Breeding - I know it’s always a bad idea but...

blitznbobs

blitznbobs

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As some of you may know I have a mare who is permanently lame -it’s now been more formally diagnosed but suffice to say it is somewhat good news as it’s due they think to a foaling (as In when the mare was born) injury originally... now my mum always bred horses when I was a kid but I always said only idiots breed horses but if you were to breed from a German Warmblood, what crosses would be interesting ... I’ve been musing about a Welsh d or an Irish draught...
 
It depends what you mean by "interesting" I would look to using a smaller stallion, less risk of getting something growing huge with the related issues many have, that is proven to be sound so must have a ridden record in one way or another and of a type I like so the offspring will hopefully be suitable to keep, I would probably avoid the ID because of the size, avoid the cob because the movement may not be something suited to me, my preferred option would be a small, correct and tough tb with an arab being 2nd choice if the mare was better suited to the type, either could suit me and both could be easy to sell if required.
 
Did you want this mare for something specific or just as a nice all rounder? Whats the end game for any foal? that would heavily influence any crosses i made.
 
I bred from my Hanoverian mare, I chose purely on what I would like myself and would be saleable if I needed it to be, I went for a Westphalian stallion with very famous lines and I knew personally some of the offspring - that was probably the biggest selling point tbh.
I had considered an ID cross (was eyeing up Avanti Archie) but in reality I wanted the foal for life and I feel like a sharper warmblood is just more up my street than an ID x. I don't know any welsh horses I would want myself although they are lovely to look at so they wouldn't have been a consideration. I may have been swung on a Spanish horse (only because I have had one and felt like the two mixed would have been amazing).
I have been lucky that I had an easy ride all the way through and my baby horse has turned out better than I could have ever imagined, of course there are risks with everything but I am over the moon I did it.
 
I always have a dressage bent - if I were to have a foal the likelyhood is it would be staying with us I like the idea of the welsh trot in a Warmblood... but would like the sanity that the Irish horses seem to bring.
 
Depends what you're breeding for. I've met a very nice oldenburg x lusitano who moved beautifully but was very sharp, I preferred him to some of the full iberians I've ridden though.
 
blitznbobs said:
As some of you may know I have a mare who is permanently lame -it’s now been more formally diagnosed but suffice to say it is somewhat good news as it’s due they think to a foaling (as In when the mare was born) injury originally... now my mum always bred horses when I was a kid but I always said only idiots breed horses but if you were to breed from a German Warmblood, what crosses would be interesting ... I’ve been musing about a Welsh d or an Irish draught...
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As owner of a welsh D stallion, read my post in breeding. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?766876-Proud-hobby-breeder!! However, I would not recommend breeding from a lame mare, unless there is a good reason that unsoundness won't be passed on. My stallion crosses very well with warmbloods, he actually refines plain heads, and puts that excellent hindleg action into his youngsters. Check out my album, the chestnut horse who is out of a KWPN mare.
 
cundlegreen said:
As owner of a welsh D stallion, read my post in breeding. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?766876-Proud-hobby-breeder!! However, I would not recommend breeding from a lame mare, unless there is a good reason that unsoundness won't be passed on. My stallion crosses very well with warmbloods, he actually refines plain heads, and puts that excellent hindleg action into his youngsters. Check out my album, the chestnut horse who is out of a KWPN mare.
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It’s due to an injury so won’t be passed on
 
I have a hann x irish cob and she has been a fabulous horse for me, she was a little slow for eventing, reaching her limit at BE Novice (but she was a fab horse at that level) and had lovely paces for dressage, the expression and scope of the WB and the definite rhythm of the cob.

if my welshie who is at PSG eyeing up Inter1 was bigger I'd put her to a WB :o I love the mix of pony brains and WB paces and even though I'd love a great big horse, the inbetweeny 15 - 15.2hh is SO easy to look after.

Latest project is a 15.1 hann. If she turns out to be any good I'd be considering a big sporty welsh husband for her ;)
 
Not all ID are sane, esp the more sport bred ones. The heavier you go the less action you might get. Honestly i don't think a "welsh trot" would do you any favors in the dressage ring - it may look flashy but i can see a lot of dressage moving back more classical. The problem with a heavy bone horse and a finer boned is you tend to get one with a mash of both which may look out of proportion overall but its a total gamble, it may work and look amazing. If it was my mare i would be looking at another similarly built animal with phenomenal movement and offspring that carry that trait too.
 
If you were me, and I was breeding something for myself, I think I would be inclined to look at something spanish. I saw a WB/PRE cross recently, and all the things I'm not keen on in each breed were diluted by the other. I was really really taken by him, which is quite unusual for me!
 
Is this the mare with pain/lameness coming from her hips?
Di the vets now know exactly what is causing it?
Personally I would not consider breeding from a mare with hip issues, the extra weight and risk at birthing would make it a definite no from me.
I would buy what I want rather than risk mare and foal.
 
Yes, the old HIS (Hunter Improvement Society but now called something else as not PC) used TB stallions of good temperament, conformation and who had remained sound during their racing career. They were awarded premiums and were available for use on mares to breed all round performance horses which they did very successfully.
 
twiggy2 said:
Is this the mare with pain/lameness coming from her hips?
Di the vets now know exactly what is causing it?
Personally I would not consider breeding from a mare with hip issues, the extra weight and risk at birthing would make it a definite no from me.
I would buy what I want rather than risk mare and foal.
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It’s not her hips further imaging has found the problem is from her right hock ...
 
Do you have the set up for a mare and foal (eg foaling box, securely fenced fields suitable for little ones etc)? Do you have company for the foal for weaning time, preferably out with a herd of other youngsters and a nanny or 2? Are you prepared to pay 4 years of farrier trims, vets bills, insurance costs, feed bills, extra livery if you don't have your own land etc and not have a horse you actually enjoy riding/ is sound and healthy at the end of it?
If the answer to all the above is 'Yes' then you're bonkers and crack on. I've done it twice, I lost around 10k when my first homebred was PTS with a rare condition aged 18months and my now yearling is lovely and totally worth all the countless thousands of pounds and hours, but I only did it because the dam is very precious to me and competed to a good level herself so it totally proven. Otherwise, go out and just buy what you want!
 
Given free choice I would go for connemara stallion. Or failing that a tb or trakhener.

I have a Hann x PRE, and while I absolutely adore him and he is without doubt a very lovely and beautiful horse, he's not really got the build or paces for pure dressage (i bought him to event, but he won't sj consistently). Both his parents were good movers - his dam had typical loose, floating warmblood paces, and his sire had flashy, typey PRE paces, and his paces are just a bit of an odd mix between the two. And he's just so stacked up front that riding him properly is quite hard work - to sit up straight I feel like I'm trying to lie down on his neck. He does have a gorgeous temperament though, and I think he's super cool.

In your shoes I'd worry with an ID that you'd end up with just a bit too much horse (dimensions wise), and while I can see the appeal of a Welsh D cross, unfortunately both the wbxwelsh mixes I've know have been fruit the loop, and while I like sharp, I'm not a massive fan of ridiculous :p
 
TheMule said:
Do you have the set up for a mare and foal (eg foaling box, securely fenced fields suitable for little ones etc)? Do you have company for the foal for weaning time, preferably out with a herd of other youngsters and a nanny or 2? Are you prepared to pay 4 years of farrier trims, vets bills, insurance costs, feed bills, extra livery if you don't have your own land etc and not have a horse you actually enjoy riding/ is sound and healthy at the end of it?
If the answer to all the above is 'Yes' then you're bonkers and crack on. I've done it twice, I lost around 10k when my first homebred was PTS with a rare condition aged 18months and my now yearling is lovely and totally worth all the countless thousands of pounds and hours, but I only did it because the dam is very precious to me and competed to a good level herself so it totally proven. Otherwise, go out and just buy what you want!
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Hence the thread title... I live on my parents old stud / farm - we have 8 foaling boxes with cctv in all of them I have kept horses for over 30 years and lost horses in lots of horrible ways (including a 3 year old who died of acute Cushing which is so rare my vet who was a year from retirement had never seen it before..). at the moment it’s a thought experiment as I have always said breeding is a fools errand but my mare is such a nice person and so beautiful/ look at me, it feels like such a waste to leave her doing nothing in the field for however long she remains comfortable... but I do feel lucky that I have this option as I know many don’t .
 
Im guessing if you are considering a Welsh D then a Connemara wouldn't be too small?

All the plus points of a sporty pony stallion but without those Welshie quirks that so often come with Ds
 
be positive said:
It depends what you mean by "interesting" I would look to using a smaller stallion, less risk of getting something growing huge with the related issues many have, that is proven to be sound so must have a ridden record in one way or another and of a type I like so the offspring will hopefully be suitable to keep, I would probably avoid the ID because of the size, avoid the cob because the movement may not be something suited to me, my preferred option would be a small, correct and tough tb with an arab being 2nd choice if the mare was better suited to the type, either could suit me and both could be easy to sell if required.
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Ignoring any soundness issues with this specific mare, my choice would be an Arab. I would look for something that is approved by one (or more) warmblood society, eg IS Orlow OX (Licensed for VZAP, Oldenburg, Hanover and Trakehner). So basically a stallion that is tested and approved for adding more 'blood' which means the foal can be fully registered with the appropriate breed society.
 
This is such a dangerous thread, I was only thinking about this, this morning with my mare. She is out of a ISH by a traditional gypsy vanner show cob and at 16.1 she is built like a tank with a cracking attitude to work, lovely kind nature and is sharp and forward BUT she doesnt have very expressive paces and wont have the ability for the bigger tracks so daydreaming (as you are OP so ignore the missery guts!!) I was thinking either a nice eventing TB or a WB. I'd like to keep/ add to the height and have something nice and sporty/ athletic. Coming from my mare it will be coloured. Im not a fan of welshies and im not sure i can visualise the foal you would get in a positive way with regards to its conformation and way of going for dressage.

And by the way, im definitely day dreaming its way too much hard work for my liking so will let some fool do the breeding and i will spend the equivalent on a nice 2 or 3 year old for the same money as it would cost to get a foal to that age breeding from my own mare, lol :)
 
is the mare a warmblood? i would only breed from a stallion of very tough breed, in body and mind, trak or anglo arab spring to mind, quality without too much size.

pre cross wb is well known but personally not for me.

traks can vary considerably in type some look very araby.

then some tbs have a reputation for breeding tough comp horses, but look at how much tb your mare has to balance proportions.
 
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