Biomechanics people - toes sticking out

[sbloom]

If I stand with my knee caps pointing forward, my toes point out.
If I stand with my toes pointing forward, my knee caps point in.
Just the way I am, and I am pretty sure that nothing can change it, a conformational defect

I'm the same but I don't think it IS permanent, the more I learn about the body via saddle fitting. I think some bits are too weak and other bits are compensating, I'm currently transitioning to barefoot shoes as I'm sure that will be a good start.

 

[sbloom]

Both me and my brother (especially my brother) used to get told we walked like penguins. Apparently I rode like one too, but didn't know it until I had my own horse at 48, and my instructor grabbed my foot and said turn your toes in and almost broke my flipping leg as she forced my toes into the correct position, or that's what it felt like! Anyway, that was about 12 years ago, and my position is way better now, after endlessly forcing myself to walk and ride straight. At first it was painful but eventually got easier. They still escape sometimes (jumping) but default to the correct position otherwise.
FYI my brother still walks like a penguin

Interestingly even just regular shoes make us walk with toes out which isn't biomechanically correct and causes all sorts of issues due to pinching the toes and compromising function, this lady's blog is fascinating https://www.nutritiousmovement.com/advanced-foot-position/ and https://www.nutritiousmovement.com/the-foot-doctor-is-in/ - interesting background to how we learn to walk, toe-ing out etc

But like I say we all have naturally different legs some of which will turn out a bit more than others, and most will turn out more on wider horses.

 

[milliepops]

My mum told me I had flat feet when I was a child and I sort of taught myself to walk differently after that, my feet have naturally pointed forward since then. TBH i thought feet were supposed to point out slightly so it's interesting to read that.

 

[fiwen30]

I've given up worrying. My legs must be wonky anyway because if I stand with my feet facing forward my knees turn in. I wonder if it was all the practising to be a ballerina that I did when I was little - not that I ever was one, but I spent most of my time trying to stand with my toes pointing to opposite sides of the room ? Regretting it now ...

Glad I wasn’t the only one! I used to practice being ‘en pointe’ as a child, except it was in bare feet, and now my big toes both curl at the ends, which makes buying closed toe shoes difficult now! ?

 

[tallyho!]

Posture, even on the ground is probably the obvious factor I miss a lot… when I was doing other sports and riding when I was younger I was much less crooked. Does core strength have much to do with it when sitting on a horse? You have to have a certain amount for sure but is it something to build on?

 

[sbloom]

Posture, even on the ground is probably the obvious factor I miss a lot… when I was doing other sports and riding when I was younger I was much less crooked. Does core strength have much to do with it when sitting on a horse? You have to have a certain amount for sure but is it something to build on?

Definitely, and interestingly, apparently, higher level riders tend to be more crooked than more novice riders, it seems we're not very good at undoing our asymmetries but build on them instead! Top horse's pelvises, in a small study by The Horse's Back Blog, tend to be more damaged/distorted than lower level horses, tragic really.

 

[ycbm]

Does core strength have much to do with it when sitting on a horse? You have to have a certain amount for sure but is it something to build on?

Crikey yes! It's your core strength that keeps your legs still, just for a start.

I've noticed a huge difference in the time I've been doing pilates.
.

 

[sbloom]

Crikey yes! It's your core strength that keeps your legs still, just for a start.

I've noticed a huge difference in the time I've been doing pilates.
.

Yes and no, the right saddle makes a TON of difference, if you're working really hard to keep your legs where they should be, especially just keeping them in alignment, then you could do better. At the extreme the effort of fighting a saddle is highly detrimental to the way of going.

 

[ycbm]

Great thank you! I’ll go look at those two now.

I wonder if anyone can comment on this, if, In my case I have bad very tight hips anyway and as mentioned I noticed my toes sticking out on these two very wide horses.
Back on my own my toes don’t stick out but I am getting quite achy.
Is riding the wide horses doing me good (if it’s stretching my hips) or really not helping me out at all?! Bit concerned now I’ve realised they are effecting my hips.
On the plus one of them I can ride with no stirrups which is something I can’t do with my own so I thought that might be good for me in general.

Sorry op!

I have a narrow pelvis and I sit twisted (more?) on wider horses and my hip joints hurt. I just can't rider wider horses at all now I'm older.
.

 

[ycbm]

Yes and no, the right saddle makes a TON of difference, if you're working really hard to keep your legs where they should be, especially just keeping them in alignment, then you could do better. At the extreme the effort of fighting a saddle is highly detrimental to the way of going.

I agree but my saddles haven't changed since I started pilates

ETA And I would argue that a bad saddle makes your legs move but in a good saddle core strength is fundamental to keeping them still (unless you're blocked in! )

 

[tallyho!]

Crikey yes! It's your core strength that keeps your legs still, just for a start..

Thank God I’ve got enough for that ????

 

[tallyho!]

Don’t worry too much OP… watch the jockeys, eventer or sj peeps. They’ve amazing core and leg strength and the variety of toe angle is mind boggling. Far too many factors I suppose to pin in down to one thing but I’d have to agree with sbloom that getting the saddle right is half the battle on its own.

 

[Nevin's Run]

This thread is my happy place So many other pointy-toers! I've been riding with my toes out for 36 years and it's a horrid blight on all my photos I don't know anyone else who does. It makes me feel crass and a blob. I look at people with their toes and lower legs facing forwards like they're just sitting on a chair and it's like a different breed, how do they do that! Even my non-horsey mum points out my pokey toes, which really helps

 

[Sossigpoker]

Toes will stick out if you clench your buttocks or if the outside of the hip is tight. Pilates is great for improving position in the saddle.

 

[Spotherisk]

OP try (at standstill) standing in your stirrups, on tip toe so as high as you can - I’d suggest holding the mane or a strap - then sitting down slowly every so slowly, by bending your knees and hips first a bit, the ankles follow. Do it a few times, it does help to ‘wrap around’ the horse.

 

[tallyho!]

OP try (at standstill) standing in your stirrups, on tip toe so as high as you can - I’d suggest holding the mane or a strap - then sitting down slowly every so slowly, by bending your knees and hips first a bit, the ankles follow. Do it a few times, it does help to ‘wrap around’ the horse.

Yes I have done this and still do although I didn't know it could straighten toes but makes sense - go further once you can balance well at a standstill and do it in walk and trot