British Eventing and British Breeding

[honetpot]

I sorry its a market led economy. Top flight riders make their living from selling horses, lessons etc, they do not make a living out of competeing unless you have a serious sponsor. I would imagine most of those horses never go over 100, and they are sold to homes that are non-professional, that are never going to have the funding to go to the higher levels.

Any money in horses like most sports is made out of selling kit/lifestyle, to people with little or no aspiration to top level competition. They spent all that money on 2012, yet it has not increased participation of people in sport, especially women. It could be argued that from the results so far, investment at lower level, gets more of us off our bottoms and out doing. Which means more lessons and more kit, and of course you need a brand , lead by someone who has a smart horse and that where they get the money to buy one, probably from abroad.
2012 proved that investment in top athletes and venues does not filter down. Judy Murray has probably produced more champions working on her own than the whole of the LTA which has invested millions in different infinitives.
The British are excellent at shopping, that where they get the money from.

 

[ihatework]

I sorry its a market led economy. Top flight riders make their living from selling horses, lessons etc, they do not make a living out of competeing unless you have a serious sponsor. I would imagine most of those horses never go over 100, and they are sold to homes that are non-professional, that are never going to have the funding to go to the higher levels

Very true. But what is it do you think that drives the lessons/horse sales?
It’s competing in the public eye and getting yourself known. Competing is a riders advertising (in addition to being the part of horses that generally keeps them interested in the game!)

 

[ycbm]

So if I read you right, IHW, we are arguing over what it would be called, not whether it would exist.

You do seem to accept that, forgetting about what it's called, the lower levels can exist as a sport in its own right, fully financed, without the levels at the top. Yet it seems obvious to me that the levels at the top can't exist at all without the levels at the bottom.

If there weren't people competing at Novice in great numbers for whom that level is the pinnacle of their ambitions or ability, there would be nowhere for advanced horses to learn their trade. Or for professionals to showcase their young horses for sale.

And if there weren't people competing in vast numbers at 80/90/100, there wouldn't be the money for BE to exist at all.

 

[ycbm]

Apologies I had more important things to do than get into an argument with you.

Apology accepted. Next time could you refrain from calling me too blinkered to listen to your argument before you have time to say what it is

 

[ihatework]

Where have I said the lower levels couldn’t support themselves *scratcheshead*
They sure could. But the structure and opportunities/venues would not be as is offered via BE today. Part of the whole appeal is that Ann Smith on Bob the Cob can compete against WFP etc. It’s quite a unique sport in my mind and I stick to my guns that if the higher levels were not there BE as we know it would not exist.
Bit of a pointless argument though, given this was really about British breeding. I’m out

 

[ycbm]

You've already said above that the top riders don't use the grass roots levels. People competing up to 110 are mostly doing it for the self satisfaction, not to very occasionally compete against the top names on whose behalf they largely finance the whole sport.


This thread was about BE using funds supplied by lower level riders to support the breeders and riders of elite British horses. It seems pretty relevant to me.

 

[ihatework]

You've already said above that the top riders don't use the grass roots levels.

Please point out where I said that as I am now genuinely confused!

 

[ycbm]

Please point out where I said that as I am now genuinely confused!

I thought you were busy ?


Post 90

To quote a retired event rider ‘they have no desire to scrub around pre nervous’.

Pro elite riders don't waste their time below Novice unless they've not got decent experienced horses to ride. Pippa Funnel did one 100 and only 6 novice this year in approaching 100 entries.

 

[ihatework]

I thought you are busy ?


Post 90

Ahhh up to the old tricks I see. Interpreting something in your own way and missing everything else said!

I will explain it to you. A competitive pro generally has no great desires to spend their days doing PN. However they do it for a reason. Either the production of horses to sell to put dinner on the table, or the education of a horse that might go all the way. If they can’t even bare to do that they let the stable jockey ride it round the PN.
No where did I say pros don’t use the lower levels. In fact I actually said pro horses had to be bought up through the levels.

 

[honetpot]

I still have not seen why grassroots BE riders should fund British breeding. The chances of getting a British bred horse to the top levels are slim and the chances of them riding it are virtually non existent.
If the reason that grassroots exists is to support elite and provide riders with potential rides it should be explicitly stated as part as the membership package and should be voted on. I bet most BE members join so they can compete and if there was an alternative they would go else where.

 

[ycbm]

Ahhh up to the old tricks I see. Interpreting something in your own way and missing everything else said!

I will explain it to you. A competitive pro generally has no great desires to spend their days doing PN. However they do it for a reason. Either the production of horses to sell to put dinner on the table, or the education of a horse that might go all the way. If they can’t even bare to do that they let the stable jockey ride it round the PN.
No where did I say pros don’t use the lower levels. In fact I actually said pro horses had to be bought up through the levels.

I don't think I've missed anything, and you certainly used a quote which I believe was meant as I read it by the person who said it.

In general, they don't use the lower levels!

If you cheeck the records, elite Pro riders do not ride below Novice unless they have no other horses to ride, and many of them use work riders to ride their horses at that level too.

You used the example of the opportunity to compete against elite riders as a key reason why grass roots riders want to do BE and that BE at grassroots level would not be recognisable as BE if they weren't there. Since the opportunity to do that is so slim, I just can't see your argument, I'm sorry.

 

[ycbm]

I bet most BE members join so they can compete and if there was an alternative they would go else where.

I'm with you there HP. I don't believe the majority of BE80/90/100/novice riders are really that bothered whether we are competitive on a world stage at all, and certainly not to the extent that they would stop competing if we had no international riders.

 

[ihatework]

Agreed many use work riders at 90/100,
But there is a noticeable trend towards the elite riders riding their good young ones at 100 themselves. Maybe only once or twice, but they do.
If I had time I’d look up all the team GB riders and see what % had ridden at least one 100/5YO in the last 3 seasons.

Even the great AN, who never started a horse below novice, has been out 100 in recent seasons. I’m actually seeing many mid level pros utilise open 90, my friend does regularly, as do other names. But not the elites in general. 100 they do.