BHA Whip Rules

[Crazy_cat_lady]

If it doesn't hurt or frighten them, why is there need for it to be used then for anything other than safety?

Why do some jockeys use it so excessively?

 

[RachelFerd]

Thanks for saying so articulately what I’ve been trying to articulate so badly for months!

You can’t claim the whip doesn’t hurt or frighten if you say they don’t feel it! It’s nonsense. Paul Nicholls is the worst at this ‘the whip doesn’t hurt or frighten them’ crap.

It’s gotta stop. Otherwise game over. Literally. .

Or, in two words: Schrodinger's Whip

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

 

[Parrotperson]

Or, in two words: Schrodinger's Whip

very good. Schrodinger's whip indeed!

 

[sbloom]

The jumps gang" know that sometimes the whip all you have to bring up a tired horse from falling. That few seconds of adrenaline can save a horse and jockey.

So they'll have to making better judgement calls and pull up more often? Why would you put a tired horse over an obstacle that is too much for it and then whack it "to be safe"?

 

[splashgirl45]

The jumps gang" know that sometimes the whip all you have to bring up a tired horse from falling. That few seconds of adrenaline can save a horse and jockey.

That’s fine use the whip to avoid a tired horse falling and then pull him up!!!!! Don’t continue to risk his life..

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

That’s fine use the whip to avoid a tired horse falling and then pull him up!!!!! Don’t continue to risk his life..

Or hers, or - as someone said on a video entitled "What the boys get up to on their holidays" that I put up - their life as they may not identify as male.

I kid you not. They can't even leave the animals alone! And to be honest the horse identified more like pigs and hippos wallowing in the muddy puddle!

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I am probably being naive here but would jockeys riding with slightly longer stirrups enable them to use their heels more effectively. They ride so short currently that I can't see how the horses can even feel their heels and of course the jockeys then go right back onto their horses loins in a finish while pushing hard.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I am probably being naive here but would jockeys riding with slightly longer stirrups enable them to use their heels more effectively. They ride so short currently that I can't see how the horses can even feel their heels and of course the jockeys then go right back onto their horses loins in a finish while pushing hard.

In theory yes. But in practice it's a lot easier to balance and ride with your stirrups "up" on a galloping horse than it is to ride long enough for your leg/heel to be of any use.

There's also a huge difference in the way flat and jumps jockeys ride. Flat ride a lot shorter as they need to be more aerodynamic. They can get really low in the saddle and most of them push out a finish with their body over the horses withers and neck. Jumps ride longer as obviously they need to be able to balance going over a jump and take into account any dodgy jumps thrown in for them. A horse and jockey that lands full of running after the last will usually ride a finish like a Flat jockey. One that has been thrown around, hailed a taxi or had to drive the horse into the last fence is on the back foot so they are more likely to ride the finish from back in the saddle not over it. It's messy but it does the job. The majority of yards now also see the benefit of using a regular physio for the horses. But this only happens on race days btw. We don't ride like that at home. Rarely do the horses come off the bridle fully let alone do the work riders get down and scrub. And when we do we are up over the withers not on their backs.

 

[humblepie]

Flat jockeys new rules bedding in to new rules starts today I think

 

[Gamebird]

I think with regards to Cheltenham the problem might be UK jockeys gathering bans in the run up which prevent them from riding at the Festival - for instance Lorcan Williams (though I rather think Harry Cobden might be a bit narked at the poster above who referred to Lorcan as Paul Nicholls' top jockey!). Meanwhile, unless they ride over here, Irish jockeys do not have that risk so will all be present and correct at Cheltenham. They may incur bans whilst riding at Cheltenham, but those will not be considered or started until after the end of the Festival, so there is virtually zero risk to the Irish of missing Festival rides. The Irish have always had to adapt to different whip rules to ride over here, so they may actually have the upper hand. Or they may struggle like everyone else. It remains to be seen. Jockeys like Daryl Jacob who ride regularly on both sides of the Irish Sea with different rules on either side may prove the best at adapting. Again, it remains to be seen.

Elf, out of interest do you ride out with a whip? Our lot never do, except interestingly for the jockeys - I guess it's habit for them.

 

[humblepie]

Gamebird - I agree. I’ve not done the maths as to the period in which an offence could result in a Cheltenham has passed but imagine there’s a lot of caution being taken.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Elf, out of interest do you ride out with a whip? Our lot never do, except interestingly for the jockeys - I guess it's habit for them.

No most of us don't ride out with a stick as routine. It is compulsory to carry one when schooling here. One lad rides every lot with one - no idea why, he doesn't need it, he's just an idiot - but the jockeys only carry one when schooling, doing a piece of work or that particular horse needs one. Some us will pick up a stick for a piece of work depending what horse we are on.

 

[Gamebird]

No most of us don't ride out with a stick as routine. It is compulsory to carry one when schooling here. One lad rides every lot with one - no idea why, he doesn't need it, he's just an idiot - but the jockeys only carry one when schooling, doing a piece of work or that particular horse needs one. Some us will pick up a stick for a piece of work depending what horse we are on.

To be fair I don't know what our guys do at home (other than normal days, when I know they don't use one), as I only ride for them at racecourses, and obviously we're not schooling or doing a piece of work there! However I suspect it's much the same. I don't remember seeing any whips in photos. I will ask about schooling when I see everyone in a fortnight. Just interested after someone above commented on a trainer banning whips for exercise and me thinking 'we don't use them anyway'.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

To be fair I don't know what our guys do at home (other than normal days, when I know they don't use one), as I only ride for them at racecourses, and obviously we're not schooling or doing a piece of work there! However I suspect it's much the same. I don't remember seeing any whips in photos. I will ask about schooling when I see everyone in a fortnight. Just interested after someone above commented on a trainer banning whips for exercise and me thinking 'we don't use them anyway'.

One major faux pas Cheltenham has made is doing their advertising with the whip airbrushed out. Its obvious it's supposed to be there and they are drawing unnecessary attention to the situation by removing it.

 

[Gamebird]

One major faux pas Cheltenham has made is doing their advertising with the whip airbrushed out. Its obvious it's supposed to be there and they are drawing unnecessary attention to the situation by removing it.

Agree. It's made a tricky situation worse, and also made them into a laughing stock.

 

[tristar]

So they'll have to making better judgement calls and pull up more often? Why would you put a tired horse over an obstacle that is too much for it and then whack it "to be safe"?

and probably totally unbalance it while socking it in the gob at the same time

 

[teapot]

Agree. It's made a tricky situation worse, and also made them into a laughing stock.

What I found even more bonkers about that is Cheltenham is a Jockey Club owned course isn't it, so where's that decision been made? By Cheltenham's marketing team, or JC Head Office?!

 

[stangs]

One major faux pas Cheltenham has made is doing their advertising with the whip airbrushed out. Its obvious it's supposed to be there and they are drawing unnecessary attention to the situation by removing it.

You say that but I spent weeks seeing the ad every morning as I sat on the train, and I only realised they'd airbrushed the whip out when the everyone online started kicking off about it. To me, it just looked like the jockey was doing a fist pump.

When you look at the ad, you completely forget that they use whips and that's the 'magic' of what they did (tried to do).

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

You say that but I spent weeks seeing the ad every morning as I sat on the train, and I only realised they'd airbrushed the whip out when the everyone online started kicking off about it. To me, it just looked like the jockey was doing a fist pump.

When you look at the ad, you completely forget that they use whips and that's the 'magic' of what they did (tried to do).

Then the ad seems to work for non-racing focused people as it was the first thing I noticed! Where's the whip Rachel was waving? Well if it was doing its job then maybe racing should have kept schtum and not mentioned the lack of it.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

So they'll have to making better judgement calls and pull up more often? Why would you put a tired horse over an obstacle that is too much for it and then whack it "to be safe"?

This is where it is going to get tricky.

(And by tired I don't mean dog tired and drunk just one that has run out of puff)

An out of contention horse that is tired will be pulled up because there is nothing to gain from jumping round.

A horse that is behind but there are so few runners in front and none behind will be kept going for place prize money if the horse is tired enough to keep galloping without slowing down much. It can't increase its pace.

A horse that is behind and is likely to fall will be pulled up regardless of place prize money available (mostly, some jockeys are complete idiots and that can not be denied).

And now it gets trickier.

A horse that is tired but still in contention for a place with other horses in close proximity will be kept going as not only are they all in the same boat I expect BUT if the Jockey pulled up then they would be pulled into the stewards room to explain why they did not ride the horse to finish in the best position possible.

Even horses not in contention for a place but with others still going behind it will be expected to be ridden to finish in the best position possible.

If this horse pulls up but the Ones behind don't and carry on past it either the Jockey pulling up will get pulled in or the ones that went past will get pulled in to explain their actions.

Mostly cautions are handed out but bans can be dished out if warranted.

The more you look into it the more reasons you can find for and against pulling up. But at the end of the day it's the Jockey on top of the horse that can feel what is still underneath it and things can be deceptive for those standing watching on.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I think it's wrong how they're expected to keep going where possible, I'd rather one be pulled up than flogged round at the back before falling fatally (there have been instances of this)

Unfortunately though, money talks due to betting (which is also bad, it's sickening when they go round the ring at Cheltenham and talk about hundreds of thousands in a single bet)

 

[teapot]

I think it's wrong how they're expected to keep going where possible, I'd rather one be pulled up than flogged round at the back before falling fatally (there have been instances of this)

Unfortunately though, money talks due to betting (which is also bad, it's sickening when they go round the ring at Cheltenham and talk about hundreds of thousands in a single bet)

Not just betting on course either - I've got two syndicate shares and some of the posts in the FB group, mainly from the blokes, are very online betting based.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Not just betting on course either - I've got two syndicate shares and some of the posts in the FB group, mainly from the blokes, are very online betting based.

What makes me laugh is when people ask me for tips or if I know which horse is going to win.

If I knew that I would be sipping mojitos in Barbados and not leading a horse round the paddock on a Wednesday night at a beach donkey Derby meeting!

 

[Old school]

I think with regards to Cheltenham the problem might be UK jockeys gathering bans in the run up which prevent them from riding at the Festival - for instance Lorcan Williams (though I rather think Harry Cobden might be a bit narked at the poster above who referred to Lorcan as Paul Nicholls' top jockey!). Meanwhile, unless they ride over here, Irish jockeys do not have that risk so will all be present and correct at Cheltenham. They may incur bans whilst riding at Cheltenham, but those will not be considered or started until after the end of the Festival, so there is virtually zero risk to the Irish of missing Festival rides. The Irish have always had to adapt to different whip rules to ride over here, so they may actually have the upper hand. Or they may struggle like everyone else. It remains to be seen. Jockeys like Daryl Jacob who ride regularly on both sides of the Irish Sea with different rules on either side may prove the best at adapting. Again, it remains to be seen.

Elf, out of interest do you ride out with a whip? Our lot never do, except interestingly for the jockeys - I guess it's habit for them.

The bans are reciprocal. Doubt any Irish jock wants to come home with a possible ban but find out about it after a bit, as in the Tues meetings. Then the dates could start to eat into Fairyhouse here. Apols re Nicholls. I had come across an interview with him talking about it.

 

[Old school]

Just after reading that Gordon Elliot apparently lies in bed at night worrying about the new rules.

Now wondering how I can shut off my ‘minds eye’....

 

[fetlock]

Not just betting on course either - I've got two syndicate shares and some of the posts in the FB group, mainly from the blokes, are very online betting based.

The group I’m in is the same re very focussed on the betting and very affronted about the whip rules.

 

[Gamebird]

What makes me laugh is when people ask me for tips or if I know which horse is going to win.

If I knew that I would be sipping mojitos in Barbados and not leading a horse round the paddock on a Wednesday night at a beach donkey Derby meeting!

I led up a 66-1 Festival winner once, and got a load of abuse from acquaintances that I hadn't tipped it for them. Erm, the reason it was 66-1 was because no-one thought it had a cat in hell's chance!!

 

[Gamebird]

The bans are reciprocal. Doubt any Irish jock wants to come home with a possible ban but find out about it after a bit, as in the Tues meetings. Then the dates could start to eat into Fairyhouse here. Apols re Nicholls. I had come across an interview with him talking about it.

Oh, for sure they're reciprocal, and I'm sure some of the Irish will go home with bans, but I think that's inevitable whatever the rule change had been, and the conversation was in relation to jockeys potentially missing Cheltenham. As far as I know there's only one definite so far, but there may be more news today. My point was that specifically in regards to the Festival Ireland are going to start with a full house, whereas there may be several UK based jockeys on the sidelines.

 

[reynold]

If the whip committee meets the tuesday after Cheltenham, and as explained on ITV last saturday that any bans imposed start 2 weeks after the committee meeting, does that mean that jockeys banned for rides at Cheltenham will be serving bans over the Aintree fixture? I don't know the exact dates for that so can't work it out.

If it does then the, probably multiple, Irish entries for the Grand National might be searching around for Irish jockeys.