Brave people post "good shoeing" pix please

[Rosehip]

This is my horse's left fore shod by a super qualifed remedial farrier at his own forge with all the facilities. Photos taken on the day she was shod.

My horse is a Welsh D who has had lami in the past although not at the moment or when these pictures were taken. She was in bar shoes last summer for 'footiness' although she had normal x-rays at the time. The farrier who put these shoes on changed her out of bar shoes.

These were her last set of shoes and I think I know all the problems with them as my trimmer has had a good look but pony is now BF so feel free to rip them apart and hit me with a few more if you want.

Well seeing as how no one has had the manners to acknowledge your post, I thought I'd give you my pennys worth on your girls feet.
I know very little really, but to me the shoe is too small and therefore looks 'tight' to the foot, also making the foot look very small and a bit boxy.
I like that the shoe is slightly set back on the hoof, but it is too short on the heal, and is contracting the whole foot.
Hope I havent just spouted complete claptrap! x

 

[ThePony]

IMO, the best way to find out about horses hooves, is to look at the real thing. Talk to the owners, ask who their farrier is, whether the horse has been lame/had abscess/ other problem, find out if there is a reason for a particular style of shoeing, research whether good looking feet/poor looking feet have a farrier in common.

I agree with SpottedCat that it is not ethical to post someone else's work on an open forum to be 'critiqued' by unqualified forum members, who can't agree amongst themselves. As far as I can tell, there is only one poster on this thread who is actually qualified to comment on some-one else's shoeing.

In an ideal worl then I would certainly agree with you. I am very fortunate to be on a yard with many farriers, wide variation in the feet and the horses and also the work that is expected of them. On account of being a bit of a nerd and a rather nosey person at heart then I used to often ask questions about the horse and the feet (carefully though as questions are often taken as a veiled critisism). I'm afraid it got me nowhere! Without exception the owners (some of them friends) seemed a little ill at ease with the natter and had neither understanding of the different shoes the horse had been through or the inclination to find out. It seemed generally accepted that if the feet were problematic that it was 'just one of those things' and down to the horse growing poor feet. Often blamed on any drop of tb blood that could be found in the horse!!

I certainly don't get the impression that this thread is a critique. It is very helpful to hear the back story from owners, with some posters able to specify landmarks on the foot that we can observe so that we can get our eye in. Immensley useful I think!

 

[ThePony]

Well seeing as how no one has had the manners to acknowledge your post, I thought I'd give you my pennys worth on your girls feet.
I know very little really, but to me the shoe is too small and therefore looks 'tight' to the foot, also making the foot look very small and a bit boxy.
I like that the shoe is slightly set back on the hoof, but it is too short on the heal, and is contracting the whole foot.
Hope I havent just spouted complete claptrap! x

I was wondering the same about the size - but I wasn't sure if that was down to the feathers making the hoof and shoe appear smaller in comparison. I wonder if the leg was clipped (argh!!) if the shoe might appear more 'normal'?

 

[cptrayes]

This is my horse's left fore shod by a super qualifed remedial farrier at his own forge with all the facilities. Photos taken on the day she was shod.

My horse is a Welsh D who has had lami in the past although not at the moment or when these pictures were taken. She was in bar shoes last summer for 'footiness' although she had normal x-rays at the time. The farrier who put these shoes on changed her out of bar shoes.

These were her last set of shoes and I think I know all the problems with them as my trimmer has had a good look but pony is now BF so feel free to rip them apart and hit me with a few more if you want.

I'm sorry unbalanced I missed your post .

I'm also not happy with the "look" of your pony's feet but I think she may be one you would need to see in the flesh. As a previous laminitic it may account for why they do seem to look, somehow, in a way that is impossible to explain "tight", but of course it's impossible to tell without being able to pick up her feet. It might also be that I'm just not used to looking at pony feet.

Was your pony happy in those shoes?

Would anyone else be questionning the size of the clip on a tiny foot, and the height of at least one of the nails?

 

[A Guilding]

Here is a case of frog condition, this horse has been in the field all winter and bought into work last march, its a polo pony. It had abscessed at some time before we saw it.
This trim is for the reception of a shoe that is important to say. the cleaning of the sole is done with a razor sharpe knife that will remove microns not shovel fulls

 

[cptrayes]

A G can you tell us if there was any particular reason to skim the whole sole clean like that with this horse, or do you routinely do that with the sole?

 

[amandap]

Please could someone explain what a squared toe shoe (as fitted to Spyda's horse) is designed to do?

 

[cptrayes]

Please could someone explain what a squared toe shoe (as fitted to Spyda's horse) is designed to do?

It is designed to bring back the point where the last of the horse's foot will leave the floor when it is taking a step forwards. The further back that point is, the quicker the foot leaves the floor, and the less strain is placed on the tendons in the back of the foot to "pull" the foot off the floor and the less chance there is of damaging those tendons. (At the moment of breakover the whole foot is acting like a lever on the end of the leg. The longer the lever, the stronger the force. The shoes are trying to make the lever shorter and lessen the force. Think of trying to open a paint tin with a screwdriver. Provided you get one strong enough, the longer the screwdriver, the easier it is to open the tin.)

A horse with no shoes on usually has a "breakover point" as it is called, a good way back from the front of the hoof wall. Shoeing with the squared toe is designed to mirror that. More and more horses are being shod with double clip front shoes to allow the toe to be brought back.

 

[Jesstickle]

Annoyingly I didn't take photos of feet when I last had a shod horse so the best I would be able to share would not be designed for the purpose

Interesting thread though and I'm pretty sure my farrier wouldn't mind me posting if only I had something I could post!

These are the closest I can find to the right type of piccy, but they aren't very clear as they are cropped from her whole body so you can't really say much about them. But they were lovely feet and I really rate my farrier

for comedy value!

 

[A Guilding]

A G can you tell us if there was any particular reason to skim the whole sole clean like that with this horse, or do you routinely do that with the sole?

I think it was unnecessary and for the camera, I will hit later

 

[Oberon]

Please could someone explain what a squared toe shoe (as fitted to Spyda's horse) is designed to do?

The shoe set back is to allow a more natural breakover and an attempt to engage the toe callous as seen in BF horses.

However the important thing to understand is that the sole and frog, as part of the weight bearing apparatus likes pressure AND release - not constant pressure.

 

[Rosehip]

I'm sorry unbalanced I missed your post .

I'm also not happy with the "look" of your pony's feet but I think she may be one you would need to see in the flesh. As a previous laminitic it may account for why they do seem to look, somehow, in a way that is impossible to explain "tight", but of course it's impossible to tell without being able to pick up her feet. It might also be that I'm just not used to looking at pony feet.

Was your pony happy in those shoes?

Would anyone else be questionning the size of the clip on a tiny foot, and the height of at least one of the nails?

Interesting that you thought the same about the 'tightness' Cptrayes, I also noticed the big, pointed clip and high nail and wondered if this was used to try and reduce any flare or shedding of the hoof due to the lami?
On the note of not being used to pony feet, the OP says that this mare is a Sec D, so about 14/14.2? Not tiny feet as we are seeing in these pictures....
My mare is a Fell,14.2 and BF, but her feet are MUCH bigger than this foot.... If you look through the feather to where the coronet band is, you can just about see that the new foot wanting to come down is largerr than the shod foot....

 

[Oberon]

A G can you tell us if there was any particular reason to skim the whole sole clean like that with this horse, or do you routinely do that with the sole?

Looking at the pics from a BF perspective - it sets bells, whistles and alarms in my head

Look like a classic Strasser trim.

Obviously being shod in prep for a shoe - it isn't too much of an issue. But if the farrier (which I am sure this farrier is sensible enough to know not to) continued to trim like that when an owner wanted to try BF - you can understand how horses go sore!

 

[cptrayes]

Smacked botty Oberon , keep it to shoes folks

 

[A Guilding]

Look like a classic Strasser trim.

That is just about the most offensive thing I have heard.

 

[Rowreach]

lol AG your son will be black and blue

Would he like to relocate to NI? I have a forge and 4 bed house available for a good farrier - seems to be a distinct lack of them here

I could post a few pictures of the work of some of our local farriers but they would shock you all to the core and I'd probably be run out of town

Very useful thread OP

 

[amandap]

That is just about the most offensive thing I have heard.

Lol! I must comment that is no where near like the 'full' Strasser trim I witnessed last year!

Thanks cptrayes and Oberon for the explanation about square toed shoes.

 

[cptrayes]

Time for some guidelines? Here are mine. For me, these are usually true, though if your horse is not like it you need to ask your farrier why, not tell him that he has it wrong ! These are not the whole story by any means, they are just, for me, the obvious ones that people with shod horses can be looking out for.

The heels of the shoe must completely cover the flat surface of the heels of your horse's feet. For me, stopping short of the end of the heel plane is a big problem.

The heels of the shoe can be both wider than your horse's heels and longer, though many farriers will not shoe this way especially if you whinge to him that your horse is pulling off shoes.

It is correct for the front of the shoe not to reach the front of the hoof. Some farriers shoe like this and others don't. Two clips are normal. So is one, or less common, none.

It is correct for your horse to have feet where the line of the front of the hoof does not have any obvious bend in it from the coronet down to near the ground. If the top half inch is a different angle from the rest this may show that your horse's feet are not properly balanced but you should ask your farrier about it.

It is correct for the line of the heel and the toe to be parallel, but not if this has been achieved by having a "broken" line in the front of the foot.

The sides of the frog should not be being pushed into by the heels of the shoes.

It is normal for the coronet band to be a smooth line from front to back, and any growth rings on the feet to be level and evenly spaced. Upward curves in the hair line or the growth rings may indicate incorrect pressure on the foot at that point.

If you are there watching when your farrier shoes, it is common for the shoe to be fitted slightly inside the edge of the hoof wall and then rasped back to the shoe once it has been nailed on. I had forty fits when I first saw this done, but later I realised that a barefoot horse normally wears off that outside bottom 1/4 inch of foot and that rasping it off is no different.


HEALTH WARNING

Taking this much interest in your horse's feet can result in the development of obsessive behaviour which will result in you lying in the dirt staring at hoof lines

 

[PolarSkye]

Time for some guidelines? Here are mine. For me, these are usually true, though if your horse is not like it you need to ask your farrier why, not tell him that he has it wrong ! These are not the whole story by any means, they are just, for me, the obvious ones that people with shod horses can be looking out for.

The heels of the shoe must completely cover the flat surface of the heels of your horse's feet. For me, stopping short of the end of the heel plane is a big problem.

The heels of the shoe can be both wider than your horse's heels and longer, though many farriers will not shoe this way especially if you whinge to him that your horse is pulling off shoes.

It is correct for the front of the shoe not to reach the front of the hoof. Some farriers shoe like this and others don't. Two clips are normal. So is one, or less common, none.

It is correct for your horse to have feet where the line of the front of the hoof does not have any obvious bend in it from the coronet down to near the ground. If the top half inch is a different angle from the rest this may show that your horse's feet are not properly balanced but you should ask your farrier about it.

It is correct for the line of the heel and the toe to be parallel, but not if this has been achieved by having a "broken" line in the front of the foot.

The sides of the frog should not be being pushed into by the heels of the shoes.

It is normal for the coronet band to be a smooth line from front to back, and any growth rings on the feet to be level and evenly spaced. Upward curves in the hair line or the growth rings may indicate incorrect pressure on the foot at that point.


HEALTH WARNING

Taking this much interest in your horse's feet can result in the development of obsessive behaviour which will result in you lying in the dirt staring at hoof lines

CPTrayes . . . thank you so much for this . . . I've been reading this thread with much interest having just had Kal shod by a new farrier. He (Kal, not the farrier) has very upright/boxy feet and doesn't grow a particularly thick hoof wall (despite supplements). What you've described above, fits perfectly with what his new farrier has done. Kal is only shod in front these days - he has been barefoot behind since late last summer and is coping brilliantly.

Thank you, too, for the health warning . . . I must confess I may be heading down this road!

P

 

[Ladydragon]

Here is a case of frog condition, this horse has been in the field all winter and bought into work last march, its a polo pony. It had abscessed at some time before we saw it.
This trim is for the reception of a shoe that is important to say. the cleaning of the sole is done with a razor sharpe knife that will remove microns not shovel fulls

That does look a lot like mine - albeit maybe not quite so clean and shiny...

The toe also pokes over the front of the shoe slightly and they do seem to be slightly longer at the back and extend ever so slightly without touching under the bulbous bit and an itsy bit wider at the back, almost like a bit of excess shoe or slightly too long in length - probably not explaining too well and I do mean small amounts... Although with all this mud then freezing cold I've not gotten down too close and personal since they were done on Wednesday...

Er, what's the sticky out bit on the outside edge on the right of the photo?

 

[GinaGeo]

Very interesting thread. Keep going! I wish I'd seen something like this about two years ago. I don't have pictures, but do have the X-Rays. Would they be any good to show what bad shoeing can do to the inside of the hoof?

My horse's are all unshod now- so no recent pictures either!

My ridden horse has had a lot of hoof issues over the last two years. It started off with my horse pulling shoes off, off fore, alot. This foot ended up being glued to the shoe as there was so little hoof left. Problem seemed to resolve over Winter and all was fine. His back began to get very sore, he'd almost sit down on touch. God I feel awful. We had the vet and after Flexion Tests, nerve blocks and X- rays, the problem was determined as his hind feet. While they didn't look too bad (to my very untrained eye at the time) the pedal bone had rotated backward, and were pointing upwards. This caused the back pain.

He was remedially shod and was sound and pain free due to it. He's been perfectly fine and has been competing regulalry since. But his off fore, gone boxy, is still very upright.

So his shoes have been pulled in an attempt to help widen the heel. He's sound on Tarmac and grass. I'll start a thread with some pictures for advice when I have a working camera.

 

[cptrayes]

We really need to see the outside of the foot to see whether there were any warning signs on the outside that people can watch for. I'll look out for your new thread because I'd like to see it, but perhaps not on here where we are trying to identify good shoeing?

As a point of interest, I believe that the backward rotation of the pedal bones that you mention in the hind feet can sometimes be seen by an outward curve of the front of the hoof (bullnose feet).

 

[Ibblebibble]

this thread is fascinating i haven't had my horses shod for about 5 years now so looking at shod feet is rather odd, didn't realise i had become so accustomed to seeing barefeet i wish i had some pics of my old girl and her feet, my farrier used to make her fronts from scratch rather than try to make standard shoes fit as she had odd shaped feet, the previous farrier didn't do that and quite often she felt very slightly lame after shoeing and i'd have to call him back out it would have been so interesting to get some opinions on the 2 farriers way of shoeing her.
I think it's sad really that i never paid as much attention to my horses feet when they were shod as i do now they are barefoot, i didn't feel the need to know anything because as far as i was concerned it was being taken care of by a professional, it wasn't until i changed farrier that i realised that they are not all of the same standard.

 

[samlf]

It is correct for the line of the heel and the toe to be parallel, but not if this has been achieved by having a "broken" line in the front of the foot.

what do you mean by this?

It seems so strange seeing shod hooves, I dont think I've touched a shod hoof in about 6 years :-O

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Your comment is also fairyland, sorry. I had trouble getting my own farrier to tell me what he was doing and why, never mind anyone else's! I can just imagine what response I am likey to get if I walk up to a farrier in a local livery yard who does not know me and start asking him why he is shoeing the way that he is

My farrier doesn't live in fairyland, neither do I. I don't know about you but I look at horses' feet all the time. Every time I see a horse, I look to see how it is shod, or not. In spite of the large number of photos on here, it does seem that actually there are only about 1/2 a dozen horses being pictured. I can see many more horses than that by going to a local show.
In the 40 yrs or so that I've kept horses I've had 4 farriers. 3 of them were 'linked' in that the 1st one trained the business partner of the 2nd one, who trained the 4th one. When the 2nd one relocated before the 4th one had finished his apprenticeship we used another locally well-known farrier. We did not like his work or attitude to the horses, so he only shod 3 times for us. All the good ones have been more than happy to discuss their work, with any-one who asked. The first one was very co-operative when a friends's 12 yr old wanted to take photos of him and his work for a school project.
Now I am beginning to understand why your posts are usually so anti-farrier.

 

[A Guilding]

what do you mean by this?

:-O

That is the only bit that is wrong, the heel angle and toe angle cant be parrelel it is mathematically impossible, unless the coronary band circumference was the same as the ground circumference, all the other points are good.

 

[ester]

It is correct for the front of the shoe not to reach the front of the hoof. Some farriers shoe like this and others don't. Two clips are normal. So is one, or less common, none.

sorry CP another query, is it possible to set the shoe back from the front of the hoof with one toe clip as opposed to two or none?

 

[ester]

what do you mean by this?

It seems so strange seeing shod hooves, I dont think I've touched a shod hoof in about 6 years :-O

I hope aliceflapjack doesn't mind but I added some lines to illustrate what I think CP means, if wrong am sure she will say!

so the yellow lines (actual lines of front wall and heel) are parallel, however the growth at the top of the hoof wall is coming down at a different angle, as roughly illustrated by the red line, so there is a broken angle on the front wall

therefore it the parallelity new word might be artificial and not following the growth of the foot.

 

[GinaGeo]

Of course, thought it was worth mentioning.

Yes, his hind feet did show that typical "bullnose". Wish I'd had the advice at my fingertips then, as we do now. It would have saved a lot of pain and heartache.

This is a very valuable thread. If it makes just one person, critically evaulate their horses feet, as opposed to just accepting that the proffesional must be doing right, then it's a success.

Thank You!

 

[whisp&willow]

ester: its a handy illustration, but that photo doesn't look square on to me- so the parallel-ity of it could be misleading!

and i wouldn't think that you could set a shoe back from the toe using a shoe with a toe clip.