Bone spurs on hocks

[sbloom]

Dunno... Just what people said, and there were a f*ck ton more horses on Legend and Adequan and hock injections. The yard used to have Legend clinics, where the vet would show up and shoot up everyone for a reduced fee. It was like crack lines in the inner city. Might have been how the vets dealt with everything. Might have been the amount of post-legged QHs (many), who all had arthritis by the time they were 10. I honestly don't know (I'm not a vet and I don't play one on TV). Just saying what I observed and what the vets said 20 years ago.

It wasn't a performance yard, either, where people were pushing FEI levels. Most people were happy trail riders or putzing about at First Level.

Hmm, sounds like horses banging around on the forehand developing compensatory movement patterns to me...and those post legged QHs can look, and feel, a lot better after postural work too. Using joints and muscles the wrong way is the number one risk factor, I would hazard a guess.

 

[Rockman]

Got everything crossed that I could possibly cross for you both!

 

[wren123]

Good luck today @ycbm

 

[Red-1]

Aaagh, just checked in hoping for an update...

 

[ycbm]

Waiting here for the vet. He is travelling worse every time and is now shivering both hind legs when picking out his feet. Whatever it is seems to have gone critical. That's probably good at this point.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Waiting here for the vet. He is travelling worse every time and is now shivering both hind legs when picking out his feet. Whatever it is seems to have gone critical. That's probably good at this point.

Yeah, that's actually good...but not good, of course. Good for diagnostic purposes, at least.

I was exercising a horse that would shiver when picking out both hind legs and with him it ended up being stifle related according to the vet, but he also had some hock arthritis. He'd also put whatever hoof you had down rather quickly if you let him. The owner ended up injecting the hocks with something (can't recall) and I don't remember the stifle treatment details. Honestly, she was in denial that the horse had issues and it was hard for the vet to get through to her. The horse would buck during flying changes, and when asked to collect the canter. That and I felt like his hind limbs didn't flex enough or that he really didn't want to come through and under himself. I gently voiced my concerns, she did have an exam done, and some treatment (hocks, at least), but then I moved away and haven't kept in touch so much. I'm pretty sure that horse had neck issues too. But anyway, that was that horse, and not your horse.

I'm just happy to see when owners take things seriously. Ludo is lucky to have you.

If it's just the hocks, that should be easy to manage, I hope. There are a fair amount of options available these days, thankfully.

 

[ycbm]

Bugger. It's not the hocks, the spurs are a red herring. Just waiting to block the fetlock to rule it out but vet is already pretty sure it's the stifle. He showed up obviously lame, flexion and lunge. It's difficult to believe how fast he has deteriorated in two weeks

 

[ycbm]

It's the fetlock! None of us expected that! X raying now. Could possibly be the foot.

 

[Cortez]

It's the fetlock! None of us expected that! X raying now. Could possibly be the foot.

Is that actually good news, in a way?

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's cautiously good that it's not the stifle. Fingers firmly crossed that whatever it is is easily fixable.

 

[ycbm]

Is that actually good news, in a way?

Very, prognosis for stifle is pretty poor. Hoping for a bone chip we can whip out or arthritis we can treat.

 

[ycbm]

Nothing very obvious, but he does have a deformed pasterm bone which is longer on one side than the other. Possible inflammation around the joint. Going back Friday to block to find the specific location.

 

[Red-1]

I'm glad you are getting answers. Fingers now crossed for Friday.

 

[Michen]

Could it be a mild soft tissue injury. Just thinking if Bear who had such a niggling injury around that area and it was so hard to diagnose. Took two scans and a review by an orthopedic surgeon to say “yep- that’s an injury”.

 

[ycbm]

Could it be a mild soft tissue injury. Just thinking if Bear who had such a niggling injury around that area and it was so hard to diagnose. Took two scans and a review by an orthopedic surgeon to say “yep- that’s an injury”.

Very much so, M, I've been thinking of you all the way home. My current theory is that he could cope with the wonky bone until I took him to a place with waxed surfaces and that it gave him an RSI to work on the wax. Either in a tendon/ligament or in the joint itself. It will be interesting to pinpoint the location. I'm not sure I'm up for paying for MRI, I would want convincing that would change the treatment and the prognosis.

 

[Cortez]

Very much so, M, I've been thinking of you all the way home. My current theory is that he could cope with the wonky bone until I took him to a place with waxed surfaces and that it gave him an RSI to work on the wax. Either in a tendon/ligament or in the joint itself. It will be interesting to pinpoint the location. I'm not sure I'm up for paying for MRI, I would want convincing that would change the treatment and the prognosis.

Yes, wax surfaces are quite difficult for many horses. Glad you're finding some answers.

 

[ycbm]

The fetlock block was amazing. He stuck his nose down and started shoveling sand with it, while trotting a 10m circle on the lunge, then stepped sweetly into canter, still with his nose on the floor. He's never, ever, reached down like that in his life. I swear he said "thank goodness, you've fixed it at last! ".

I'd eat my hat if the other fetlock doesn't have an even worse deformity, it grows a much bigger flare, he's equally muscled and i have always thought something bilateral was going on. I'm so glad I've never tried to remove the flares, he needs them for support, I think I'm going to get some pressure to do remedial shoeing but I'm definitely not going to do that until we are sure it wasn't an RSI from waxed surfaces. And maybe not even then. After all, his foot is landing with the pedal bone flat, laterally, and if we shoe him to bring the wonky bone upright it will only mean that the pedal bone is not then landing flat.

I could slap the breeder who didn't correct this when it was possible when he was a tiny foal. All it needed was a bit of foot trimming before the growth plate sealed.

If i can just keep him sound to hack on straight lines I'll be happy, he's a fabulous hack, and such a lovely person. All the vet students, vet nurses and the big important vet surgeon were saying how lovely he is. No sedation for the x rays, again.

I'll update on Friday when we've pinpointed exactly where the issue is, and probably ask for experiences of fixing it on another thread.

 

[ycbm]

Thanks for all the support everyone, it's really appreciated.
.

 

[splashgirl45]

That sounds @ bit more hopeful,, good job it wasnt the stifle, I lost my mare to a stifle injury she did in the field, she was 24 and retired but it was a shock to lose her that way…keeping my fingers crossed for a good outcome…shame it wasnt corrected earlier as he was looking like he would be a mega dressage horse for you.. hopefully you can still enjoy hacking him

 

[ycbm]

Stifle is a nightmare. Even the vet admits only 60% success and her definition of success will be "signed off to go back to full work" not "still in full work 2 years later".

I was mentally booking a knacker man. I'm good at catastrophising

I'm not good at competing, and I'm getting old, I'm not worried about giving up dressage if we can keep him sound and happy.
.

 

[GoldenWillow]

Very glad you're getting some answers and it looks like it could be good news, as far as it can be with a horse that isn't right. I'm with you with the catastrophising, however much you tell yourself not to! Everything crossed for Friday.

 

[Art Nouveau]

Stifle is a nightmare. Even the vet admits only 60% success and her definition of success will be "signed off to go back to full work" not "still in full work 2 years later".

I was mentally booking a knacker man. I'm good at catastrophising

I'm not good at competing, and I'm getting old, I'm not worried about giving up dressage if we can keep him sound and happy.
.

I'm so pleased for you. You and Amber's Echo are two of the posters who most inspire me to get back into horses when my baby is older. I love following your journeys, and understand so much more about the importance of following up on niggles. I wish you and Ludo all the best

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

So glad it’s not his stifle YCBM, my old horse had stifle arthritis and it’s notoriously hard to treat

 

[ponyparty]

What a (sort of…) relief. Glad you’re getting answers, and hopefully after Friday’s appointment you’ll have a plan of action.

 

[Alibear]

I'm really glad to hear the vets have made progress and it's potentially fixable. With the worry about the stifle what did they think it was? Best wishes for tomorrow too.

 

[Marigold4]

Best wishes for tomorrow. Hope you find something "fixable".

 

[ycbm]

I'm really glad to hear the vets have made progress and it's potentially fixable. With the worry about the stifle what did they think it was? Best wishes for tomorrow too.

Stifle would have been bad because all the easy to fix stuff would have shown when they were x rayed last October. So it would have been degraded cartilage, meniscal tear/very rapid onset arthritis or something a bad, all of which would have had me thinking along the lines of retirement or even PTS. Stifle problems are horribly difficult to fix.

That it's in the fetlock is a bonus and the best result I think would be that it's in the joint. Next best would be slight tendon/ligament strain above the foot. Either potentially caused by the RSI effect of arena work on a wonky pastern. Worst would be in the foot because it would be unclear which structures were involved without MRI.

I have decided that since we now know he grew up with wonky pastern bones, I'm not prepared to finance expensive treatments which would have little chance of long term results when we can't correct his bones. I know I am going to get pressure to shoe him "remedially". I doubt if I will take that advice because if we bring the wonky bone more into line it will only move others elsewhere out of line and shift the issue somewhere else. We can't straighten the bones and the joint spaces look evenly loaded.

I will have steroids into joints if that's appropriate, but if it seems to be tendon or ligament involved then I'm of the belief that the only real cure for that is time. I would hope to be able to hack slowly in straight lines as rehab, but if necessary I will turn him away for 6 months and review.

I keep running what he did when the fetlock block was in over and over in my mind. I know this has been going on for years. He never progressed in his work the way he should have. I backed off difficult work that would have put more weight on his back end, and until 10 days ago he was sound, even at a lameness workup.

But when that block numbed it, he looked like a huge weight had been taken off his feet and of his mind. If horses are so determined not to tell us when things are hurting them, I begin to question whether we are right to ride them at all.

He'll be my last, I can't go through this anguish again.
.

 

[Alibear]

Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain. I also understand your last paragraphs and thoughts that perhaps he is the last horse for you. It's one that I have had and still question. Currently I'm perhaps fooling myself that no human or animal goes through a normal life span without experiencing various pains and discomforts and the degree that they are managed , combined with personality usually defines the level that we all live and work at? I'm confident there are a great many traditional pet species that live a lot of their lives in a level of discomfort to. Wild animals are routinely affected too. Then I get to can life even exist without pain?

 

[Red-1]

Stifle would have been bad because all the easy to fix stuff would have shown when they were x rayed last October. So it would have been degraded cartilage, meniscal tear/very rapid onset arthritis or something a bad, all of which would have had me thinking along the lines of retirement or even PTS. Stifle problems are horribly difficult to fix.

That it's in the fetlock is a bonus and the best result I think would be that it's in the joint. Next best would be slight tendon/ligament strain above the foot. Either potentially caused by the RSI effect of arena work on a wonky pastern. Worst would be in the foot because it would be unclear which structures were involved without MRI.

I have decided that since we now know he grew up with wonky pastern bones, I'm not prepared to finance expensive treatments which would have little chance of long term results when we can't correct his bones. I know I am going to get pressure to shoe him "remedially". I doubt if I will take that advice because if we bring the wonky bone more into line it will only move others elsewhere out of line and shift the issue somewhere else. We can't straighten the bones and the joint spaces look evenly loaded.

I will have steroids into joints if that's appropriate, but if it seems to be tendon or ligament involved then I'm of the belief that the only real cure for that is time. I would hope to be able to hack slowly in straight lines as rehab, but if necessary I will turn him away for 6 months and review.

I keep running what he did when the fetlock block was in over and over in my mind. I know this has been going on for years. He never progressed in his work the way he should have. I backed off difficult work that would have put more weight on his back end, and until 10 days ago he was sound, even at a lameness workup.

But when that block numbed it, he looked like a huge weight had been taken off his feet and of his mind. If horses are so determined not to tell us when things are hurting them, I begin to question whether we are right to ride them at all.

He'll be my last, I can't go through this anguish again.
.

I totally understand, this was the reaction of Jay Man. He wasn't lame before, but when blocked to the correct place he transformed. He was like a Wella hair advert, arching his neck and really stepping out. First trot, he gave a squeal and just looked so happy.

I hope the vet can give you a long term solution.

 

[sbloom]

Thank goodness for owners that follow up early and don't back off, and glad you got to a not-so-bad diagnosis and prognosis. Do give Yasmin a shout and see if she thinks she can help, otherwise it all sounds like some very wise thinking