilst recovering.

I presume some of the NH jockeys have also been off injured for the whole of the NH bedding in period as well.

Perhaps in these unique situations the BHA could give an individual jockey a personal 'bedding in' period if they've been off for injury and been unable to practice?

 

[bluehorse]

The jumps gang" know that sometimes the whip all you have to bring up a tired horse from falling. That few seconds of adrenaline can save a horse and jockey.

Perhaps a horse that’s too tired to jump safely should just be pulled up? I know horses fall for other reasons but tiredness is obvious and probably one of the most preventable causes of falls.

 

[fetlock]

In theory yes. But in practice it's a lot easier to balance and ride with your stirrups "up" on a galloping horse than it is to ride long enough for your leg/heel to be of any use.

There's also a huge difference in the way flat and jumps jockeys ride. Flat ride a lot shorter as they need to be more aerodynamic. They can get really low in the saddle and most of them push out a finish with their body over the horses withers and neck. Jumps ride longer as obviously they need to be able to balance going over a jump and take into account any dodgy jumps thrown in for them. A horse and jockey that lands full of running after the last will usually ride a finish like a Flat jockey. One that has been thrown around, hailed a taxi or had to drive the horse into the last fence is on the back foot so they are more likely to ride the finish from back in the saddle not over it. It's messy but it does the job. The majority of yards now also see the benefit of using a regular physio for the horses. But this only happens on race days btw. We don't ride like that at home. Rarely do the horses come off the bridle fully let alone do the work riders get down and scrub. And when we do we are up over the withers not on their backs.

Do the hands and heels apprentices ride as short still?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Do the hands and heels apprentices ride as short still?

Depends on the jockey and trainer. Most ride a touch longer until they find their feet and racing fitness. Some think they are smart and try to cock the dock so when we saddle we drop their Irons a good few holes for them.

 

[millitiger]

How much do you need to practice not whipping a horse repeatedly?

I'm so sick of the excuses.
Now apparently the jockeys whip horses so much, they do it subconsciously and can't count the strikes themselves.
And we wonder why the public perception of horse sport is so low

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

How much do you need to practice not whipping a horse repeatedly?

I'm so sick of the excuses.
Now apparently the jockeys whip horses so much, they do it subconsciously and can't count the strikes themselves.
And we wonder why the public perception of horse sport is so low

They are acting like spoilt brats to be perfectly honest. If jockeys are that worried they will screw up they can take themselves back to the racing schools to use the equicisers, to Jack Berry or Oaksey House or ask about as a lot of jockeys and yards have their own equicisers that are mostly used to get fitness levels up. They have known about this for ages, they have got things changed as well because of the fuss they caused. I do agree doing this right before Cheltenham is stupid as you are making a spectacle of the absolute WRONG thing the week should be focusing on. It should be about the horses and some if the best jumps racing in the world. And it is already by far and away being over shadowed by the whip rules. I know its being done now to make sure the public are very aware the rules are changing for the better for the horses. But it would have been better to bring it in at the change of season at the end of April and come Christmas time put out a press release that says "look how well our jockeys have adapted to the new whips rules over summer". The flat should have changed at the turn of the year so by the time the turf season and the classics hit they can crow about how well they have adapted too whilst punting round the beaches.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

They really aren't helping themselves... Surely they need to take a look at WHY people wanted the whip banned... Surely the general public, are one of the biggest stakeholders you need to keep onside???

'Livid' Paul Nicholls hits out at BHA over timing of new whip rules

Paul Nicholls has expressed his frustration at the BHA over its handling of the new whip rules that caused controversy after being implemented just... Read More

www.racingpost.com

All the trainers and jockeys crying about it is just leaving a bad impression and making them look like they don't give a s*** about the horses

 

[ester]

‘But we’ve always done it like this and it’s fine, you just don’t know enough about it’ .

is it their ability to count or the ‘technique’ that’s an issue or a bit of both?

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

‘But we’ve always done it like this and it’s fine, you just don’t know enough about it’ .

is it their ability to count or the ‘technique’ that’s an issue or a bit of both?

Knowing some of our lads struggle to count 6 circuits of the sand gallop I'm nor surprised they struggle in a race.

I've worked in racing for nearly 19 years. A lot has changed in that time. One thing that hasn't changed is the fuss created by the professionals when people try to change "what's always been done". They need to get their head out of the sand and adapt. It's the same in every walk of life - adapt or die out. They will kick up a stink, make their thoughts and feelings very well known, scream blue murder when it's one of their own horses being disqualified and in a month or so when they realise nothing is going to change back to how it was they will pipe down and knuckle down harder on their jockeys and the jockeys will knuckle down harder to make sure they get things right.

It will all work out in the end but there will be a poop storm first.

 

[humblepie]

I was watching the racing on TV today and I thought it was really noticeable the difference. Much more pushing the horse out.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Be interesting to see if HS gets a ban, as he's one who's always come across quite whip happy, lots of shoulder slapping

Just ban the thing bar from for safety/emergencies, then there would be no having to count...

 

[Bob notacob]

A lifetime ago I learned a salutory lesson . It was the west kent hunt pt to pt and we had a monsoon just before the start .6 inches of water on the course. Stewards delayed the race for the maximum 15 minutes allowed ,then we walked out to our destruction. WE knew what was coming and Baa,d like sheep . Had to be at least an 18 horse field and they fell like an advance on the Somme!. I came into the 12th fence and the horse in front of me fell. My horse (barely 15 3 )But a seasoned hunter(and complete hard nut) jumped the fence jumped the horse and then jumped the jockey as a triple bounce(show off also). I lost my whip. I thought I was dead meat ,but went to riding with hands and heals . Horse responded and got me home 4th . Lesson learned , Whips are an illusion . No substitute for getting down and riding!

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I'm surprised how much flack the BHA are getting on racing pages. Surely anything that reduces welfare issues is a good thing for the sport

Didn't get to see the racing yesterday but watched some of the finishes on the ITV FB page and the finishes looked so much more palatable

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I'm surprised how much flack the BHA are getting on racing pages. Surely anything that reduces welfare issues is a good thing for the sport

Didn't get to see the racing yesterday but watched some of the finishes on the ITV FB page and the finishes looked so much more palatable

It's more because of the timing of the changes not the changes themselves per se. What other sport introduces new rules mere weeks before a major competition? Most do it at the changing of seasons so everyone is well versed in the new rules before the big, big events.

 

[splashgirl45]

I was watching the racing on TV today and I thought it was really noticeable the difference. Much more pushing the horse out.

I thought the same and it was so much nicer to watch and we still had some thrilling finishes without the horses being walloped. I’m no fluffy bunny but was getting fed up with so many whip happy jockeys winning races and keeping them. If a few of them get the horse disqualified by their overuse of the whip the trainers and owners will not be happy , but it’s long overduevIMO

 

[reynold]

Nine bans handed out to jump jockeys in latest whip review committee findings

Britain's jump jockeys continue to adapt to the new era of whip rules, with the number of suspensions handed out by the BHA's whip review committee... Read More

www.racingpost.com

This week's bans, including Brian Hughes

 

[splashgirl45]

Not impressed with the attitude of Richard Patrick moaning that they will be scared to use the whip, so they bloomin well should be and should use their brains and know how many times they are allowed to use it and where… disqualification of the horses would make them take notice and not think they can keep whacking when at the end of a hard race.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Nine bans handed out to jump jockeys in latest whip review committee findings

Britain's jump jockeys continue to adapt to the new era of whip rules, with the number of suspensions handed out by the BHA's whip review committee... Read More

www.racingpost.com

This week's bans, including Brian Hughes

McCain can do all the complaining he likes about Hughsies one but he broke the rules and got the ban. At least they are sticking to their word at the moment with bans.