Calling all hoof experts

[Miss_Millie]

Can anyone give a hint as which track livery is being referred to? Initial letter of the yard, maybe?

I have my suspicions, but may be wrong.

There was a whole post about them earlier this year, when a new member shared their experience and what happened to their horse when they liveried there.

 

[holeymoley]

Can anyone give a hint as which track livery is being referred to? Initial letter of the yard, maybe?

I have my suspicions, but may be wrong.

From what I've seen they seem to work very closely with G track livery.

 

[Tiddlypom]

There was a whole post about them earlier this year, when a new member shared their experience and what happened to their horse when they liveried there.

Thank you.

I thought that it might well be them.

 

[irishdraft]

certain aussie farrier? who?

 

[Follysmum]

Quoted
Worst of all for me though is that they do not conduct themselves professionally. The track livery who promotes their methods made a post about 'karma' when a farrier she argued with online got injured recently. To me that is completely unacceptable, even if you don't share the same views as someone, you should not mock that they got hurt on your professional page.


This childlike behaviour is what totally put me off following their Facebook page. Also videos of her putting makeup on

 

[ponyparty]

I’m sure it was a Mark Johnson podcast I was listening to recently in which he or Matt said that often horses get better despite what we do to them, not because of it. I would argue that is the case with this ridiculous trimming theory.

 

[paddy555]

Not an expert so just musing. It can’t be denied that the approach of the track livery currently advocating this method has managed to bring about a return to soundness in several horses with fairly awful feet who this hadn’t been the case with their previous regime. A lot of the farrier work on them doesn’t look great so can understand how seeing that on a regular basis may lead one to start tarring all farriers with the same brush if you’re continually seeing the worst of their work.

As a lot of these horses have a complete overhaul of their diet & management as well as a change in their trim approach I guess it’s hard to say how much contribution each individual element is having. (Well I mean obviously it’s the combination off all elements together)

I suppose there’s then the question that the vast majority of laminitis cases that end up going down this road are the ones traditional methods haven’t worked for whereas clearly there’s a large number of horses traditional methods DO work for. (Although I still don’t agree with shoes for “support” when there’s some fantastic hoof boot & pad solutions out there although can appreciate not an option for all horses & all owners) The question would be WHY do things go so badly wrong in some horses and not in others? Is it a case of lack of competence / lack of experience by the trimmer/ farrier, wrong diet, wrong management? Or a little bit of all these things?

As I’ve had a horse go to Rockley I’m vaguely familiar with the theory of not chopping toe off where you’ve got a weak back of foot to avoid laming horse/ not trimming past the white line / that if you make improvements in management that give you a better angle of growth not rushing to take the toe off won’t ruin that healthier growth and I personally know a decent number of horses this has worked for. (Will admit my Welsh D always tended towards an unideal foot shape in terms of toe length in front but he had PPID and my own research suggested that can be a contributing factor.)

Obviously it’s not an ideal situation long term in a foot that’s not recovering from pathology/ it’s definitely not a foot shape we should be aiming for in a healthy foot as of course the way it affects breakover could cause compensations elsewhere in the body over time. (Although if it’s a temporary thing whilst growing out damage it’s probably not going to cause lasting issues)

I’m not a member of the group in question but from what people who are have told me / what I’ve seen shared I’d agree with another poster’s assessment that it’s a mix of useful stuff and nonsense (eg I don’t agree with the assertion that horses on a hay only diet won’t be at risk of deficiencies) and that it does seem a bit culty (Although I’ve deffo sat laughing around a campfire joking about being in a sinister barefoot cult before so I probably shouldn’t judge on that!)

I don't think anyone is too unhappy about the track idea. There are 3 main problems to my mind

firstly is the toe chopping. The problem seems to be laminitics (from what I have read so far) and duck feet. This is nothing like Rockley leaving the toes (which were never that long in their pics) until the back of t he foot beefs up. This problem is massively long duck feet. The entire wedge is left. I was very shocked when I saw some of their pics advocating this and praising such a trim.

In relatively normal feet "toe chopping" can only sound emotive. "bring the toes back with trimming and working on preventing the feet running forward" doesn't sound to be such an exciting headline. TP posted an excellent pic of failing to do this.

Next problem is that no one can criticise them. The only place is on their FB groups and I'm sure you would get slung off with a lot of abuse hurled at you. That means they can hide behind their SM unchallenged.

Third problem is the cult and this is the most dangerous. We went through this 25 years ago with Strasser. Her nonsense lasted so long and horses got damaged simply because of the cult. This cult is the same the only difference was with Strasser those trying to stop it were just ordinary horse owners. Now we have experienced farriers with good reputations as far as BF trimming goes confirming it is wrong. So who do we think is right?


Most of the followers have little idea. They can comment on living conditions/feed and management in the way we do on here. A lot of that is commonsense or posters own personal methods. Few of them understand the intricacies of trimming. Of a good hoof, or a bad one or one on which the trimmer has had to compromise for whatever reason for the horse's welfare. Even less have experience of trimming laminitics.
Then there is the problem of their leader who has to be supported against attack and praised at all costs. They have, technically, no idea if their leader is right or wrong but that is of no consequence. Go on their FB group as a newbie, say the right things and the followers will make you very welcome. You will be one of them, you won't feel lonely any longer but part of the "gang"

Finally of course they are producing "trained" trimmers.

 

[Follysmum]

Just asking for a “friend” and generally just interested
The people that run this track system
Are they qualified at anything
Nutritional or horses hoof care ?

 

[FieldOrnaments]

There's a post on the TPW group now of the feet of a horse owned by someone following the 'method' who says they have done all the challenges (15 and 10 days seems silly, hoof rehab takes months if not years) which are really quite horrifying.
(I am horrifically nosy, so I was prompted to rejoin from this thread).
Not going to post a screenshot from a closed group however.
but the group is called The Phoenix Way: Path 2 Hoof Health
I'm far, far from a hoof expert and more than happy to leave it in the hands of a qualified farrier but I just can't imagine the forces higher up the limb from having such long toes can be good, not to mention comfortable, for an animal as heavy as a horse. yes every horse is going to have its own set point of hoof shape, balance etc and interfering too much isn't going to be good but in a human-made environment - where horses can't self trim and travel huge distances to wear their feet down naturally, and due to supplemental feeding etc they can grow faster than a wild horse's anyway -I think leaving with no attempt at managing the toe growth is wrong.
It's almost opposite to Strasser in that that appeared to be trying to fit every horse's hooves into a very narrow 'ideal' shape whereas this is basically giving the feet (well, the toes and only the toes!!!!) free rein to find their own natural point regardless of the knock on effects of doing so on the rest of the body.

tl;dr just not convinced TPW has thought through that dragging persian slipper hooves about isn't nice for the animal.

(Again, not sure this says quite what I am trying to. But hopefully gives an idea of what the issues with the TPW 'method' might be).

edited for clarity