Buying horses from pro's for ametuer riders?

im not 100% i agree with pros giving horses the best start...certainly quite a lot of showjumpers ignore the flatwork ...but they do get the horses out and jumping..if you not a professional and not great at seeing a stride ( :-) ) then i think you need the flat work more than ever....if you have a good canter it makes life sooo much easier

plus some horses get 'spoilt' in terms of always being in exactly the right place to take off....if you are a really good amateur its not a problem of course
 
dieseldog said:
If I understood your post I'm sure I could agree or disagree with what you are saying. Who's cheating? Is someone getting pros to ride their horses in a comp and pretending that they are the amateur?
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I am saying that I am aware of show horse owners who will purchase horses from a professional, keep them at that professional's yard where they are schooled daily, turn up occasionally at weekends to sup G and T's with the professional ,while showing an interest in the horses even get professional to warm them up and then the owner hops on to take them in an amateur class, collect the rossette and smile in the horse and hound and declare how pleased they are being an amateur.

Following the rules....but I would call this not following the spirit of the rules ....misrepresentation and cheating.

PS I realise this is not a thread about showing but I am sure it happens in every discipline
 
Another perspective, antogonist and to some of the posts above - I bought a 4 year old, 2 years ago and for a number of reasons keep him at a SJ pro yard, atm he is spending time with another pro eventer (I don't want to event but we are getting extreme hacking practice!!) The Pro SJers now focus almost soley on producing youngsters who end up with a variety of end owners - Some other pro's of all disciplines who end up competing these horses at high levels and some who wouldn't have the ability to go to the top or who have wonderful temperaments, with amateurs. The amateur rider gets a very well started, mannerly and good horse with the ability to do what they want to do.

For me actively chosing this route was right I now have a beautifully started young horse, with enough ability (In fact probably too much ability - a bit wasted on me) wonderful manners and incredibly forgiving as he has developed loads of confidence and not been messed up by me!

It is so interesting to listen to what a pro's perspective is on what they are trying to get a horse to do - often trying to make the most of its ability and temperament by jumping, working or responding in a particular way. Then and only then can the horse's potential be really realised in whatever it future may be.

Antagonist if thats cheating I make no apology, to me its realising ones limitations in terms of time and abillity and not ruining a horse in the process.
 
Thanks for all your replies.

For people saying they would not buy something from a pro that was eventing at a high level or was established, neither would i. I would never be able to jump on something like that and do half as good a job as the previous jockey. I want soemthing that i can build a partnership with before we move up the levels. I am after a 4,5 possibly 6yo whos just got the groundings and has done and event or two so you know its not going to flip out when you take it out to parties etc.

Bit upset that ive come across as arrogant or presumtuous :( However, I stick with my veiws, and think we will be going to a pro first off to try and find a nicely started young horse :) Thanks for you veiws, made me think, but hasnt changed my opinion :p :)
 
help1 said:
Another perspective, antogonist and to some of the posts above - I bought a 4 year old, 2 years ago and for a number of reasons keep him at a SJ pro yard, atm he is spending time with another pro eventer (I don't want to event but we are getting extreme hacking practice!!) The Pro SJers now focus almost soley on producing youngsters who end up with a variety of end owners - Some other pro's of all disciplines who end up competing these horses at high levels and some who wouldn't have the ability to go to the top or who have wonderful temperaments, with amateurs. The amateur rider gets a very well started, mannerly and good horse with the ability to do what they want to do.

For me actively chosing this route was right I now have a beautifully started young horse, with enough ability (In fact probably too much ability - a bit wasted on me) wonderful manners and incredibly forgiving as he has developed loads of confidence and not been messed up by me!

It is so interesting to listen to what a pro's perspective is on what they are trying to get a horse to do - often trying to make the most of its ability and temperament by jumping, working or responding in a particular way. Then and only then can the horse's potential be really realised in whatever it future may be.

Antagonist if thats cheating I make no apology, to me its realising ones limitations in terms of time and abillity and not ruining a horse in the process.
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My initial comment was about honesty and openess.

Do your competitors expect to be competing against a horse that has been trained by an amateur, if so they will eventually become dispondent and be lost to the particular field of horsemanship what ever it may be.

Amateur on a professional horse, professional on a amateur horse, or amateur on a amateur horse...what are you? Do your fellow competitors know that?
 
As to openess and honesty I am entirely open and honest - amateur rider (I have a professional career unassociated with horses) riding a horse that has been started by a pro. But as I have stated this is about realising ones limitations and not ruining a horse in the process.

As to fellow competitors not entirely sure what your problem is? If you take that line of argument to the nth degree then surely one would also have to limit and describe the training one gets, support and advice from trainers (who one would asume are pros?) I spent my childhood competing on home produced (often difficult ponies and horses) and never had a problem competing against those who had professionally produced ones, although granted it was a long time ago!
 
I bought my youngster from a pro, she was producing him to jump and I do find that hes not great at getting himself out of trouble at a fence but she has done a very good job at backing him and he is starting his dressage career with me with some very good base work in place.
 
Have to say I re-read this thread with interest after leaving last night. I have to say that I am a little bit shocked at all the venom over this post and in bigboyrocky's defence if she wants to buy from a pro, then thats her business. OK, we have had a very, very positive experience, we have been lucky. We are on a pro eventers yard, have had loads of help and training and our mare has been kept in her routine. HOWEVER, said pro only got the mare to PN and never had a double clear out of her. My daughter has now taken the horse to Novice and has her first few points and has double clears on her record. Apart from a couple of times when she has been on holiday and we have asked YO to school the mare, my daughter has put the work in herself.

I have seen the flip side to this as another livery on our yard with a daughter the same age as my daughter bought an eventer from this pro. To be honest, both child and mother thought that as the horse had been professionally produced it would do all the work for them. They made great plans to get from BE90 to BE100 in 3 steps, culminating in a JRN later in the season. It all went horribly wrong and the animal has a terrible record and they know they will never sell it for what they paid for it, but they love the horse and have decided to make the most of it. Pleae bear in mind this girl had even more help than my daughter, its on the same yard and pro rider schooled it extensively as well.

I would say like with everything in life you get what you pay for, plus it pays to shop around. It does help that the pro rider in question is a petite lady, just like my daugther, with a penchant for riding mares sympathetically. I dont think you will be cheating if you buy from a pro, unless you just think its a short cut to success, which it generally is not. A lot of hard work will need to be put in, as just because it went well for a pro, it wont necessarily go well for an amateur. We dont regret the experience and would do so again, but only from this particular pro and her partner.
 
antagonist said:
My initial comment was about honesty and openess.

Do your competitors expect to be competing against a horse that has been trained by an amateur, if so they will eventually become dispondent and be lost to the particular field of horsemanship what ever it may be.

Amateur on a professional horse, professional on a amateur horse, or amateur on a amateur horse...what are you? Do your fellow competitors know that?
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I'm sorry Antagonist but I strongly agree with Help1 here, all of my horses have been in professional training for most of their life (Frodo for all of his ridden career!) and in no way I feel I am 'cheating'. It's still me riding down the centre line when it comes to competing!

In the same way that both amateurs and professionals can enter the very same classes, then surely a horse who is schooled half of the time by a top professional can also be shown by an amateur.
 
I've read the post without getting involved and I haven't seen 'venom' at the notion of buying from a pro, but I have seen (quiet rightly IMO) an objection to the OP's suggestions that she is above the limitations experienced by others in terms of riding style and ability.

But she's apologised for this, so no biggie :)

As for the 'derail' re: competing in amateur classes, it is so hard to draw a distinction in many circumstances, particularly for those not in full possession of the facts. Why is a housewife who spends all her time riding and trains regularly with a pro an amateur when another person working full-time and keeping their horse on livery with a pro is a 'cheat'? Who are we to impose such categories?
 
Megan2006 said:
I've read the post without getting involved and I haven't seen 'venom' at the notion of buying from a pro, but I have seen (quiet rightly IMO) an objection to the OP's suggestions that she is above the limitations experienced by others in terms of riding style and ability.

But she's apologised for this, so no biggie :)
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above the limitations experienced by others in terms of riding style and ability??? Im sorry but i did not say this...

'See ive never found this. Ive worked for a pro in the past and ridden many of his horses who are all at different levels, and also today at austins, and have not had this reaction. I think the difference however is how effective an ametuer is compared to a pro. I think most pro horses would put up just fine with a half decent rider, but i think effectiveness will be the key factor that splits the two.'

Im saying that imo its not the difference in position, but how effective us ametuers are compared to pros. In no way did i say i was above anyone else. Unless you were reffereing to something else i have said?
 
I would stick to my guns here, if a professional has trained the horse and continues to train the horse and an amateur has a lesser involment in the daily schooling of the horse, they should not be classed as amateurs.

In some discipline sucess is more dependent on rider ability on the day however in some disciplines (ie showing) a moderately competent rider could sit on a pre produced horse and be very sucessful...then wallet size rather than ability wins.

This is when people will become disallusioned this is when the grass routes of that discipline fades away.

In conclusion are they buying a professionally produced horse as a short cut to success in which case that success is somewhat hollow.

PS I am sure all the respondents that I have antagonised don't live more than two hours drive away from where the horse is kept as is the case of the example I am thinking about.
 
antagonist said:
In some discipline sucess is more dependent on rider ability on the day however in some disciplines (ie showing) a moderately competent rider could sit on a pre produced horse and be very sucessful...then wallet size rather than ability wins.

PS I am sure all the respondents that I have antagonised don't live more than two hours drive away from where the horse is kept as is the case of the example I am thinking about.
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I still don't agree. In the horse world wallet size rather than ability will always win, there are so many dressage riders who can afford to buy incredibly expensive, push button horses... there's nothing we can do about it, it's something we have to accept as part of the sport.

I do not live more than 2 hours away from my horse (well, I kind of moved countries to follow him ;) ) but I could easily be in that situation, in my home country dressage yards are so few and far in between that if I went back, I would be likely to end up somewhere 3 hours away from home and do it three times a week maximum. It is not something I am considering right now but it could happen in the future.

I genuinely can't see anything wrong in deciding to invest in professional schooling. Again I am thinking about my own example, I bought a 4 year old and produced him myself for the first few years and he was really good and we got to the point where he was better than me and I genuinely would have ruined him if I had not sought professional help. Now he can piaffe and do tempi changes and is starting passage and all these things are things that I could never have taught him, not to this standard anyway, because I wouldn't have had a clue. But I was still there every step of the way, just I felt happier in the knowledge that he wouldn't be ruined by trials and errors.

As help1 said it's all about understanding your own limits (or discovering that your horse's limits are apparently non-existent ;) )
 
I have bought my lovely new young horse from a pro. He has been a great buy *touch wood* and the pro has been so helpful and lovely. I have kept him on livery with her for the past 2 months and it has been brilliant to have her support to kick start our relationship together. I would definately consider buying a horse from a pro again, I don't see how it makes that much difference from buying from an amateur tbh unless it is an older more experienced horse that has only ever been ridden by a very good rider.
 
I think it really depends on the rider and how the horse has been brought on.

I know a couple of junior riders who have been very successful with dressage horses and eventers they bought from pros. But I have also heard some 'disaster stories'...
 
My Grandpa helped me buy a horse from Tony Newbury when I was 14, I had no intention of ever doing SJ to a high standard but Morny was the best PC horse going. I did everything with him, the only thing he wouldn't do was pony my shetland, so I had to ride the shetland and pony the horse!

I was totally overhorsed of course, 5' nothing on a 16.1 almost full tb, but the horse was such a gent that it didn't matter, and I have to say it was fun popping 5 bar gates rather than opening them!:D
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
I still don't agree. In the horse world wallet size rather than ability will always win, there are so many dressage riders who can afford to buy incredibly expensive, push button horses... there's nothing we can do about it, it's something we have to accept as part of the sport.

I do not live more than 2 hours away from my horse (well, I kind of moved countries to follow him ;) ) but I could easily be in that situation, in my home country dressage yards are so few and far in between that if I went back, I would be likely to end up somewhere 3 hours away from home and do it three times a week maximum. It is not something I am considering right now but it could happen in the future.

I genuinely can't see anything wrong in deciding to invest in professional schooling. Again I am thinking about my own example, I bought a 4 year old and produced him myself for the first few years and he was really good and we got to the point where he was better than me and I genuinely would have ruined him if I had not sought professional help. Now he can piaffe and do tempi changes and is starting passage and all these things are things that I could never have taught him, not to this standard anyway, because I wouldn't have had a clue. But I was still there every step of the way, just I felt happier in the knowledge that he wouldn't be ruined by trials and errors.

As help1 said it's all about understanding your own limits (or discovering that your horse's limits are apparently non-existent ;) )
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I think you have contradicted yourself, you said you disagree with me and then agreed with me that wallet does win.

Do we want the elitism to this degree or do we want to perserve an truely amateur accessable entry level?

I think where we disagree is what line do you draw, that the degree of professional involment in training a horse then tips that horse/ rider combination to being professional.

Don't take this as a personal attack on yourself but a hypothetical question

This is some thing the horse community needs to sort out. However, the economics of the industry is that money entering the industry by enthusiastic amateurs who are willing to buy expertise they do not themselves possess to earn sucess they do not deserve is what drives the economic wheels of the industry. But in my opinion is distroying areas of that industry.
 
bigboyrocky said:
I want soemthing that i can build a partnership with before we move up the levels. I am after a 4,5 possibly 6yo whos just got the groundings and has done and event or two so you know its not going to flip out when you take it out to parties etc.
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Totally agree with this, but I believe you said earlier that you wanted one that had done PN/N, this as you know will take more than an event or two, and would put a different perspective on things for me.

I would be happy to buy a backed horse from a pro but I wouldn't again buy one that had been competed. My mare had one result on her BE record (the only affil show she'd done), however after doing some extensive digging on the web following purchase I found some "interesting" unaffil results which had been witheld from me, and were very hard to track down as she'd been entered under her unaffil name. So what I thought I'd bought in actual fact wasn't. And it became all too apparent that she had various issues and great yawning gaps in her education Anyway, long story, and details are not important, but I wouldn't again want one that had done any competing with a pro.

I think in fairness that pure dressage horses are a different ball game to jumpers as I think it'd be very difficult to progress on a green horse if you're teaching both yourself and the horse at the same time. I believe for the more advanced movements you need to know how it feels before trying to teach it.
 
Yes sorry I did contradict myself (busy working..). I was trying to say that in this sport there will always be a huge influence - money, because money really can buy top horses - and I don't see anybody complaining about that, so why the attack on people who train/stable with professionals and not on those amateurs who buy themselves super horses?

But I don't think the other issue -- that of drawing the line between professional and amateur -- is so relevant as the classes are the same for both professionals and amateurs... I consider myself an amateur because I have a totally non-horsey job. But when I compete I have to compete against professionals. There are no reserved/separate classes!
 
Would I buy a youngster from a pro?
yes.

Would I buy an older produced horse from a pro?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I need something forgiving in to a fence, I do think DR horses are a different ball game though to SJ and eventers. I can get on a pro dressage horse and get a half decent tune out of it, but jumpers are much harder to ride. Of course I'm not saying my flat would be perfect, but it would be a darn sight neater than watching me trying to jump round on a sharp int. grade a! The advantage with dressage horses is that if they have been though the scales of training properly rather than having all the ricks rushed in to them is that they should be a well schooled, educated ride.
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
Yes sorry I did contradict myself (busy working..). I was trying to say that in this sport there will always be a huge influence - money, because money really can buy top horses - and I don't see anybody complaining about that, so why the attack on people who train/stable with professionals and not on those amateurs who buy themselves super horses?

But I don't think the other issue -- that of drawing the line between professional and amateur -- is so relevant as the classes are the same for both professionals and amateurs... I consider myself an amateur because I have a totally non-horsey job. But when I compete I have to compete against professionals. There are no reserved/separate classes!
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I am coming at this from the showing side of things when amateur classes are being highjacked by people I would consider professional although by the letter of the rules they are amateurs.

As someone who has got up a silly o'clock to take our amateur horses to shows, only for "amateurs on professional horses" to wipe the board. The branch of the industry need to get its house in order in order still to engage the grass roots.

I am sure in disciplines which rely on riders ability above the horse ability then this is not such an issue.
 
3 years ago, after competing successfully at CCI* on my mare I bought from the meat man (we taught each other) I bought a horse which had been competed by Laurence Hunt and then JP Sheffield. This horse had gone to CIC** level and had 35BE points. I have learnt so much since getting this horse. He is a complete schoolmaster, if I mess up he won't jump the jump, hence our results are a bit hit and miss. For me this doesn't matter I would rather get a poor result and learn from the experiance, then just ride a push button horse. I feel it is only in the last 3 months I have really learnt how to ride him XC (we had a lightbulb moment at Eland Lodge!), having been ridden by strong men, a 5'2" 8st female was always going to find him a challenge to hold XC, but with alot of trial and error we are finally getting there (bar the unfortunate blip at Hutton!!!). At first I was dissapointed by the results I got with Murphy, but over time I have realised the lessons im learning with him have more than made up for this.

Having said that I probably wouldn't buy a experianced horse from a pro again. I will probably go to somebody like Vere Phillips when I am next looking.

2 of my friends bought horses from male pros at the same time I bought Murphy. Neither of them have had much success. 1 friend was on the German Junior team (a very good rider!), and ended up spending ALOT of money on a just turned 6yo which had won all 3 novices it had ever entered with a well known UK based Austrailan pro. At the first event she took the horse to (a PN) it damaged a tendon. 18 months later she finally takes it eventing again, for the horse to refuse to go near the first XC fence (PN). Essentially the horse was produced too fast, damaging the tendon due to the workload at a young age. By the time it started eventing again it didn't want to know.

My second friend bought her horse from a strong male pro. She had bought a horse previously from a good amature, and had done well at intermediate with it, but intermediate was the horses level. She went to a pro to but a horse which would take her advanced. She bought a 7yo with Novice wins and a intermedaite XC clear. She has never got past the showjumping as she is eliminated every time. I recently saw her doing a 75cm unaffilliated SJ class on it (she didn't get placed!). These are both good riders, but it shows how these horses can be pushed, and be far less forgiving of mistakes. Pros have to make a living somehow, selling horses is often the way they do this, so they ride the horse to get the result, to sell it on for £££'s.
 
Antagonist - I think perhaps the ponies have a better system in showing as we have home produced classes which means doing it all yourself so that would exclude amateurs who have their horses produced for them but ride in the ring.

Though having said that in all other disciplines amateurs, home produced and professional compete in the same classes so I think it is just something people have to accept - that there are always going to people with more money or talent or opportunities than oneself, competition can never entirely be equalwith everyone in the same circumstances.

I can totally see why people get horses produced or schooled for them as it is easier and if you have a young horse then it might give it a better start. The best person to do this may not be the person who lives down the road so I can see why people might use someone who is two or three hours or more away.

I like doing everything myself and am not rich but then I am not so competitive so am willing to accept that by doing it myself i may not get the results that produced people get or it might take me much longer!
 
Hi, I know this is a bit of a tangent, but is the view that it is also not sensible to have a horse schooled or competed by a professional to 'bring the horse on' so to speak? Is this not beneficial or is the view that the horse will regress once the amateur is back on board. I have no problem with my trainer riding my horse whether it be schooling or occassionaly competing if I consider that I am not being clear enough when encountering a new movement or situation, and if I go on holiday I send my horses to them so that they can be ridden properly whilst I am away :)
 
I don't think so but it is probably useful if you are sending your horse away to be schooled for you to also have some lessons with the person doing the schooling before you take the horse home - so that they can give you some tips and also so you know how things have been asked to avoid confussion.

LJR said:
Hi, I know this is a bit of a tangent, but is the view that it is also not sensible to have a horse schooled or competed by a professional to 'bring the horse on' so to speak? Is this not beneficial or is the view that the horse will regress once the amateur is back on board. I have no problem with my trainer riding my horse whether it be schooling or occassionaly competing if I consider that I am not being clear enough when encountering a new movement or situation, and if I go on holiday I send my horses to them so that they can be ridden properly whilst I am away :)
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Christ, I can't believe I've done this but I've just waded through ALL the replies on this thread :o

So guess what, folks? I think this is just yet another of those tiresome grey areas where there is no right or wrong answer, and too many variables to deal with. BBR was perhaps a teensy bit over-enthusiastic in her original post but she's not vvery old and had just come away from a day's work experience with Austin, so enthusiasm is entirely understandable :) :) Equally, those who have first or second-hand experience of post-pro disasters, of which there are many, are understandably keen to voice their concerns and prevent BBR from breaking her heart and her Mum's bank balance all at the same time.

Surely, there are pros and cons? Potential pros: A well-selected, well-started young horse who knows his/her job, is confident without being ill-disciplined, and has some of the tools in the box to take forward to the next stage of development. Potential cons: Could be too used to a too-good jockey so insufficiently forgiving (but if you buy early enough you can probably get around this); could be unsound (but there are scrupulous and unscrupulous pros and amateurs); could be being shipped out as not good enough (but 1) Do you really want to compete at as high a level as the pro in question? and 2) this may not be the case at all - many pros rely on buying and selling to earn a crust and will sell ANY of their horses if the price is right); may be over-priced (almost certainly will be priced at upper end of the value as pros know what they have so it is true that you are unlikely to get a bargain); could become badly-behaved when leaving the discipline of the pro yard (true, but it should at least have been started properly andn it will be up to you to keep up the good work - personally I'd far rather buy a young horse that has had a decent start and learned the rules sympathetically but firmly than one which has trampled all over an over-indulgent amateur).

Sooooo, you go in with your eyes open, you pays your money and takes your choice. I suppose what has surprised me slightly is the strength of feeling on both sides of the debate when it seems to me to be fairly finely-balanced.

Lastly on the slight off piste debate started by antagonist: the issues you are raising really don't crop up in eventing (my sport) - they are largely, as far as I know, confined to showing. I can understand that it must be immensely frustrating to end up in the situation you describe but tbh, that's exactly why many of us don't do showing ;)
 
Well said - it depends on the pro and on the horse. Having bought from both amateur and pros in the past and was broadly happy with the horses. Have sent horses away to be schooled by 'pros' and not been impressed by the results, so I think it's like everything else - buyer beware. Test ride the horse (more than once if possible) and get it vetted. Most importantly go with your gut instinct. If something doesn't feel right then it probably isn't IMHO.

The biggest factor in buying any horse is the start it's had in life and the level of experience being appropriate to it's age - both of which you can usually assess in a good hour or so's viewing if you see it brought in from the field, tacked up, ridden and ride it yourself.
 
I have bought my 5yo mare from a pro eventer (3* level). yes, we know full well she is never going to make the top grade but then we would never be able to get there anyway due to time/money etc etc.

all i can say is this young horse is fantastic and is absolutely everything the rider said she was. yes we have had lots of lessons etc and are learning together but then again she is 5years old, what do you expect?! she has a fantastic forgiving temperment aand after my last horse it has really hit home that without a good temperment all the talent in the world wont get you anywhere wether its a pro's horse or not. for what its worth mine had only been out to one cr sj comp so not exactly done much at all but the riders belief in this horses temperment was absolutely bang on and within a few months we have been getting realy good results in byeh classes even though she isnt necessarily the right 'type' as she is a bit chunkier than the average in these classes.

as for the pros riding peoples horses for them, if you want to improve why the hell not?! its for the good of the horse and you as a rider to improve together and if that is your ambition then you use the tools available, its not all about winning rosettes you know, i'd much rather compete a level higher where i wasnt competitive so to speak and just get the enormous satisfaction from doing so.
 
As TD so eloquently put it, there is no right or wrong answer. And I really don't see the why it seems to be a "moral" issue at all - surely people have the right to spend their money as they see fit and ride what they want to ride?

Anyway, I digress . . . ;)

I do think, too, there is a big difference between a professional rider whose main profession is producing horses for other people to ride and one whose interests are primarily competitive and targeted towards winning at a high level.

The former, in my book, is interested in producing sound, sane young horses with thorough training and decent manners, and promoting them honestly as suitable for the appropriate job. Competing may be part of the deal if the horse stays around long enough, but usually as a means to an end. Generally such people are not competing at a particularly high level as, to a large extent, I think the two aims are mutually exclusive. After all, if a rider is on the road many days each month, then he/she is not riding the horses at home . . .

"Competition pros" are - not always but often, in my experience - the ones more inclined to "skip steps" and ride the horse with results in mind, rather than intentionally putting it into learning situations and building the "whole horse". I've also found, personally, that many such yards are surprisingly complacent about things like horses not standing still to be mounted, or not tying up, or even being actively unpleasant, perhaps because they are so used to pandering to more sensitive, talented, established horses.

I worked for a very good showjumper at one point, starting young horses, and every time I "missed" jumping on one of the more advanced horses we joked about it being the "child/adult (a novice amateur division) schooling ride". I was in that person's program precisely because my area of speciality was making up horses the average person could ride. My boss's favourite reminder to me was, "Who cares if you can ride it?" Even though we were definitely a professional program, we specialised in horses - of varying levels of ability - that would do for the "average" amateur.

As for horses "on the way down" that's so individual. Some horses drop down a level or two very well, some not so much. I don't think in such a case the horse's regular rider is the best judge, particularly if there's pressure to get something back out of a horse that's not worked out according to plan . . .

I think buying "through" a professional is very different than buying "from" one. The best deals I've seen are when the pro effectively works for the buyer, either as an agent to assess prospective horses or, even better, as someone who will be involved long term and therefor will be held accountable for the future of the partnership. This can work very well for an ambitious rider, looking to buy a horse for a quick and relatively painless ascent.

As with all deals though, why is the seller the one who is supposed to be responsible for the outcome? Of course, people have to tell the truth about a horse and give an honest opinion when asked but there is no way a seller can have much of an opinion on a prospective buyer's (suit)ability on the strength of seeing them ride the horse once or twice. Not to mention that buyers often don't want to hear a seller's honest opinion.;) Surely the assessment of the horse in question and it's suitability for the rider is best judged by someone on the purchasing side of the equation?
 
MegaBeast said:
Totally agree with this, but I believe you said earlier that you wanted one that had done PN/N, this as you know will take more than an event or two, and would put a different perspective on things for me.

I would be happy to buy a backed horse from a pro but I wouldn't again buy one that had been competed. My mare had one result on her BE record (the only affil show she'd done), however after doing some extensive digging on the web following purchase I found some "interesting" unaffil results which had been witheld from me, and were very hard to track down as she'd been entered under her unaffil name. So what I thought I'd bought in actual fact wasn't. And it became all too apparent that she had various issues and great yawning gaps in her education Anyway, long story, and details are not important, but I wouldn't again want one that had done any competing with a pro.

I think in fairness that pure dressage horses are a different ball game to jumpers as I think it'd be very difficult to progress on a green horse if you're teaching both yourself and the horse at the same time. I believe for the more advanced movements you need to know how it feels before trying to teach it.
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I said PN/N Max (prefer somethng that had just done an intro or two, but would consider soemthing PN/N if everything else was right) :) :)
 
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