Brave people post "good shoeing" pix please
- Thread starter cptrayes
- Start date
trina1982
Well-Known Member
A bit like allowing a barefoot hoof to be the shape it wants to be?
*runs for cover* lol
Trina x
unbalanced
Well-Known Member
No one want to do my horse?
Holly Hocks
Well-Known Member
No they were too busy deciding whether my horses' shoes were steel or aluminium, natural balance or not natural balance and whether she has underrun heels or not.....experts eh? They can't agree on anything!
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
Exactly like that
I would not use a farrier who tried to alter the gait of a sound horse using shoes - if they move that way and are sound then leave well alone.
I have had horses shod and unshod, I've spent many hours watching a KCP trimmer and discussing it with him. I have nothing against unshod/shod. Current horse's work/lifestyle requires shoes - if it didn't he wouldn't have them. Incidentally he's been seen by one of the top orthopaedic vets in the country in the last 6 months, who said my farrier could not be doing a better job, that normally he refers people to a remedial farrier but there was no need, and that it was pretty rare to see such clean x-rays with such good foot conformation in a 12 yo that has evented every year since it was 5, so I'm confident I am doing the best I can for this horse.
A Guilding
Well-Known Member
If you were wondering what I meant by high low heel then that would take pages.
I was joking about clipping his ear, he is huge.
Im not cagey or crptic, Its just a huge subject and im crap at typing.
It has one leg longer than the other, P3 has a higher angle in the front right (palmer angle) than the front left, the right knee is a bit higher, the scapular angle is a bit more acute, in a nutshell
trina1982
Well-Known Member
Exactly like that
I would not use a farrier who tried to alter the gait of a sound horse using shoes - if they move that way and are sound then leave well alone.
I have had horses shod and unshod, I've spent many hours watching a KCP trimmer and discussing it with him. I have nothing against unshod/shod. Current horse's work/lifestyle requires shoes - if it didn't he wouldn't have them. Incidentally he's been seen by one of the top orthopaedic vets in the country in the last 6 months, who said my farrier could not be doing a better job, that normally he refers people to a remedial farrier but there was no need, and that it was pretty rare to see such clean x-rays with such good foot conformation in a 12 yo that has evented every year since it was 5, so I'm confident I am doing the best I can for this horse.
Sounds like you've got a keeper
Any chance of some pics - could be valuable for this thread?
Trina x
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you've got a keeper
Any chance of some pics - could be valuable for this thread?
Trina x
No, for two reasons. Firstly I am incredibly happy with the job my farrier does, and it is totally unfair for me to post pictures of his work on the Internet and invite comment without his knowledge (I'd like him to keep shoeing for me - horse came in crippled thurs night, wouldn't weight bear, he was out 8.30 am fri morning to find the abscess, sorted it and is booked in for mon to replace shoe - refused payment). Secondly, because horse has an abscess and is a bit sore I don't think it's terribly fair on him to ask him to stand on 3 legs whilst I fanny about taking photos!
I hope that doesn't sound like I'm not entering into the spirit of this thread - I think hoof stuff is fascinating, but my farrier hasn't asked to be critiqued in the public domain.
trina1982
Well-Known Member
If you were wondering what I meant by high low heel then that would take pages.
I was joking about clipping his ear, he is huge.
Im not cagey or crptic, Its just a huge subject and im crap at typing.
It has one leg longer than the other, P3 has a higher angle in the front right (palmer angle) than the front left, the right knee is a bit higher, the scapular angle is a bit more acute, in a nutshell
Right, i see! Thank you, makes perfect sense and i believe the horse i used to ride has similar. Incidentally i showed her photo to my 'back man' (who also did horses) and straight away he mention her shoulder causing a problem, think he mentioned an inflection (?) of the pastern and her probable dislike of the right rein. He was spot on and she has one upright hoof (right i think) that is also flat with a high heel. Certainly interesting.
Is that fixable with shoeing or should it just be left as is, if the horse has one leg longer than the other (or is that an illusion caused by muscle problems in the shoulder?). The horse i know has been like this for years and years (and also had lot of years of imtermittant lameness).
Sorry, more questions
Trina x
trina1982
Well-Known Member
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
people do seem to be taking things I say the wrong way this week so I am glad I am making sense to someone!FWIW my farrier doesn't trim the frog, never rasps or pares the sole and does not rasp high up the walls. There's no flare on my horses hooves, he respects the wonky shape of the hinds and doesn't try and alter them and this is the first abscess this horse has ever had. He's also never had a day off lame before this abscess. He did get a bit jarred up on the hard ground last season (hence the vet visit), but I think I'm to blame for that, not the farrier
cobmum
Well-Known Member
Before and after pics would be great too, with explanation of what has been done and why. I will be the first to admit i know very little in this area but willing to learn - we all have to start somewhere and are not born knowing so any positive info is appreciated.
Ladydragon
Well-Known Member
Only that I really need to get some research done on feet before shoving piccies on... Most of the terms used in the critique flew straight over my head...
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Only that I really need to get some research done on feet before shoving piccies on... Most of the terms used in the critique flew straight over my head...
Sorry! Can you ask for a translation if it's a bit too much? I personally hate the terms medial and lateral. For those of use who are not hoof pros, lateral is "on the side of the foot facing outwards" and medial is "on the side of the foot facing into the other leg"
AG the bar shoes for a Pedal Bone fracture (properly P3 but commonly called Pedal bone, though there are several it and means the big hoof shaped one) make complete sense to me and I'm on record on this forum speaking against a barefoot trimmer who wanted someone with a P3 fracture to remove the shoes.
Some of the posts are sounding a bit snipey folks. If you don't want to post pictures, just don't, but please don't feel you need to tell us why you aren't going to it does not help the thread at all.(with the exception of the quoted post above)
Spotted Cat you sound like you have a gem there!
skint1
Well-Known Member
Ok, here are some pics we took of my daughter's mare's feet before deciding to change farriers. It was a sad decision and not one I took lightly, I want to trust my farrier because I feel that I am paying them for their expertise, I don't want to have to cajole them, beg them, check up on them, question their judgement and I felt that I couldn't really do that with the old farrier.
I kept hearing that her heels were under-run, but of course I didn't really know enough to judge, and I kept asking him to address it, so he did this, and then I felt this wasn't the direction I wanted to go in and so I changed to someone who had a bit more enthusiasm for the job. So, to me, this is an example of less than good farriery anyway.
eta- we also had to look at her diet and change her down to 5 weekly cycles, but the thing is, we didn't know that, it would have been nice for our old farrier to have advised us, we would also have appreciated it if he'd said her heels were a problem and maybe put some options out there for us to think about but he didn't.
This mare is now barefoot and her feet have a fantastic shape to them, my new farrier put her in NB shoes with equipak for about 6 months (I think) and this really, really helped her. She then went back to "normal" shoes and then when she was turned away I first took her backs off and then a couple months later her fronts. I really don't think she could work without shoes but she's fine in the field though it's taken a long time with the fronts
I kept hearing that her heels were under-run, but of course I didn't really know enough to judge, and I kept asking him to address it, so he did this, and then I felt this wasn't the direction I wanted to go in and so I changed to someone who had a bit more enthusiasm for the job. So, to me, this is an example of less than good farriery anyway.
eta- we also had to look at her diet and change her down to 5 weekly cycles, but the thing is, we didn't know that, it would have been nice for our old farrier to have advised us, we would also have appreciated it if he'd said her heels were a problem and maybe put some options out there for us to think about but he didn't.
This mare is now barefoot and her feet have a fantastic shape to them, my new farrier put her in NB shoes with equipak for about 6 months (I think) and this really, really helped her. She then went back to "normal" shoes and then when she was turned away I first took her backs off and then a couple months later her fronts. I really don't think she could work without shoes but she's fine in the field though it's taken a long time with the fronts
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indie999
Well-Known Member
Sorry no pics as no shoes on now but I am too wanting to learn. When one of my ponies had a touch of laminitis we wanted to take the shoes off but the farrier just put on a slightly bigger shoe which really helped. He explained a bigger shoe would spread the weight ie to alleviate any discomfort. The only thing he said could happen is pony could catch the shoe and pull it off. We had one shoeing with larger shoes and then went back to normal size. The only thing my farrier doesnt do a lot of is clean up the sole of the foot and he sometimes very lightly trims the frog but most of the time they dont look scrupulously clean or flat etc like the first pictures on the post?
One thing I have found with old boy since shoes came off his feet still need trimming as regularly as when he had shoes on. Also in the summer he does take chunks out from the flint in the ground round here but in this wet mushy weather softer ground his hooves barefoot have remained much more perfectly shaped. They look so nice and perfect in the snow.
Skint1 initially I thought they are a big shoe on that foot but the heels look low on your horse so no expert at all but looks like angle is wrong?On your horses foot..not much hoof, so probably trying to help protect heel?? But hey I am no expert just my observation. However I dont really question my farrier as I trust his expertise completely. He does advise diet or ie when I didnt realise my horse had thrush he recommended to flush with some hydrogen peroxide etc or cornucrescine etc . But I always ask if his feet are ok and he always will tell me if the horse is too fat etc or right size(good doer).
One thing I have found with old boy since shoes came off his feet still need trimming as regularly as when he had shoes on. Also in the summer he does take chunks out from the flint in the ground round here but in this wet mushy weather softer ground his hooves barefoot have remained much more perfectly shaped. They look so nice and perfect in the snow.
Skint1 initially I thought they are a big shoe on that foot but the heels look low on your horse so no expert at all but looks like angle is wrong?On your horses foot..not much hoof, so probably trying to help protect heel?? But hey I am no expert just my observation. However I dont really question my farrier as I trust his expertise completely. He does advise diet or ie when I didnt realise my horse had thrush he recommended to flush with some hydrogen peroxide etc or cornucrescine etc . But I always ask if his feet are ok and he always will tell me if the horse is too fat etc or right size(good doer).
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Ladydragon
Well-Known Member
Medial and lateral I'm fine on...for ligaments...
Probably most of the above though and a few educated guesses on some other bits... I just do not have any 'anatomy of the hoof' knowledge... Uni work will finish in a few months though so I'll try and get my head around far more of it then... It is something I need to do and then I won't feel a bit of a numpty for not having at least a basic understanding of something that I do know I should have...
Anything that involves the vet and/or treatment 'above the fetlock' I'll hold my own discussing it...
But hooves, agghhhh, I know nothing... PS...new farrier did take the toes on the rear back a bit last week - he strikes the underneath of the front shoes a bit over reaching once he's warmed up and loose... And put a small roll on the front shoes as he noticed the horse can trip very slightly... They made sense although I have no judgement call on them...
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floradora09
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm happy with my farrier and his work, horse has been shod probably most of his life, and is now 16. My farrier's been shoeing him for nearly 2 yrs. He's shod every 4 weeks.
Last summer:
Followed by a 8 week break from shoes, he was coming back into work and not coping brilliantly, so we put fronts on, pics after his first shoeing:
Last summer:
Followed by a 8 week break from shoes, he was coming back into work and not coping brilliantly, so we put fronts on, pics after his first shoeing:
amandap
Well-Known Member
I know nothing about shoeing so thanks to all who have posted photos as it's all new and interesting to me.
floradora09 It's interesting how the heel angle has changed since the period out of shoes. Cptrayes, I don't wish to derail the thread this just struck me.
floradora09 It's interesting how the heel angle has changed since the period out of shoes. Cptrayes, I don't wish to derail the thread this just struck me.
floradora09
Well-Known Member
amandap- Yes, sorry it's quite hard to compare as the photos are taken from a slightly different angle, but I do agree with you. We're going to take him out of shoes for a 2-3 months every winter now, as it did seem to help his feet a lot, and gives my farrier some hoof to nail to come spring!!
AFlapjack
Well-Known Member
Ok here are photos of my boy. He is a week overdue (being shod wednesday this week) and he threw a shoe off his LF out hunting Xmas eve so it has a 'newer' shoe on.
Photos are in order: RF, RH, LH, LF
RF
RH
LH
LF
Photos are in order: RF, RH, LH, LF
RF
RH
LH
LF
Circe
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm going to be brave here now... people can be as brutal as they like, I feel bad everyday for letting this happen to my boy.
I 100% agree with the reasons for starting this thread. I've been around/ worked with horses for 30 + yrs, but to be honest, never paid much attention to their feet. Never had a problem. thats what I paid the farrier for...
4yr old tb, worked in a riding school for 12 months, sold to me as lame with seedy toe. Fed 1/2 bucket waste feed from race track and 1 bucket of lucerne chaff while in the riding school.
this is him after the 2nd farrier visit, he has solepack packed between the hoof and the shoe. ( to kill the seedytoe I was told. )
this is him after 4th farrier visit
A couple of months later my boy completely broke down, lost a large amount of hoof wall and had a dropped pedal bone. Cue change of farrier. I don't have any photos that show the separation of the hoof wall, I was too traumatised by the experience.
If anyone is interested I'll dig out the shoe that the new farrier removed from my boy on his first visit...very odd shape
this is after new farriers first visit
progression of the hoof
and 12 months later
Apologies for the photo overload, I just wanted to say that I had everyone tell me how good the first farrier was, how I was so lucky that he was doing jazz for me. I paid a hell of alot of money, asked questions and got fobbed off. I still don't understand if the farrier lost interest, or was overwhelmed, or why he didn't just stop what he was doing ?
I'll never try jazz barefoot on the fronts ( he doesn't wear shoes on the hinds ), but I've learnt so much from this forum and the barefoot threads.
I wish I'd known then what I know now.
Kx
PS, extremely happy with farrier now and how he shoes
I 100% agree with the reasons for starting this thread. I've been around/ worked with horses for 30 + yrs, but to be honest, never paid much attention to their feet. Never had a problem. thats what I paid the farrier for...
4yr old tb, worked in a riding school for 12 months, sold to me as lame with seedy toe. Fed 1/2 bucket waste feed from race track and 1 bucket of lucerne chaff while in the riding school.
this is him after the 2nd farrier visit, he has solepack packed between the hoof and the shoe. ( to kill the seedytoe I was told. )
this is him after 4th farrier visit
A couple of months later my boy completely broke down, lost a large amount of hoof wall and had a dropped pedal bone. Cue change of farrier. I don't have any photos that show the separation of the hoof wall, I was too traumatised by the experience.
If anyone is interested I'll dig out the shoe that the new farrier removed from my boy on his first visit...very odd shape
this is after new farriers first visit
progression of the hoof
and 12 months later
Apologies for the photo overload, I just wanted to say that I had everyone tell me how good the first farrier was, how I was so lucky that he was doing jazz for me. I paid a hell of alot of money, asked questions and got fobbed off. I still don't understand if the farrier lost interest, or was overwhelmed, or why he didn't just stop what he was doing ?
I'll never try jazz barefoot on the fronts ( he doesn't wear shoes on the hinds ), but I've learnt so much from this forum and the barefoot threads.
I wish I'd known then what I know now.
Kx
PS, extremely happy with farrier now and how he shoes
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm happy with my farrier and his work, horse has been shod probably most of his life, and is now 16. My farrier's been shoeing him for nearly 2 yrs. He's shod every 4 weeks.
Last summer:
Followed by a 8 week break from shoes, he was coming back into work and not coping brilliantly, so we put fronts on, pics after his first shoeing:
I personally wouldn't be happy with these shoes. They are set on so far forward that the breakover point (where the last of the horse's foot leaves the floor as it walks) has been artificially moved forwards by quite a long way. The last one in particular I would be very concerned about, the shoe is clearly out in front of his toe (though admittedly the toe appears to be a bit broken off)
It used to be very frowned upon 20 years ago to "dump" (rasp off) the toe. I think it is now widely recognised that bringing the breakover back by rasping off the toe and fitting the shoe back from the front edge is a good thing which will help to guard against soft tissue injury in the back half of the foot.
The heels are a different kettle of fish and a lot of owners should compare the heels on their own horse's shoes with them. These, as far as I am concerned, are correct. Unfortunately, a lot of horses are shod a lot shorter in the heel than this, either because the owner bugs the farrier that their horse pulls off shoes too easily, or because the farrier does not want the risk of the shoes being pulled off.
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Ladydragon
Well-Known Member
That's good news... Geez, poor thing looking at the one photo...
You're right, having some working knowledge of what the farrier does and why can't be a bad thing at all...The photo before the broken one kinda reminds me of how I used to see shoeing many moons ago before having a 25yr 'horse break'... Very upright or almost squarely parked onto the shoe...
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Ok, here are some pics we took of my daughter's mare's feet before deciding to change farriers. It was a sad decision and not one I took lightly, I want to trust my farrier because I feel that I am paying them for their expertise, I don't want to have to cajole them, beg them, check up on them, question their judgement and I felt that I couldn't really do that with the old farrier.
I kept hearing that her heels were under-run, but of course I didn't really know enough to judge, and I kept asking him to address it, so he did this, and then I felt this wasn't the direction I wanted to go in and so I changed to someone who had a bit more enthusiasm for the job. So, to me, this is an example of less than good farriery anyway.
eta- we also had to look at her diet and change her down to 5 weekly cycles, but the thing is, we didn't know that, it would have been nice for our old farrier to have advised us, we would also have appreciated it if he'd said her heels were a problem and maybe put some options out there for us to think about but he didn't.
This mare is now barefoot and her feet have a fantastic shape to them, my new farrier put her in NB shoes with equipak for about 6 months (I think) and this really, really helped her. She then went back to "normal" shoes and then when she was turned away I first took her backs off and then a couple months later her fronts. I really don't think she could work without shoes but she's fine in the field though it's taken a long time with the fronts
Well that's just dreadful
I would have no idea how a farrier would correct those collapsed heels and long toe in shoes, but that doesn't look like "it" to me. Perhaps AG will come on and tell us.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm going to be brave here now... people can be as brutal as they like, I feel bad everyday for letting this happen to my boy.
I 100% agree with the reasons for starting this thread. I've been around/ worked with horses for 30 + yrs, but to be honest, never paid much attention to their feet. Never had a problem. thats what I paid the farrier for...
4yr old tb, worked in a riding school for 12 months, sold to me as lame with seedy toe. Fed 1/2 bucket waste feed from race track and 1 bucket of lucerne chaff while in the riding school.
this is him after the 2nd farrier visit, he has solepack packed between the hoof and the shoe. ( to kill the seedytoe I was told. )
this is him after 4th farrier visit
A couple of months later my boy completely broke down, lost a large amount of hoof wall and had a dropped pedal bone. Cue change of farrier. I don't have any photos that show the separation of the hoof wall, I was too traumatised by the experience.
If anyone is interested I'll dig out the shoe that the new farrier removed from my boy on his first visit...very odd shape
this is after new farriers first visit
progression of the hoof
and 12 months later
Apologies for the photo overload, I just wanted to say that I had everyone tell me how good the first farrier was, how I was so lucky that he was doing jazz for me. I paid a hell of alot of money, asked questions and got fobbed off. I still don't understand if the farrier lost interest, or was overwhelmed, or why he didn't just stop what he was doing ?
I'll never try jazz barefoot on the fronts ( he doesn't wear shoes on the hinds ), but I've learnt so much from this forum and the barefoot threads.
I wish I'd known then what I know now.
Kx
PS, extremely happy with farrier now and how he shoes
Well words fail me about the before photos!
Don't beat yourself up, please. We all trust the farriers we pay to do a good job. It isn't your fault that you could not trust that one, you did what you needed to do and found a super one who put things right really well, didn't he?
To me as a Barefoot Taliban member, they are interesting because they show how much improvement is possible without removing the shoes when you have a really good farrier.
I'd still like to see the front of the shoe further back under the toe, but plenty of good farriers shoe to the front like that and you can't quarrel with the quality of the feet now.
To the people who think it looks like he butchered the feet, that has to be done to get air into the diseased foot. The bugs that cause the rotten feet like being without air, and if you can give them enough oxygen they find it much more difficult to multiply. If you don't take the foot apart like that, they shelter in the warm, moist dark breeding like rabbits and rotting the foot away.
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Circe
Well-Known Member
That's good news... Geez, poor thing looking at the one photo...
...
Yes, exactly, which is why I posted on this thread. When I tried to ask my farrier questions he would fob me off, "hes a typical TB, I'll sort the shape out when the seedy toe is fixed," he out right lied to me about the state of my boys feet.
I very foolishly didn't stand and watch him shoe my horse...Thats another mistake I don't ever repeat.
The main reason I like and trust my current farrier isn't because he does a marvelous job ( although I think he does, - there have been further improvements in my boys feet since the last photos ) its because I stand and quiz him about feeding, barefoot, why does he do this this or this, what are jazzys feet like this time, and he happily answers every question, in plain dummied down english.
Kx
trina1982
Well-Known Member
Ok, I'm going to be brave here now... people can be as brutal as they like, I feel bad everyday for letting this happen to my boy.
I 100% agree with the reasons for starting this thread. I've been around/ worked with horses for 30 + yrs, but to be honest, never paid much attention to their feet. Never had a problem. thats what I paid the farrier for...
4yr old tb, worked in a riding school for 12 months, sold to me as lame with seedy toe. Fed 1/2 bucket waste feed from race track and 1 bucket of lucerne chaff while in the riding school.
this is him after the 2nd farrier visit, he has solepack packed between the hoof and the shoe. ( to kill the seedytoe I was told. )
this is him after 4th farrier visit
A couple of months later my boy completely broke down, lost a large amount of hoof wall and had a dropped pedal bone. Cue change of farrier. I don't have any photos that show the separation of the hoof wall, I was too traumatised by the experience.
If anyone is interested I'll dig out the shoe that the new farrier removed from my boy on his first visit...very odd shape
this is after new farriers first visit
progression of the hoof
and 12 months later
Apologies for the photo overload, I just wanted to say that I had everyone tell me how good the first farrier was, how I was so lucky that he was doing jazz for me. I paid a hell of alot of money, asked questions and got fobbed off. I still don't understand if the farrier lost interest, or was overwhelmed, or why he didn't just stop what he was doing ?
I'll never try jazz barefoot on the fronts ( he doesn't wear shoes on the hinds ), but I've learnt so much from this forum and the barefoot threads.
I wish I'd known then what I know now.
Kx
PS, extremely happy with farrier now and how he shoes
Thank you for posting these (and please don't beat yourself up - you're not the first and won't be the last to trust your 'professional')
I would love to know the theory behind the obviously too big shoes. I believe the foot should be shod to mimic where the foot should be - but that foot had so much flare why would you want to encourage it to spread further?
The feet look much much better now though, and no doubt a diet change has helped reduce the flare, along with much better shoeing. My only comment would be that i *think* there could be a better heel height/angle but that is common with shod hooves. People - correct me if i'm wrong!
So glad your story has a happy ending though
Trina x
A Guilding
Well-Known Member
Dont be to Harsh on the farriers I have seen nothing to bad in these photos, As some of you clinicians know that conditions that attack the hoof capsule can be very climate driven, they can cause hoof capsule failure then they correct as conditions and treatments alter. The resecting of the wall to expose the seedy toe was the correct procedure, but I will only do that these days with a vet present as it could be termed a surgical procedure.
Circe
Well-Known Member
Thankyou. I do still get upset. My horse suffered so much. He had to wear a fibrecast on his hoof for a couple of months, as he managed to pull the shoe off, pulling yet more hoof wall off
, then abscessed for several months. I really thought I would loose him. The farrier is now trying to shoe him further back, but jazz has a habit of standing on his own feet, so its a very gradual thing.
Its interesting that anyone would say 2nd farrier butchered the hoof... thats actually what I asked the first farrier to do, but he said I wouldn't like the look of it, so he packed the separation with a betadine putty, which gave the seedytoe a lovely enviroment to grow.
Kx